[UPD - 21 MAY] Closed Alpha - Feedback

[Commissar Caligula_]

This thread is for feedback from the recipients of the closed alpha to tell us their thoughts on the mod and how it looks and feels.
We'd like you to address the UI, the battle balancing, the unit descriptions and the unit models themselves and anything else you can think of.

To everyone else, DO NOT request a copy of the mod from either team members, or people who have been given access. You won't be given access, and if we find out about it we will likely blacklist you from future versions.

[Gamersville101]

Awesome, considering this is a public thread are we allowed to share pictures to help describe the feedback?

[Gamersville101]

Also i noticed an error in the ui?

checkout surreals video at 1:11
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bxQ...SurrealBeliefs

The ui next to the unit cards sort of has a blank area? where a unit card should be but its just an extended bit of UI?
Cheers!

[Commissar Caligula_]

Also i noticed an error in the ui?

checkout surreals video at 1:11
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bxQ...SurrealBeliefs

The ui next to the unit cards sort of has a blank area? where a unit card should be but its just an extended bit of UI?
Cheers!

That happens in vanilla.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Gamersville101]

awesome cool, just never noticed it before :p

[Drag0]

First of all, great job! I'm not in the lucky group that received the closed alpha, can I post here what I think about units seen in the videos?

[Mr.Jox]

Sure

[Drag0]

Thank you. All units are very good, I see a lot of quality and details. I'll post some little things that I would change.
1) I don't like so much the berserker style of Dale captains, I would prefer them with cloak, sword and shield.
2) Why Laketown guard's spear is so short? And if you want more details add a scimitar on their waist.
3) Why not Laketown archers?
4) Pelargir marines are too anonymous, add more details, more gondorian shields and add representative wings on his helmets.
5) Gondor citadel guard is great, but could be perfect with a little detail: Let see a bit of armor, on the back, curving a little the cloak. You can see this detail in the movie, when Denethor meet Boromir in Osgiliath.
6) Too long pikes for fountain guards, and too large lateral extremity on their pikes. Add swords on their waist.
7) Gondor cavalry without infantry shield. Like we see in the movie.
8) Gondor cavalry captain could be like a citadel guard but without cloak, like we see in the movie.
9) Consider add citadel guard cavalry
10) Add more helmet variety for isengard, mostly for the captain.

Thank you, kind regards and good job!

[alphasquad]

Really enjoy the Alpha release, so far this mod is absolutly beautiful; great ui, units models well polished, and the New units created are awesome! However, here i found some personal opinions about how i think the mod can be improve:
-more details on the horses, especially on the head;
-the new units created like the vineland infantry lacks of colour on the helmets;
-rhun's swordsmen should have shimitar like shown in the unit's card than a straight longsword;
-the knights of the silver swan need to have all a numenorean helmet than a medieval chainmail on top of the head. You can also add variation in them;
-bardings need to have all gloves;
-more details on the low tier units like spear militia, especially on the bodies, for example adding dirt and small features.
For what is balancing tests, here are the problems:
-uruk-hai infantry: more attack, less defence, larger units scales (120 uruk hai against 80 men) less armour;
-dragon's skin: less defence, less attack more armour-piercing damage and less standard damage;
-haradrim swordsmen: more attack, more defence more armour more AP damage and less standard damage;
-gondor cavalry should be considered like shock and not like spear cav, switching between spear to sword in prolong melee.
This is what i found for now, i might as well have to write something else but keep in mind these are just improvement, the main work is absolutely amazing! Waited for an entire year to play this, thank you so much!


