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Thread: When are the Skaven coming?

  1. #1

    Default When are the Skaven coming?

    I know I know. No one here knows when the Skaven invasion is coming.

    For some reason, I'm so excited/anxious to see this faction implemented. It is going to be so fun lobbing disease bombs, setting up rat sniper teams, running down spearmen with Rat Ogres, listening to the creepy sound effects, ...

    Come on CA. I'm ready...take my money!

  2. #2

    Default Re: When are the Skaven coming?

    I think what I'm excited the most regarding the Skaven is how they're gonna voice-act them (they better get Skaven voice and accents right, this is of grave importance)

  3. #3
    The Holy Pilgrim's Avatar In Memory of Blackomur
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    Default Re: When are the Skaven coming?

    Pfft. This again? When will you guys learn: rat people are a myth! You better be careful spreading heresy like that. The witch hunters will get you.

  4. #4

    Default Re: When are the Skaven coming?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Holy Pilgrim View Post
    Pfft. This again? When will you guys learn: rat people are a myth! You better be careful spreading heresy like that. The witch hunters will get you.
    Exactly. You guys have been spending too much time talking with those Sewer Patrol blokes and their vicious but tiny dogs.
    Forward, march!

  5. #5

    Default Re: When are the Skaven coming?

    "All decent folk find the common rat repulsive. Harbinger of disease, it scavenges on our waste-heaps and frightens our children. How immeasurably worse then is the foul Skaven - standing on its hindlegs in foul parody of a human. Rats as tall as man, and blessed with the most vile intellect and cunning. They are the dark side of our souls, come to destroy us for our sins."
    +++ Albrecht of Nuln. Burned at the stake, IC 1301 for pernicious declamation[1] +++

  6. #6
    ♘Top Hat Zebra's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: When are the Skaven coming?

    Im very hesitant about the Skaven.

    They're awesome, but given the current state of the game, with such tiny unit sizes and inadequate underground gameplay, I feel like they're going to end up being the most poorly represented race out of them all.


    Imagine a massive Skaven horde coming to destroy you cities, composed of... 3000 ratmen.
    "Rajadharma! The Duty of Kings. Know you: Kingship is a Trust. The King is the most exalted and conscientious servant of the people."

  7. #7
    Påsan's Avatar Hva i helvete?
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    Default Re: When are the Skaven coming?

    Unit sizes are about the same as they have always been. In tabletop you'd call an army of 200 rats huge.

  8. #8

    Default Re: When are the Skaven coming?

    Quote Originally Posted by Påsan View Post
    Unit sizes are about the same as they have always been. In tabletop you'd call an army of 200 rats huge.

    Not in the lore though, for sure. What was said about the current state of the game and Skaven is true, they will be and poorly represented. If there's an equivalent of WW2 USSR brute-forcing numbers to victories in Warhammer it applies more to Skaven than anyone else. They were numbers reliant, only few clans employed different means (Skryre with warpstone technology and they aren't the most successful Skaven clan out there)

  9. #9

    Default Re: When are the Skaven coming?

    There have been mods which successfully implemented unit sizes up to 400 men per unit without many issues.

    I'm sure CA could do the same given that it's their game and they don't have to wait for proper mod tools
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  10. #10

    Default Re: When are the Skaven coming?

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Arcturus Mengsk View Post
    There have been mods which successfully implemented unit sizes up to 400 men per unit without many issues.

    I'm sure CA could do the same given that it's their game and they don't have to wait for proper mod tools
    Could you please link me?

  11. #11

    Default Re: When are the Skaven coming?

    Honestly, I don't think they exist.

  12. #12

    Default Re: When are the Skaven coming?

    Well, I don't mean ALL the units. One prominent example is DeI for Rome 2, which had units that numbered 400 men.

    I haven't played it in a while though so I don't know if the newest version still has those. The unit behaved normally in battle and moved around just as well, with no pathfinding problems. Of course there were problems with loading those in transports or manning walls, but that's why I said CA can make those fit.

    The only problem was that it might be too much for some systems to handle!

    Another example that comes to mind was Darth Mod for Empire Total war which gave the Native American tribes Huge unit sizes compared to the rest of the world.

    If modders can do it, CA can do it too, it's a matter of developer will not if it's possible to have the numbers!
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  13. #13
    ♘Top Hat Zebra's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: When are the Skaven coming?

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Arcturus Mengsk View Post
    There have been mods which successfully implemented unit sizes up to 400 men per unit without many issues.

    I'm sure CA could do the same given that it's their game and they don't have to wait for proper mod tools
    Not in Warhammer there aren't. Going above 200 men in a unit causes a crash for some reason. It could be changed in earlier games to 1000 men per unit if you wanted, but not anymore.


    This is already a problem with the Orcs and Goblins and the undead. Zombies, Skeletons, Goblins, they should all have very large unit sizes in order to be properly balanced.

    But none of those compare with Skaven. Skaven armies are basically unending, millions and millions. Obviously that can't be portrayed in Warhammer, but it's rather jarring when, in Attila, a German army of 40,000 men sacks Constantinople, while in Warhammer, the endless scourge of ratmen have less than 8000 troops in a 40v40 battle.
    "Rajadharma! The Duty of Kings. Know you: Kingship is a Trust. The King is the most exalted and conscientious servant of the people."

  14. #14

    Default Re: When are the Skaven coming?

    The Zombie and Goblin Units are much larger than e.g. Ironbrakers, Black Orks etc.


    But Whats the use to have 500 Goblins in a Unit and more than 40 Units per Army when the FPS goes down even on a high End PC and the game isn't playable anymore?

