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Thread: How do you Empire?

  1. #1

    Default How do you Empire?

    I am absolutely terrible at playing Empire in the campaign. I feel like I've figured out a reasonable grand strategy for every other faction now, but I just cannot figure out how to play Empire strategically.

    The first 10 turns are straightforward -- you just kill the Empire Rebels and consolidate your initial province. But then what?

    It seems like if I attack even one human faction, I immediately get into several unwinnable wars right off the bat with surrounding factions who war dec me (Middenheim, Marienburg, etc.).

    Can someone give me a rough breakdown of what I should be doing when with this faction?

    What do you do immediately after you get the three settlements from the Empire Rebels?

    Do you head over to VC territory right off the bat?

    Do you try to take Marienburg?

    How do you deal with Northern tribes and Chaos effectively?

    By around what turn should I have consolidated and taken all the Empire Provinces?

    How do you avoid the constant war decs from all the other human factions who seem to have some kind of secret entangling alliance with each other?!

    Around how many armies should I be fielding in the mid to late turns of the campaign? It seems like my finances are such that I can only field 3-4 stacks, which doesn't seem like enough to protect all my settlements (esp. the northern border with those pesky tribes and Chaos).

    How do I setup my settlements so that my finances are decent and I'm not constantly broke?

    Thanks!
    Last edited by jahjeremy; January 10, 2017 at 03:09 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: How do you Empire?

    Here is what I do after taking down the empire rebels (around turn 6-8) and doing the battle of bloodpine woods shortly after.

    1. Fight any nearby savage orcs or beastmen when you can. It'll give you diplomatic bonuses for fellow empire factions. Bad moon is a good target (Karak Azgaraz) if you have no other enemies (gives you diplomatic bonuses with Angrund, Wissenland and Wood Elves typically).

    2. Do whatever you can to get marienburg to fight either Bretonnia, some other Bret faction or Middleheim/Nordland. Usually this is just luck of the draw. The moment they send their large stack out to fight another faction, take marienburg. The port just makes too much money to not take it. Gorssel should follow quick after. Don't bother with any military buildings other than garrisons, and just focus on economy in this province. This should be your first goal.

    3. Avoid other wars with empire factions if you can. Keep an eye on diplomacy to see how well you are favoured. Confederate with any faction that has one or more provinces, but isn't at war with a faction you are at war with (most confederate when they are super weak, so confederating with them may mean you'll just lose the settlements you gain quickly after confederating).

    4. Use any heroes you have (other than mages) to go and mess with the vamps. You'll get diplomatic bonuses for this and will level up your heroes.

    5. I keep as many armies I can and still have $1000-$2000 income per turn. At late stages of the game, I just try to get enough armies to fill the offices.

    6. Depending on how things go early on, the vampires are a good enemy to fight if you don't own Averland or Stirland. This way you can just sack vampire settlements (via your access pact with stirland) with little chance of retribution. I'd rather weaken the vampires than try and occupy them early on. Sometimes Kadrin or Zhufbar will take them out for you if you weaken them enough.

    7. Dealing with the Norse: set up a garrison at gorssel and this should be sufficient for defence. A small army can be stationed there to deal with any Norse heading for marienburg. Later on, you can send an army up to sack and raise ice pack bay and longship graveyard now and again. If you ever confederate with nordland, your base of operations will be Dietershafen instead.

    8. For dealing with chaos, get your hands on Hergig, Talabheim or Wolfenburg and build a level 3 garrison there. It will be your chaos magnet. They will gun straight for it, and you just punish them with reinforcing armies you keep nearby.

    Hope that all helps!


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  3. #3

    Default Re: How do you Empire?

    After you control full Reikland:

    1. Take the Wasteland province for money. You should be able to afford 2 early full stacks I think after this. Do not wait too long or Bretonnia will take it. If Middenland or Nordland takes it its ok, you will be at war with them sooner than later, and they typically run only 1 full stack at that point in time so if you can catch them right after they take a city they should be weak.