Inviato dal mio iPad utilizzando Tapatalk

[♔atthias♔]

Thank you. All units are very good, I see a lot of quality and details. I'll post some little things that I would change.
1) I don't like so much the berserker style of Dale captains, I would prefer them with cloak, sword and shield.
2) Why Laketown guard's spear is so short? And if you want more details add a scimitar on their waist.
3) Why not Laketown archers?
4) Pelargir marines are too anonymous, add more details, more gondorian shields and add representative wings on his helmets.
5) Gondor citadel guard is great, but could be perfect with a little detail: Let see a bit of armor, on the back, curving a little the cloak. You can see this detail in the movie, when Denethor meet Boromir in Osgiliath.
6) Too long pikes for fountain guards, and too large lateral extremity on their pikes. Add swords on their waist.
7) Gondor cavalry without infantry shield. Like we see in the movie.
8) Gondor cavalry captain could be like a citadel guard but without cloak, like we see in the movie.
9) Consider add citadel guard cavalry
10) Add more helmet variety for isengard, mostly for the captain.

Thank you, kind regards and good job!

8 no let them have shields for more realistic chavalry
and it look more uniform whit the infantry wich I find better looking IMHO ofcourse
but it is up to the team to decide

[Maestro1]

Thank you. All units are very good, I see a lot of quality and details. I'll post some little things that I would change.
1) I don't like so much the berserker style of Dale captains, I would prefer them with cloak, sword and shield.

I believe this was the choice of the Dale Artist. At the moment the officers don't have that much priority, but it is worthwhile to note that the current shape of the sword is that which is shown in the hobbit trilogy.

2) Why Laketown guard's spear is so short? And if you want more details add a scimitar on their waist.

The Laketown Guards came to us perfectly via the hobbit films. They had spears no longer than they have in our mod and they did not have scimitars. Worth mentioning is that the Laketown Guard uses (technically, so from balancing point of view) a glaive, to add to the fact that the shape of the blade of the spear is so big that it could be used for hacking as well as thrusting.

3) Why not Laketown archers?

Dale already has many different archer battalions and would not require yet another. Also there is no indication that the Laketown men, few in number, had (or required) any archer compartments.

4) Pelargir marines are too anonymous, add more details, more gondorian shields and add representative wings on his helmets.

Wings and feathers on the helmet cannot be found anywhere for the men of Lebennin. They are a TATW thing, nothing more, nothing less. We have not opted for that way. If our mod is out for two years or so, the next generation would consider our Lebennin Marines to be the only accurate. Both is incorrect. Also we do not want them to be looking too elite. They are tier 2, no higher. Hence the average armour. Their completed entities, having armour, helmet, large shield, sword and javelin, is what makes them stronger than the regular tier 2, thus making them fine. And for all fiefdom units goes: they should be unique, not just another soldier cohort with a tree padded or carved somewhere on their armour or clothes.

5) Gondor citadel guard is great, but could be perfect with a little detail: Let see a bit of armor, on the back, curving a little the cloak. You can see this detail in the movie, when Denethor meet Boromir in Osgiliath.

I am not sure to what detail you are referring.

6) Too long pikes for fountain guards, and too large lateral extremity on their pikes. Add swords on their waist.

Though the swords to the waist might be a good idea, the spear (which is what you get when decreasing length) is too short and the longspear is a too aggressive weapon, considering the Fountain Guards to be defenders pur sang. Have a look at how Gil-Galad wields his longspear. You'll see that there is more offence to it than defence.

7) Gondor cavalry without infantry shield. Like we see in the movie.

In the movies, the Gondor cavalry charged Osgiliath as no more than arrow fodder. In our game, they are a tier 3 cavalry unit thus needing adequate defence to be more than arrow fodder. Especially considering the many ranged battalions the evilmen from the south and east field.

8) Gondor cavalry captain could be like a citadel guard but without cloak, like we see in the movie.

The only real captain for Gondor Cavalry seen in the movies was Faramir charging Osgiliath. He didn't have a cloak.

9) Consider add citadel guard cavalry

Jezus, that would remove practically the only weakness Gondor has: hardly any cavalry. Let them suffer with only one regular option (that does not come until tier 3) and one very limited tier 4.

10) Add more helmet variety for isengard, mostly for the captain.