  15. #15
    ♘Top Hat Zebra's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: When are the Skaven coming?

    Basically every major overhaul for all of the Total War games always increases unit sizes quite a bit, so it's clearly a popular choice. The point of increasing unit sizes is, firstly, immersion and scale of battles. It looks better and it feels better. It also allows more variable balancing, allowing actual human (Or Skaven) wave tactics. More specifically to Warhammer, it would allow better balancing for monsters and artillery and magic. A giant could really kills hundreds upon hundreds of men on it's own, and still be balanced. Comet of Cassadora, rather than knocking down a few dozen men, could obliterate hundreds of troops and still be balanced.


    Zombie and goblin units are not much larger at all than elite units from other factions. The largest units in vanilla are 160 men I believe, which was the standard unit size in earlier games by the way, and the elite units are generally somewhere around 80-100, yes?

    If the Skaven armies follow the current pattern, then we can assume their units will be about 160. So at the absolute maximum, a single Skaven army will be 3041 Skaven. Compare that to Dwarfs, who, at maximum, have 2281.

    So the difference between a Dwarf army, where every single warrior is extremely valuable and difficult to replace due to low birthrates, and a Skaven army, where the entire strategy is to swarm the opposition with your infinite numbers, is, at the maximum, 760 soldiers.

    It's just unimpressive, the scale is far too small, especially for Warhammer. I've almost never been outnumbered by more than a few hundred soldiers. It's extremely rare for me to fight battles at 2:1 odds, whereas in the older titles I frequently found myself outnumbered by three or four troops for every one of mine.
    "Rajadharma! The Duty of Kings. Know you: Kingship is a Trust. The King is the most exalted and conscientious servant of the people."

  16. #16

    Default Re: When are the Skaven coming?

    Quote Originally Posted by ♘Top Hat Zebra View Post
    Basically every major overhaul for all of the Total War games always increases unit sizes quite a bit, so it's clearly a popular choice. The point of increasing unit sizes is, firstly, immersion and scale of battles. It looks better and it feels better. It also allows more variable balancing, allowing actual human (Or Skaven) wave tactics. More specifically to Warhammer, it would allow better balancing for monsters and artillery and magic. A giant could really kills hundreds upon hundreds of men on it's own, and still be balanced. Comet of Cassadora, rather than knocking down a few dozen men, could obliterate hundreds of troops and still be balanced.


    Zombie and goblin units are not much larger at all than elite units from other factions. The largest units in vanilla are 160 men I believe, which was the standard unit size in earlier games by the way, and the elite units are generally somewhere around 80-100, yes?

    If the Skaven armies follow the current pattern, then we can assume their units will be about 160. So at the absolute maximum, a single Skaven army will be 3041 Skaven. Compare that to Dwarfs, who, at maximum, have 2281.

    And if you want to be outnumbered, play with a single stack and activate one of those Chaos invasion buff mods....have fun!

    So the difference between a Dwarf army, where every single warrior is extremely valuable and difficult to replace due to low birthrates, and a Skaven army, where the entire strategy is to swarm the opposition with your infinite numbers, is, at the maximum, 760 soldiers.

    It's just unimpressive, the scale is far too small, especially for Warhammer. I've almost never been outnumbered by more than a few hundred soldiers. It's extremely rare for me to fight battles at 2:1 odds, whereas in the older titles I frequently found myself outnumbered by three or four troops for every one of mine.
    I see your points but it doesn't to me "look and feel better" at 5 FPS and/or low graphics settings. I think they have to make a choice here and engine/PC limitations dictate a maximum reasonable amount of units for performance purposes.

    I also never understand how these billions of Skavens survive. What do they eat?!

  17. #17

    Default Re: When are the Skaven coming?

    They eat everything, including eachother if they can get away with it. Half the reason they do huge invasions of the surface is because the rising chaos powers cause their population number to explode so it's half invade for resources (battlefield corpses count as they eat everything after the battle) and half conquer the lesser races. Failed invasions work out for them as well because it means their population was brought back down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Påsan View Post
    Unit sizes are about the same as they have always been. In tabletop you'd call an army of 200 rats huge.
    Haha, it's rather justified in tabletop since you have to assemble and paint every model. (Hasn't stopped some people from going overboard with realistic numbers, of course)

  18. #18
    craziii's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: When are the Skaven coming?

    I am 100% sure the skaven would be the main faction of 1 of the 2 remaining games I standby this prediction!!!
    fear is helluva drug
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    “The only rule that ever made sense to me I learned from a history, not an economics, professor at Wharton. "Fear," he used to say, "fear is the most valuable commodity in the universe." That blew me away. "Turn on the TV," he'd say. "What are you seeing? People selling their products? No. People selling the fear of you having to live without their products." freakin' A, was he right. Fear of aging, fear of loneliness, fear of poverty, fear of failure. Fear is the most basic emotion we have. Fear is primal. Fear sells.” WWZ

    Have you had your daily dose of fear yet? craziii
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  19. #19
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    Default Re: When are the Skaven coming?

    Quote Originally Posted by craziii View Post
    I am 100% sure the skaven would be the main faction of 1 of the 2 remaining games I standby this prediction!!!
    I will bet the right hand of one of my best friends that the four starting factions in game 2 are High Elves, Dark Elves, Lizardmen and Skaven.
    Under the patronage of Finlander. Once patron to someone, no longer.
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  20. #20
    The Holy Pilgrim's Avatar In Memory of Blackomur
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    Default Re: When are the Skaven coming?

    I'm willing to bet that, too!

    Especially the part about the right hand of his best friend.

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