    2. Take Wissenland for Nuln Gunnery School and Master Swordsmith. Wissenland itself will give you good income but more importantly you want to take this because this is where you will build all of your non-cavalry troops due to the 2 special buildings, Nuln Gunnery School and Master Swordsmith. It'll take a long time to upgrade all the buildings so the sooner you do this the sooner you can build your top tier units. Don't wait too long or Wissenland will start allying with the nearby dwarf factions and you don't want a unneccessary war with them this early. You need to send both full stacks to expedite this. If Averland or Sitrland takes any of Wissenland, its ok to declare war on them because they'll be busy with VC and probably sue for peace after a few turns anyway.

    3. Take Middenland. Because of the Knights Panther chapterhouse, this is where I build all my melee cavalry. Todbringer will usually hole up in Middenheim if you haven't wiped out his stack in the open already. Your 2 stacks should have no problem with a quick siege.

    4. Nordland is allied to Middenland so they're at war with you now, but they're usually pretty weak with 1 stack or less so again, 2 full stacks siege their main city and now you should have 5 full provinces under your control.

    5. With 5 full provinces, you can probably afford another stack or 2 and from this point you can more or less turtle till Chaos comes out (or just conquer the rest of the empire factions, you're strong enough now). The Bretonnian and Human factions won't like it that you're declaring war on other humans but don't worry, they can't really mess with you at this point. If you play the diplomacy game right they'll come around and start being friendly again soon enough. Alternatively you can just declare war on all the vamp factions early (assuming Sitrland and Averland still exist as buffers) to get constant relations increase with Humans and Dwarfs.

    6. Diplomacy - As soon as you can declare war on any Orc faction thats not adjacent to your territory you should so you can start building up relations with the Dwarf factions. Thorgrim will be your biggest trading partner and you need to be friendly with the dwarfs in the western mountains so they don't randomly attack you (depending on how friendly they are with WE). Of course, once you have the 5 provinces you can easily go wipe out Crooked Fang, but they do try to keep the Elves down so up to you.

    7. Dealing with Wood Elves - If you see the WE getting out of hand you will want to send a stack to help the Bretonnian factions. The earlier you do this the easier the WE stacks are; they typically won't be a full stack. Of course, Bretonnian factions won't be happy with you expanding so it might be hard to get military access; if so, you're gonna have to sail around their lands to get to the WE controlled lands. Just operate in their rear and raid and sack their outposts (DO NOT go into the forest!). That should give you a good amount of cash to upgrade your Wissenland troop buildings. If you see them sending a stack just run for the ocean. Once you're able to ally with some Bretonnian factions have your stack shadow their armies so you can fight WE together or just send another stack yourself (2 stacks can do anything in this game).

    8. Dealing with VC - Sometimes VC will steamroll Sitrland, Averland, and Talabecland. If this happens you'll probably need to help out, but by this time you should already have your 5 provinces or close to it so you should have sufficient forces to fight them. Early on Empire vs. VC can be harder due to fear (and the fact that Empire troops just aren't that good w/o the lord upgrades).

    9. Norse tribes - They'll occasionally send a stack or 2 to invade Nordland province. You just need 1 stack to hold it down over here. ALSO - keep 1 witch hunter up there to block their armies that way you're not chasing them halfway to Marienburg when they land.

    10. When Chaos comes - What does vanilla have them come out with, 4 or 5 stacks? That's just laughable. By that time you can probably afford 10 stacks if you wanted to. Plus you'll have the Dwarfs and maybe Bretonnia helping (and if you played diplomacy right, WE even).

    And I can't stress this enough, but recruit as many agents as you can. Witch hunters are essential because you need them to block armies for you, empire captains can train your troops and give the xp bonus on recruitment, wizards can raise magic reserves in a given province, and warrior priests drastically reduce chaos/vamp corruption and increase public order. You can do w/o the others but you need Witch hunters.

    And as always, every settlement needs a wall.

  4. #4

    Default Re: How do you Empire?

    Thanks, Chewie. This is exactly what I needed...

    What type of army composition do you tend to use as Empire?

  5. #5
    ♔atthias♔'s Avatar dutch speaking
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    Default Re: How do you Empire?

    Quote Originally Posted by jahjeremy View Post
    Thanks, Chewie. This is exactly what I needed...

