Crazy Iraq vet shoots up airport

[IronBrig4]

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/...paign=newshour

Yesterday, a former National Guardsman who had just arrived in Fort Lauderdale took his gun out of checked baggage and shot up the baggage claim area. Five are dead and he's in custody.

This was a distinctly non-political shooting. He wasn't motivated by any political or religious goals. Instead, he'd complained about voices in his head. He'd been in Iraq and was eventually given a general discharge. It's a step above the Other Than Honorable (OTH) discharge but not by much.

Last year in Houston, an Afghan vet with PTSD shot seven people (killing one) before SWAT took him out. http://ktla.com/2016/05/31/gunman-in...cho-cucamonga/

Other mass shooters were veterans as well. The mass shooters at the Sikh temple in Wisconsin, the Washington Navy Yard, Dallas, and Baton Rouge were all veterans. Also, most of them received general discharges or were inches away from a general instead of an honorable discharge.

Most veterans manage to do very well for themselves. They muster out of the service, start families, and go on to successful careers. What do you think is the best way to deal with the vets who fall through the cracks? Financial help? Mandatory counseling?

I think part of the problem lies in military culture. Their spousal abuse rate is higher than that of the general population. It often goes unreported because the spouse is terrified of losing housing and other benefits in case the abuser is cashiered. The same thing happens when a veteran is clearly suffering from mental illness.

[Heathen Hammer]

Yeah, totally "not political". I guess Dylan Roof wasn't political either...

[IronBrig4]

We're talking about a specific breed of mass shooter. And you're just posting a JihadWatch photo.

[RedGuard]

Sadly this shooting looks like for the most part it was completely unpreventable without banning guns from airplanes. The way guns are checked on airplanes is already one of the strictist systems we have.

That said I heard that he was interviewed by the FBI, so he could have been put on a no-fly-list for his mental problems, which were known at the time. However that also raises the question as to what someone's rights are in that regard (im of the position that there is no right to fly on an airplane, its a privalege) and also what is to be done when someone is interviewed by the FBI for mental problems. The U.S. Government can not monitor every person they interview, nor should they imo. Clearly they did not think he was dangerous, or they had bigger fish to fry.

Most of the time the mental health facilities will reject you even if you turn yourself in. There usually has to be a case for keeping you when it is so underfunded, and nothing prevents a patiant that checked themselves in to leave on their own accord the same way.

I dare say better funding of VA programs and the ability to catch vets preemptively that may have problems on the outside is one way things like this could become more rare. Once vets get out, its of their own volition to seek help however, as no VA program is mandatory. I know of some vets that get good jobs with good health insurance that completely bypass the VA system (which is free) for the reason being that they are so slow and inadequate to the massive task they have.

[sumskilz]

We're talking about a specific breed of mass shooter. And you're just posting a JihadWatch photo.

He seems mentally ill, and yet it is a little weird the sources you posted failed to mention this:

On Friday night law enforcement officials reportedly said that in November last year, Santiago had told the FBI in Anchorage that voices in his head were forcing him to join and fight for Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isil).

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...-airport-live/

[RedGuard]

Yeah, totally "not political". I guess Dylan Roof wasn't political either...

you realize that those are issued to Army and Marines? Its a blacalva not a muslim terrorist garb.

[Heathen Hammer]

We're talking about a specific breed of mass shooter. And you're just posting a JihadWatch photo.

I posted a photo of the shooter, which is all over the media.

you realize that those are issued to Army and Marines? Its a blacalva not a muslim terrorist garb.

I was talking about the gesture, where you raise your index finger up, which is basically the Islamist version of Nazi salute. Also FBI confirmed that he was an Islamist.

[RedGuard]

they actually haven't confirmed that he was an islamist. and pointing a finger isn't proof of anything.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nation...106-story.html

[Heathen Hammer]

Um, he was literally talking about ISIS. Geez, its like when that spree shooter in Germany who was shooting people and screaming "Allah is great!" and there were folks who said "well, it wasn't confirmed he was an Islamist.". Suuure.

[swabian]

I was talking about the gesture, where you raise your index finger up, which is basically the Islamist version of Nazi salute. Also FBI confirmed that he was an Islamist.

Anus Amri in Germany actually knew he was observed. He turned to an observation cam and did the same salute.

[RedGuard]

Um, he was literally talking about ISIS. Geez, its like when that spree shooter in Germany who was shooting people and screaming "Allah is great!" and there were folks who said "well, it wasn't confirmed he was an Islamist.". Suuure.