At the moment Isengard is not under development. Isengard's captain had a different helmet compared to the regular soldiers but as stated earlier, captains are not as important as the regular soldiers at this moment

[Maestro1]

Pardon my double post, but since this post handles a different topic than the last one, I went for this

Really enjoy the Alpha release, so far this mod is absolutly beautiful; great ui, units models well polished, and the New units created are awesome! However, here i found some personal opinions about how i think the mod can be improve:
-more details on the horses, especially on the head;
-the new units created like the vineland infantry lacks of colour on the helmets;
-rhun's swordsmen should have shimitar like shown in the unit's card than a straight longsword;
-the knights of the silver swan need to have all a numenorean helmet than a medieval chainmail on top of the head. You can also add variation in them;
-bardings need to have all gloves;
-more details on the low tier units like spear militia, especially on the bodies, for example adding dirt and small features.
For what is balancing tests, here are the problems:
-uruk-hai infantry: more attack, less defence, larger units scales (120 uruk hai against 80 men) less armour;
-dragon's skin: less defence, less attack more armour-piercing damage and less standard damage;
-haradrim swordsmen: more attack, more defence more armour more AP damage and less standard damage;
-gondor cavalry should be considered like shock and not like spear cav, switching between spear to sword in prolong melee.
This is what i found for now, i might as well have to write something else but keep in mind these are just improvement, the main work is absolutely amazing! Waited for an entire year to play this, thank you so much!


Inviato dal mio iPad utilizzando Tapatalk

-Horse details have not yet been fully fleshed out.
-The vineland guards are meant to sort of blend in with vineyards. More colour means less camouflage and coloured metal is a no-go for more hideous units as it reflects in the sun thus instantly betraying your position.
-Rhûn's Dragon's Skin is planned to wield maces in stead of swords which will add to the aggressiveness and makes them, together with halberds for the other Rhûn unit, the Dragon's Skin, stand out from the regular sword and spear choices of the Free Peoples' armies.
-The Knights of the Silver Swan don't need anything. They should be maneuverable horsemen, not slow metal tanks. Wings is not particularly the most helpful element for aerodynamics.
-Bardings may need them. I am not sure. Though on hand should be enough as well since no one would wear gloves if they don't do anything useful
-The lower tier units may need some more detail though I think they have already enough. In the end it it adds to their entity as a low tier unit if they don't have as much details as a higher tier unit.
-Uruk-hai are of a different race. At this moment the mod mainly has two factions, Gondor and Dale, the former being 75% Northmen, the latter 100%. We have not yet detailed races' differences on unit size and morale because there was no need to until now and we had many other things to test. At least we have a properly working balancing system which can easily implement such differentiations. That is the most important thing now: a solid base from which to launch our battle mod to greatness.
-Haradrim swordsmen have been removed from the roster. The haradrim look obviously does come back in other units but since no one can make swords out of desert sand with sparse iron supplies, they have been removed as swordsmen and will have spears or bows in future.
-Gondor cavalry does not have a long and large lance and thus is not shock cavalry. Their weapon is shorter than that of the Rhovanion Regents and the Swan Knights that are shock cavalry.

I hope to have provided you with adequate explanations regarding our choices ,to your questions

[Drag0]

1) Ok
2) In this picture you can see the difference beetween laketown spear in the mod and in the movie. In the second picture you can se on the soldier's waist a scimitar, could be a sword, but for the curved handle y think that is a scimitar



3) Ok
4) Ok
5) Here you have the picture with the detail

6) Ok, all you say it's ok, but visually I don't like a fountain guard with a pike long as the uruk-hai one.
Another thing, uruk-hai pikes must be black and with a hook on the end.
8) We have also an offier with Faramir. You can see in the picture

7-9) Could be a compromise a gondorian cavalry without shield (less defense) but with spears switching to sword in melee (more attack) and a citadel cavalry with shield (more defense) and only spears without switching (less attack).
10) Ok

Thanks

[Sk1p56]

Et Earello Endorenna utulien
Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn'
Ambar-metta

Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come.
In this place I will abide, and my heirs,
Unto the ending of the world

Home is behind the world ahead.
And there are many paths to tread.
Through shadow to the edge of night,
Until the stars are all alight...