    What type of army composition do you tend to use as Empire?
    against norsca 6 crosbowmen 2 uints of empire knights and the rest shielded spearmen will and can deal whit any norscan army they throw at you
    ortherwise no idea
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: How do you Empire?

    Unless you want to wait until Brettonia is released and Wood Elves toned down, what you can do after consolidating Reikland is to go down south and destroy the Wood Elves. Destroy them before they destroy you later on.

    Then prepared for Chaos. After Chaos is defeated then you can expand to complete the campaign.

    You can level up your forces by repeating sieging and sacking (don't raze) the greenskin settlement south of Marienburg. If all you settlement are level up, you can leave them almost unguarded as long as you have enough time to call back your army.

    My last campaign was exactly that. Raise 2 forces of cheap spearmen and crossbows and levels them up. Send one to Wood Elves while one guarding the province in case other AI factions decided to declare war on you.

  7. #7

    Default Re: How do you Empire?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elithian View Post
    1. Fight any nearby savage orcs or beastmen when you can. It'll give you diplomatic bonuses for fellow empire factions. Bad moon is a good target (Karak Azgaraz) if you have no other enemies (gives you diplomatic bonuses with Angrund, Wissenland and Wood Elves typically).

    4. Use any heroes you have (other than mages) to go and mess with the vamps. You'll get diplomatic bonuses for this and will level up your heroes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chewie View Post
    After you control full Reikland:

    2. Take Wissenland for Nuln Gunnery School and Master Swordsmith. Wissenland itself will give you good income but more importantly you want to take this because this is where you will build all of your non-cavalry troops due to the 2 special buildings, Nuln Gunnery School and Master Swordsmith. It'll take a long time to upgrade all the buildings so the sooner you do this the sooner you can build your top tier units. Don't wait too long or Wissenland will start allying with the nearby dwarf factions and you don't want a unneccessary war with them this early. You need to send both full stacks to expedite this. If Averland or Sitrland takes any of Wissenland, its ok to declare war on them because they'll be busy with VC and probably sue for peace after a few turns anyway.

    3. Take Middenland. Because of the Knights Panther chapterhouse, this is where I build all my melee cavalry. Todbringer will usually hole up in Middenheim if you haven't wiped out his stack in the open already. Your 2 stacks should have no problem with a quick siege.

    5. With 5 full provinces, you can probably afford another stack or 2 and from this point you can more or less turtle till Chaos comes out (or just conquer the rest of the empire factions, you're strong enough now). The Bretonnian and Human factions won't like it that you're declaring war on other humans but don't worry, they can't really mess with you at this point. If you play the diplomacy game right they'll come around and start being friendly again soon enough. Alternatively you can just declare war on all the vamp factions early (assuming Sitrland and Averland still exist as buffers) to get constant relations increase with Humans and Dwarfs.

    6. Diplomacy - As soon as you can declare war on any Orc faction thats not adjacent to your territory you should so you can start building up relations with the Dwarf factions. Thorgrim will be your biggest trading partner and you need to be friendly with the dwarfs in the western mountains so they don't randomly attack you (depending on how friendly they are with WE). Of course, once you have the 5 provinces you can easily go wipe out Crooked Fang, but they do try to keep the Elves down so up to you.

    9. ALSO - keep 1 witch hunter up there to block their armies that way you're not chasing them halfway to Marienburg when they land.
    Until you play a few campaigns as Empire these points don't become obvious for most but they make a HUGE difference. Empire when diplomacy goes your way is a very easy campaign but the main problems I've run into as Empire are when the rebels invite other factions into the war in the first 6 turns, that tends to snowball so if you want an easy campaign reload there. If you want one of the most exciting campaigns in TW ignore diplomacy and play on despite any DoW from other Empire factions. I would also download a mod that strengthens the main Chaos invasion while leaving Norscans in their weakened state. It is much more fun and interesting to fight 6-8 swollen Chaos armies that have armored trolls, chaos giants, etc than fight 40 battles for identical Norscan armies over the course of a campaign.

    The agent + special building bonuses also make mid-tier state troops able to battle vs the actual Chaos armies, you will take heavier losses but sometimes having 2 armies of mostly lower tier troops is better than 1 army that is heavy on high tier units. Still it can be fun to roll into battle with some steam tanks, demis, and lots of Reik lancers the main problem is even with Chaos not arriving until 80+ unless you planned perfectly and have no unexpected DoW there isn't time to get Steamtanks etc before having to fight Archaon.

