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Thread: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Voivodate of Wallachia

  1. #81
    Visarion's Avatar Alexandros
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Wallachian Units Preview

    Thank you but I do not live in Romania anymore, for quite a while now and do not have acces to those old books.

  2. #82
    Visarion's Avatar Alexandros
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Wallachian Units Preview

    Ltd. I feel like I haven't shown my appreciation enough for what you did here. The amount of work, attention to details and unique elements brought is astonishing. Thank you for your involvement in this project and for taking in consideration my suggestions while also doing your own research. Please excuse me for any past disrespect shown to you and/or the team and lack of appreciation.

  3. #83
    Visarion's Avatar Alexandros
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Wallachian Units Preview

    (Vlad "the Impaler" Dracula + Mathias Corvin) - Ottomans/Persians = Great!



    TY Pixelated Apollo!!!!!!

    https://youtu.be/2dP-FJ0G24M


    40 k views already!!!!!!!





    Last edited by Visarion; April 28, 2017 at 11:21 AM.

  4. #84
    Visarion's Avatar Alexandros
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Wallachian Units Preview

    A better link to Pixelated Apollo's 63k views of Vlad Dracula invaded in his Poenari Castle... Siege of Castle BRAN: Rising of Vlad Dracula

    Last edited by Visarion; May 01, 2017 at 09:16 AM.

  5. #85

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Wallachian Units Preview

    Great job on adding the faction that nearly nailed the hungarian king at Posada. While bazard is alittle bizzare....still an amazing job.
    I wouldve used Basarab, Besarab, Bazaraad, maybe Basarab I as well as the army commander (cav) just to cover the early period. Vlad dracul is cute, but that is late period.

  6. #86
    Visarion's Avatar Alexandros
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Wallachian Units Preview

    Yeah I don't know what's their source for "Bazard" either. What do you think about the roster?

  7. #87
    Wallachian's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Wallachian Units Preview

    @Visarion. I remember you were vehemently against when I suggested changing the faction name from the ridiculous 'Bazard' (I think there is literally one source that mentions that name) to something like Basarab or Bessarab (which is the currently English accepted version of the name) or to even the more generic Vlach Knezates (to represent all the knezates and voivodships that were spread in the XIIIth century including the ones of Litovoi, Seneslau, Farcas etc).
    Last edited by Wallachian; May 01, 2017 at 06:50 PM.

  8. #88

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Wallachian Units Preview

    We will change the name on the next update. Just find us a better name to go by.

  9. #89
    Visarion's Avatar Alexandros
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Wallachian Units Preview

    I'll leave this to Wallachian as I am no ethnic of this group plus I get ill-tempered when it comes to this faction due to the amount of research done and info gathered.

  10. #90
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Wallachian Units Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Visarion View Post
    I'll leave this to Wallachian as I am no ethnic of this group plus I get ill-tempered when it comes to this faction due to the amount of research done and info gathered.
    Well i don't really think it matters what ethnic group you belong to, technically my ancestors were ethnically Germanised Czechs, that doesn't stop me from researching certain aspects.

    Anyway coming back to the discussions, first I would definitely change the name of the faction from Voivod (which means prince/ruler) to Voivodship (which actually refers to the country). The proto-states in existence in the area in the XIIIth century were referred to as Terra, Knezates or Voivodships. Since there was no official name for the people the vlachs were referred to variably as olati, olath, blaci, walati, walathi etc. You can use any of these names or you can use just the simple English word Vlach. The name that you used 'Bazard' refers to the Basarab dynasty which only appeared in history in the late XIIIth century.

    My suggestion would be to use a more generic faction name to not pinpoint it to a specific dynasty. Suggestions would include Vlach Knezates, Vlach Voivodships, Terra Blacorum, Terra Olatorum, etc

    Discussions regarding the Knezates, Voivodships and the Terras

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 






    Discussions regarding the states of the vlachs which were referred to as 'Blacorum'

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 






    The population of Cumania in the Danubian region was referred to in a letter from Pope Gregory IX as 'Walati' or 'Walathi' that is vlachs, wallachians of Greek rite that is Orthodox. This differentiates them from the Cumans which were first pagans and then Catholics.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 





    In regards to ethnicity a lot of the names of the rulers can be seen as being of slavic (Litovoi), hungarian (Farcas) and cumanic (Basarab) origin but they are always referred to as vlachs. This indicates that there seemed to be a vlach identity which combined the various slavic, cumanic, hungarian and neo-latin people of the area. Which makes sense as by the XIV-XVth centuries all other ethnicities had been assimilated into the Wallachian identity.