Mist and shadow,
Cloud and shade,
All shall fade...
All shall fade...

Far Over the Misty Mountains Cold,
To Dungeons Deep and Caverns Old,
We must away ere break of day
To find our long-forgotten gold.

The Pines were Roaring on The Heights,
The Winds were Moaning in the Night,
The Fire was Red, it Flaming Spread,
The Trees Like Torches Blazed with Light.

LOTS OF SCREENSHOTS

I'm in shock another day, no words...

P.S
I edited data pack. I changed some values and now there is 90% chance for combat animation so battles are really bloooooooody. I wrote somewhere that I love the show.

[Commissar Caligula_]

We tried adding swords to the waists of some units like spear infantry, but we'd have to make a model that is sword+accessory melded together, so didn't have enough time to do it.

Uruk-Hai, Easterlings, Haradhrim and Dwarves are a WIP and weren't actually planned to be in the pack really, I just added them because they'd been modelled ages ago.

Horses will get Horse Armour soon, for the low low price of $2.50

Edit: Three bugs to remind myself of. Fountain Guard's have no swords, Gondor has the wrong countdown UI and Swan Knight officers need sword/shield animation.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Chaman]

As a video viewer as well I'd like to input some thoughts. Most of which seem to already have been addressed.

IE Horse armour. Also giving the gondor captains that Faramir helmet. Then there are things I assume are just part of the WIP IE The Uruk pikes.

Overall the units look incredible. The Gondor infantry couldn't get any better. I also love the direction of the Dale soldiers.

As for the fountain guards they look good. It's pretty hard to say how they should act. As pikes or spearmen, especially as we didn't see them in combat.

Also interested about the direction of the swan knights. I thought these (pictured below) were the official film adaptation of the swan knights. One that was a personal favourite of mine. They really look like heavy cavalry and are extremely distinctive with the royal blue colouring. This version also stays true to the description of the knight's crest. 'They marched under a banner 'silver upon blue', which bore a 'a white ship like a swan upon blue water'.


This was surprising as it seemed that the unit card showed a unit faithful to the one above.



One thing I noticed in both this mod and in 1212 is that the archers seem to bug and unnecessarily hold their bow drawn and do not release. I wonder if this is to do with the alteration of the ranges of the bowmen. Atilla and Rome both had very short ranges for archer units, possibly for this reason. Maybe it's just an Attila issue that I have never properly noticed in vanilla.

[Gamersville101]

Hey Caligula,

would love for this just to be part of the mod
**and now there is 90% chance for combat animation **

[wolfBTM]

As said by Smaug: "You think you can deceive me, Barrel-Rider? You have come from Lake Town! This is some sort of scheme hatched between these filthy dwarves and those miserable tub-trading Lakemen, those snivelling cowards with their Longbows and Black Arrows! Perhaps it is time I paid them a visit!"

This implies that Smaug recognizes Laketown for their longbows, and this could be evidence that the Laketown guard had an archer component. Also, given their defensive location, I find the fact that they wouldn't have archers to be unlikely. That said, the faction of Dale might not need the unit.

[wolfBTM]

By the way, the units look fantastic so far. I'll give feedback as I test things more and I will put units in 1v1 for testing balance.

[Commissar Caligula_]

One thing I noticed in both this mod and in 1212 is that the archers seem to bug and unnecessarily hold their bow drawn and do not release. I wonder if this is to do with the alteration of the ranges of the bowmen. Atilla and Rome both had very short ranges for archer units, possibly for this reason. Maybe it's just an Attila issue that I have never properly noticed in vanilla.

That is because they have a long reload time between shots, not some kind of bug with the game. Our reload times are actually shorter than they are in vanilla Attila.