UMMMMMMMMMMMMMM, talking about ISIS does not= Member of ISIS or even ISIS affiliated.

If you read anything about this, you would know he went crazy about a month ago, having a severe mental breakdown before boarding the plane. The original reports said there was an altercation on the plane. When he landed he waited for a period of time, as if contemplating what he was about to do, then removed his weapons from his bag and began shooting. As responders arrived he threw his gun down on the ground and surrendered.

Typically ISIS members have an exit strategy via a bullet or suicide vest that does not involve being captured. This man's modus operandi instead appears to be that of a loon that wanted notoriety by shooting some people. He will likely claim mental illness for his actions but I would not doubt that he doubles down on his ISIS idea. Its extremely unlikely in this case that he is affiliated in any way with terrorism.

[Heathen Hammer]

So making Islamist gestures and talking about your allegiance to ISIS doesn't mean you are an Islamist? I guess neither Dylan Roof nor Anders Brevick are right wing then.

[jockmcplop]

The way you guys talk you would think that mental health issues are completely incompatible with extreme and hateful political ideologies.
I would say that they go hand in hand.
Just like the guy who shot an MP just before Brexit.

[RedGuard]

So making Islamist gestures and talking about your allegiance to ISIS doesn't mean you are an Islamist? I guess neither Dylan Roof nor Anders Brevick are right wing then.

is lars vot trier a nazi? Gotta have more to go on than just doing a nazi salute and saying your a nazi for you to be part of a white nationalist group.

The way you guys talk you would think that mental health issues are completely incompatible with extreme and hateful political ideologies.
I would say that they go hand in hand.
Just like the guy who shot an MP just before Brexit.

Sorry if I gave that impression, but in this case considering there is no history or motivation for him to be a part of that organization, it seems much more likely that he thinks he is a part of ISIS and thats a part of his delusion.

[Heathen Hammer]

The way you guys talk you would think that mental health issues are completely incompatible with extreme and hateful political ideologies.
I would say that they go hand in hand.
Just like the guy who shot an MP just before Brexit.

Exactly. Trying to portray this as "distinctly non-political" is just hiding one's head in the sand.

[swabian]

Tss... *sigh*

Let me rant on for a little more: I am quite certain that psychopathy has practically nothing to do with terrorists. Actual psychopaths are the ones who devise terrorst acts, not the ones who carry them out.

If you look at the 911 terrorists you see that they were studied men, basically intelligent and probably sensitive, thus manipulatable, people. They did it because they were convinced that it is the right thing to do, that they will end up in heaven raping 72 virgins or whatever.

If it was only about disturbed individuals i wouldn't give a rat's ass.

[jockmcplop]

Tss... *sigh*

Let me rant on for a little more: I am quite certain that psychopathy has practically nothing to do with terrorists. Actual psychopaths are the ones who devise terrorst acts, not the ones who carry them out.

If you look at the 911 terrorists you see that they were studied men, basically intelligent and probably sensitive, thus manipulatable, people. They did it because they were convinced that it is the right thing to do, that they will end up in heaven raping 72 virgins or whatever.

If it was only about disturbed individuals i wouldn't give a rat's ass.

You are very confused.
You know there's a difference between psychopathy (a specific psychological condition you are born with) and mental health problems (which can occur at any point in life and can be due to a number of factors like stress, trauma etc.), right?

Also I never said that all terrorists have mental health conditions, what I said is that mental health issues and extreme political ideology go hand in hand.
By this I mean there is a proven link although not a proven causal link.

[swabian]

No i'm not confused at all, be assured of that. Maybe i was thinking ahead of what i tried to say, ok.

To make that clear: i don't think any psychological condition is an explanation for terrorist acts most of the time. Not depression, not schizophrenia, nothing. Soldiers charge into the fray for the dumbest reasons, if they are convinced that they have to. So do guerilleros and so do terrorists. There is no psychological condition that explains those acts, which is the actually disturbing truth of it.

[Abdülmecid I]

I think we have all understood, by now, the finger salute's point or absence of point, so, please let's concentrate on the thread's subject, instead of posting irrelevant images and unnecessary personal references.

[Love Mountain]

I don't know much about the subject, but I've seen it consistently mentioned that many Veterans have problems with mental health, whether its PTSD or otherwise. I've seen arguments that the Government simply doesn't do enough for these men, and I've seen arguments that it's simply hard to treat such issues anyway. Either way, another tragedy.