  11. #91
    Visarion's Avatar Alexandros
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Wallachian Units Preview

    So basically given the fact that the team chose the name Polish Duchies for the Poles we should opt for Vlach Kenazates I suppose... of course the team could choose to represent Terra Blacorum et Bissenorum (dividing into the Teutonic Mark of Burzenland or Terra Bozza later Saxon Hermannstadt and Kronstadt and the Vlach and Saxon Dukedom of Amlas and Fogaras under Radu Negru, conquering or better said occupying through diplomacy the strangely enough, Vlach and Saxon Mark of Campo Longo led by the Saxon Magistrus Laurentius, followed by Thocomerius, ally of the Voivode of Transylvania and enemy of the King of Bavaria, Hungarian throne pretendent, extending his territory into Hatzeg and finally the unifier Basarab I or Bazaraad how the Pope called him, the ruler of Bessarabia, the extended before mentioned mark or Muntenia, united with it's sister faction of the Romanian Plain, the region now called Oltenia, threateaning to absorb the Banat as well and also including possible before led lands from the Pontic Steppes, the Budjak and the creator of the Voivodeship of Wallachia, a true conqueror leading an army of Vlachs and Pechenegs. Later the Basarabids will become protectors of the Knezate of Vidin and Despotate of Dobrudja. The historical regions of Romania are: Crisana, Maramures, Fagaras and Ardeal in Transylvania, Muntenia, Dobrogea, Cadrilater, Oltenia and Banat in historical Tara Romaneasca or Wallachia, Moldova, Bucovina, Basarabia, Bugeac, Vozia and Pocutia in historical Moldavia. The son of Ivanko Basarab, Vladislav Vlaicu was "Vojvoda Transalpinus, et Banus Zeverino necnon dux de Fogaras". After him all Wallachian Voivodes used this titulature with the acceptance and recognition of the Hungarian Crown. Still the tradition started since before 1247 during Lytuoy, Voivode of Terra Lytua and Ban of Severin. Also see the "slav" ending continuation of the first name meaning "glory" or "fame" in Slavic languages or Old Church Slavonic. Also note that the first alphabet of the Vlachs was the Cyrilic one), Voivodeship of Maramaros (under Dragos and the usurper Bogdan, conquering the Hungarian Mark of Moldvabanya / Stadt Molde / Civitas Moldaviae and later establishing the self-ruled break-away state, splinter faction, the Voivodeship of Moldavia), Ilaut or Terra Lytua (under Bezerenbam followed by Lytuoy and then by Barbath as a commonwealth with the Hospitaller Mark of John and Farkas Kenazates and titular ruler and defender of the Hungarian Mark of Szorenyvar or Terra Zeurino in the so called Cumania region, the Banate of Severin or Banatus Zewriniensis with Hungarian, Vlach, Cuman and Saxon populance) and Transalpina (under Miseslav or Mislau followed by Seneslav or Seneslau with Vlach, Saxon and most likely Slavic populance also if not Khazarian as well). All these should be included if we are to respect history and not make discriminations, of wich playable Terra Blacorum et Bissenorum or Dukedom of Amlas and Fogaras or simly Dukedom of Fogaras and Voivodeship of Maramaros. Also not Vlach factions should be Jassy of the Sarmatian Alan Jasz and Terra Bordini of the Tauro-Scythian Bordini under Ploskanea. Bolokhovians and Brodniks can be represented as vassals of Halych and Black Cumania with mixed Vlach and Ruthenian populance if not Cuman, Oghuz and Pecheneg as well. Also there should be Black and White Cumania as opposed to a single Cuman-Kypchak faction. Cumans-Black Cumania including Kara Ulag (from Vlach) future Black or Mavro Vlachia and even Kara Bogdania in the west and Kypchaks in the much greater steppe eastern White Cumania.

    Last edited by Visarion; May 02, 2017 at 04:40 PM.

  12. #92

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Wallachian Units Preview

    The Polish duchies are 4 factions (greater and lesser Poland, Silesia and Pomerania), not a single faction. Not a huge fan of Knyezates or whatever variant. Since Wallachia was born from various groups, one should be ixentified and stuck with imo.

  13. #93
    Visarion's Avatar Alexandros
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Wallachian Units Preview

    Well this is what I wrote above, indeed then I developed the post and maybe it seems complicated. Based on local legends and various sources this is the case: four Vlach States: Terra Blacorum et Bissenorum would be the best to represent the current Bazarraad Voivodeship as this faction is one step ahead so: Terra Blacorum et Bissenorum -> Duchy/Dukedom of Fogaras -> Mark of Campo Longo -> Voivodeship of Bessarabia -> Voivodeship of Wallachia. The other version if we take in consideration that Negru Voda was the conquerer of the Voivodeship of Seneslau and thus his continuator would be: Voivodeship of Miseslav -> Voivodeship of Seneslau -> Transalpina -> Mark of Campo Longo -> Bessarabia -> Wallachia. This is true for the other known faction as well, Terra Lytua or the Voivodeship of Lytuoy: Voivodeship of Bezerenbam -> Voivodeship of Lytuoy -> Banate of Severin -> Wallachia. A the title is Vojvoda Transalpinus et Banus Zeverinus necnon dux de Fogaras known to the west best version for the current faction would be thus "Transalpina" because this is the place from where the expansion started. This particular region was known to the west as Wallachia so this is another option because Fogaras will be known as the land of the Saxons from the Carpathians and Terra Lytua as the Banate of Hunyadi or the Corvins due to the Hunyad castle in the adjuvant Hatzeg region. The adiacent region was fortified also as a mark against nomad and Balkan invasion.