    I would say the RoR also make Empire quite easier to play and some of the artillery units will make mince of Dwarfs, GS, and WE armies.
    Last edited by Ichon; January 11, 2017 at 03:56 PM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: How do you Empire?

    Quote Originally Posted by jahjeremy View Post
    Thanks, Chewie. This is exactly what I needed...

    What type of army composition do you tend to use as Empire?
    My first playthrough with Empire I came up with this setup (late):

    general
    1 non-magic hero
    1 magic user (because of shared magic pool)
    2 demigryph knights
    2 outriders
    2 greatswords
    4 halberdiers
    2 handgunners
    2 steam tanks
    2 hellstorm rockets
    1 luminark

    If you upgrade Wissenland asap, you can probably recruit this around 60 turns if I remember.

    At first I made all my armies this build but later playthroughs I wanted to roleplay a bit more so I only had this build for Franz and Balthasar. The remaining armies I would mostly keep the same ratio of unit types but just downgrade them to a lower tier unit, so something like:

    general
    1 non-magic hero
    1 magic hero
    2 empire knights (or reiksguard for Reiksmarshal and Volkmar)
    2 outriders
    1 greatsword (or free company militia)
    2 swordsmen (2 arch lectors and Volkmar use flagellants instead of swordsmen)
    4 halberdiers (or spearmen w/shields)
    2 crossbowmen (or handgunners if playing ulta hard chaos invasion mod)
    2 cannon
    2 hellstorm rockets (or mortars)

    And the best wizard for empire imo is light wizard for the net and time warp, but for sake of variety I try to put a different wizard in each army.

    And if chaos invasions ever gets boring, get this mod, its a no joke chaos invasion:
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...CHAOS+INVASION
    Last edited by Chewie; January 11, 2017 at 05:33 PM.

  9. #9
    ♔atthias♔'s Avatar dutch speaking
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    Default Re: How do you Empire?

    Quote Originally Posted by atthias View Post
    against norsca 6 crosbowmen 2 uints of empire knights and the rest shielded spearmen will and can deal whit any norscan army they throw at you
    ortherwise no idea
    ingore the two empire kniights I said instead take the non grenade launcher outriders instead plce them on the flanks so they can shoot warhounds and marauder horse men that can try to flank you
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  10. #10

    Default Re: How do you Empire?

    I win my battles with lots of handgunners; I find them to be highly effective against the vampires, Chaos heavy infantry, Norscan cavalry skirmishers, and any kind of big monster. I usually got 6 of them in one army.

    Then I also build 2 steam tanks,
    4 greatswords
    2 great cannons
    1 volley gun
    1 warrior priest
    1 wizard, preferably light wizard
    2 cavalry of any kind

    The weak point of that army is the melee infantry, that is why I often have my main army be accompanied by a second made up of cheap infantry. While the main army fires on the approaching enemy the grunts move behind their lines for support when the enemy closes in. The rendez-vous doesn't always go the way I want, but when it works it works...

  11. #11

    Default Re: How do you Empire?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbarian Borelord View Post
    I win my battles with lots of handgunners; I find them to be highly effective against the vampires, Chaos heavy infantry, Norscan cavalry skirmishers, and any kind of big monster. I usually got 6 of them in one army.

    Then I also build 2 steam tanks,
    4 greatswords
    2 great cannons
    1 volley gun
    1 warrior priest
    1 wizard, preferably light wizard
    2 cavalry of any kind

    The weak point of that army is the melee infantry, that is why I often have my main army be accompanied by a second made up of cheap infantry. While the main army fires on the approaching enemy the grunts move behind their lines for support when the enemy closes in. The rendez-vous doesn't always go the way I want, but when it works it works...
    Nice, so this is basically your version of my zombie/skeleton disposable fodder armies I bring along when I play VC.

  12. #12

    Default Re: How do you Empire?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbarian Borelord View Post
    I win my battles with lots of handgunners; I find them to be highly effective against the vampires, Chaos heavy infantry, Norscan cavalry skirmishers, and any kind of big monster. I usually got 6 of them in one army.

    Then I also build 2 steam tanks,
    4 greatswords
    2 great cannons
    1 volley gun
    1 warrior priest
    1 wizard, preferably light wizard
    2 cavalry of any kind

    The weak point of that army is the melee infantry, that is why I often have my main army be accompanied by a second made up of cheap infantry. While the main army fires on the approaching enemy the grunts move behind their lines for support when the enemy closes in. The rendez-vous doesn't always go the way I want, but when it works it works...
    So basically you bring along half of a Napoleon Total War army? Nice! I think I need to try this...

  13. #13
    Påsan's Avatar Hva i helvete?
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    Default Re: How do you Empire?

    I play with conquer anywhere and diplomatic options. Improves the campaign a lot for us that has done vanilla too much xD (Beware of the norscans though)

    I generally do this:
    Note : I never get any closer to anyone than trade deals. Diplomatic reputation matters and when two allies of you backstab each other you'll always get a penalty for broken deals.
    1: unify reikland
    2: get trade deals with friendlys ( and eventually with tilea, estralia, dwarves).
    3: take marienburg
    4: vassalize marienburg in their last settlement in the wasteland.
    5: go to war and vassalize brettonnia faction.
    6: Vassalize the rest of the bretonnian factions (try to get at least two-three of them) and take settlements that enable trade with your vassals/have valuable resources. Bretonnia faction should get at least two-three settlements for a nice 1200g vassal tribute.
    7:Vassalize the dwarven faction next to reikland. They are usually struggeling with one settlement.
    7.5: at this point I tried to invade athel loren. I spent four armies achieving nothing but a peace treaty.
    8: Around turn 70-90 Chaos will start to become dangerous. And its time to push back. Kill the norscan armies in the empire, ressurect any fallen empire provinces. The bretonnian vassals target Norsca. They will sail there and start knocking out settlements. If you got conquer anywhere they will occupy them.
    9: By the time Archeon arrives you and your vassals should have enough land to win the campaign. Kill Archeon and his stacks.
    10: Kill Vamps.
    11:Win.

    Ive done a version of this three times on VH (I dont like the morale debuff on legendary), In vanilla and with mods. Its very satisfying divide and conquer strategy and it provides some real challenge. Id suggest having both conquer anywhere, diplomatic options and chaos divided. (To make the norscans more interesting to fight)

  14. #14
    Frunk's Avatar Form Follows Function
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    Default Re: How do you Empire?

    FrunkSpace | Mod Announcements | Colonies & Empires

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    atthias | PaulH | Athos187

  15. #15
    The Holy Pilgrim's Avatar In Memory of Blackomur
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    Default Re: How do you Empire?

    Step 1: Ignore the existence of rat people. They are fake and the very idea of them is heretical.

    Step 2: Wear a fancy and exquisitely poofy hat.

    Step 3: Praise Sigmar three times a day. No more; no less. Three shall be the number of praises and the number of praises shall be three. Four shalt thou not praise, neither shalt thou praise twice, excepting that thou then proceedth to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the number of praises, be reached, throw thine hands up into the air and proclaimth "FOR GAL MARAZ!"

    Step 4: ????

    Step 5: Succumb to heresy and worship almighty Tzeentch!

  16. #16

    Default Re: How do you Empire?

    So I started a new Empire campaign, just on Normal to try out some of these strategies. Things are going better than usual! After about turn 6 or 7, I have Reikland consolidated and the Empire Rebels killed. I do the battle to get a free wizard, then I took Marienberg. I just destroyed them rather than vasselize (oops). Then I went to war with Middenland and got Middenheim. I caught out the Vampire Counts around turn 40 while they were besieging Stirland and destroyed their field armies. Now I think I'm going to kill VC before Chaos and the northern tribes get to annoying.

    Thanks for the advice!

  17. #17

    Default Re: How do you Empire?

    Quote Originally Posted by Påsan View Post
    I play with conquer anywhere and diplomatic options. Improves the campaign a lot for us that has done vanilla too much xD (Beware of the norscans though)

    I generally do this:
    Note : I never get any closer to anyone than trade deals. Diplomatic reputation matters and when two allies of you backstab each other you'll always get a penalty for broken deals.
    1: unify reikland
    2: get trade deals with friendlys ( and eventually with tilea, estralia, dwarves).
    3: take marienburg
    4: vassalize marienburg in their last settlement in the wasteland.
    5: go to war and vassalize brettonnia faction.
    6: Vassalize the rest of the bretonnian factions (try to get at least two-three of them) and take settlements that enable trade with your vassals/have valuable resources. Bretonnia faction should get at least two-three settlements for a nice 1200g vassal tribute.
    7:Vassalize the dwarven faction next to reikland. They are usually struggeling with one settlement.
    7.5: at this point I tried to invade athel loren. I spent four armies achieving nothing but a peace treaty.
    8: Around turn 70-90 Chaos will start to become dangerous. And its time to push back. Kill the norscan armies in the empire, ressurect any fallen empire provinces. The bretonnian vassals target Norsca. They will sail there and start knocking out settlements. If you got conquer anywhere they will occupy them.
    9: By the time Archeon arrives you and your vassals should have enough land to win the campaign. Kill Archeon and his stacks.
    10: Kill Vamps.
    11:Win.

    Ive done a version of this three times on VH (I dont like the morale debuff on legendary), In vanilla and with mods. Its very satisfying divide and conquer strategy and it provides some real challenge. Id suggest having both conquer anywhere, diplomatic options and chaos divided. (To make the norscans more interesting to fight)
    Why do you suggest to vassalize rather than destroy or confederate? Is there a big advantage to it?

    It totally makes sense for dwarves because you can't conquer them. For the human factions, is it basically providing you with a big income boost?

    And also, isn't it worth it to have military alliances with some factions so you can order your allies to attack with you? Or do you find that you can get along without direct allies?

  18. #18
    ♔atthias♔'s Avatar dutch speaking
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    Default Re: How do you Empire?

    Quote Originally Posted by jahjeremy View Post
    Why do you suggest to vassalize rather than destroy or confederate? Is there a big advantage to it?

    It totally makes sense for dwarves because you can't conquer them. For the human factions, is it basically providing you with a big income boost?

    And also, isn't it worth it to have military alliances with some factions so you can order your allies to attack with you? Or do you find that you can get along without direct allies?
    yes vassals gve X% of their income to you
    I hope orthers know the exact number
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  19. #19

    Default Re: How do you Empire?

    atthias: Interesting you recommend waiting until the end to kill the VC. It seems like they could be vulnerable around turn 40 so you could attack them earlier, especially since the AI of that faction doesn't really expand much by then from what I've found. This is what I'm doing in my current campaign, though I don't play on a very high difficulty setting (at least not this playthrough as I'm still trying to nail the overall strategy of Empire as it is prob one of my weakest single player factions right now).

    Perhaps the addition of Wood Elves has changed this a bit, though in my current game I'm trying to appease those treehuggers so they don't invade my lands!

  20. #20
    ♔atthias♔'s Avatar dutch speaking
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    Default Re: How do you Empire?

    Quote Originally Posted by jahjeremy View Post
    atthias: Interesting you recommend waiting until the end to kill the VC. It seems like they could be vulnerable around turn 40 so you could attack them earlier, especially since the AI of that faction doesn't really expand much by then from what I've found. This is what I'm doing in my current campaign, though I don't play on a very high difficulty setting (at least not this playthrough as I'm still trying to nail the overall strategy of Empire as it is prob one of my weakest single player factions right now).

    Perhaps the addition of Wood Elves has changed this a bit, though in my current game I'm trying to appease those treehuggers so they don't invade my lands!
    you confuse me whit pasan I guess
    as an aside did this anti norscan army work for you?
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post15219134
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    Are you a 3D Environment and Character artist, or a Character Animator?

    If yes, then the Rise of Mordor team linked above is looking for you!
    Massive Overhaul Submod Units!
    D you want some units back in MOS 1.7? Install this mod http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...n-1-1-RELEASED
    It adds back units who were deleted from the campaign in MOS 1.7, namely the Winged Swordsmen, the Citadel Guard Archers and the Gondor Dismounted Bodyguard.

    Under the proud patronage of
    Frunk of the house of Siblesz

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