    The other branch would be Voivodeship of Maramaros -> Mark of Moldvabanya -> Voivodeship of Moldavia but that would include adding a possible playable faction of Moldavia as well and a starting position in a region next to Transylvania, in the heart of Hungary proper again as a horde as sources state that Maramaros was taken from Halych by Hungarians after previously being given to govern in exchange for alliance for a limited amount of time and because it was predominantly rural and woodland in aspect, it was called a "Royal Woodland" and first mentioned in 1199. Most likely it started as a northern mark as well so maybe starting as a horde stationed in a fort. Again loyal to Hungary it's development factor but preserving the local customs, wear, culture and being given the right to self govern, a union of feudal rural domains, represented by Knyaz elder rulers under the authority of a greater Voivode with domains of his own and using Ius Valahorum. The army was represented by the cavalry, fighting as lancers and called "the Brave" or "Viteji". Elite contingent preserved by the later Moldavian succesor state as well alongside the "Voinici" or "Sturdy" infantry corps. Later they developed alongside the Boieri, the lesser nobility and crusader volunteers of Plaiesi, Razesi, Nemesi and Mazili border guards. Other famous contingents were the archer/lancer Blitzkrieg Curteni of Grunwald, the dismounted battle frenzy pyro Boieri of Baia, the Volunteers of Vrancea, saviours of Stephen the Great and unbreakable, embarked in a suicidal mission, the victors of the steppes, the Hansari Hussars and the swift Calarasi horse archers compared to the nomads in ranged skills and horsemanship. Also both Maramaros and Moldavia had a small owner of land contingent, owners of small estates, the lesser nobility military corps called Namesi or Nemesi. They were given more land if they participated in wars.

    If one wants to give a titulature to the name of the faction that is to become the Principality of Wallachia that would be either Voivodeship of Transalpina or Wallachia, Dukedom of Fogaras or even Banate of Severin or Szoreny in it's original name. All would represent the current faction. It is simply a matter of choice and prefference. I would go for Dukedom of Fogaras myself and to represent the legend of Radu Negru I would put the faction in Transylvania as a horde and allied to Hungary or even starting as a protectorate.
    Last edited by Visarion; May 02, 2017 at 04:36 PM.

  14. #94
    Visarion's Avatar Alexandros
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Wallachian Units Preview

    Another suitable name would be Ungro Vlachia, Ungro-Vlachia or Ungrovlachia because it is the predecessor of Wallachia, meaning the land of the Vlachs living near or next to Hungary. This or simply Voivodeship of Ungrovlachia and this would sort out the starting status as qvasi-independent Hungarian ally against Mongol and Balkan invasions, a mark in the wild and little explored Cumania, de jure part of the Royal Hungarian Crown domains much like the starting position and status quo of the Teutonic Order amongst followers of Paganism. Also the starting and predominant religion of this state should be Catholicism but in a region with about 40% Orthodoxy, 20% Catholicism, 20% Bogomilism and 20% Tengrism, Animism and Shamanism. Maybe even Judaism due to the remnants of the Khazars but less likely. Due to the fact that later Wallachians defected to the Byzantines and adopted Orthodoxy there should be some units given to the player based on the religious buildings he constructs, knight like troops if Catholicism and militia / Orthodox Crusader / Local great and small nobility / small land owners / chosen veterans and Byzantine mercenaries / voluntiers if Orthodoxy, Bulgarian mercenaries if Bogomilism and if Tengrism Steppe Tribal troops. Also Janissary troops if Muslim.
    Last edited by Visarion; May 02, 2017 at 02:31 PM.

  15. #95

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Wallachian Units Preview

    Everything you write makes it even more muddled and less convincing on any choice of name for the faction. If it wasn't for the fact that the Wallachians are already made, you'd be making a great case for why the faction shouldn't even be in the mod for the start date.

  16. #96
    Visarion's Avatar Alexandros
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Wallachian Units Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Visarion View Post
    Well this is what I wrote above, indeed then I developed the post and maybe it seems complicated. Based on local legends and various sources this is the case: four Vlach States: Terra Blacorum et Bissenorum would be the best to represent the current Bazarraad Voivodeship as this faction is one step ahead so: Terra Blacorum et Bissenorum -> Duchy/Dukedom of Fogaras -> Mark of Campo Longo -> Voivodeship of Bessarabia -> Voivodeship of Wallachia. The other version if we take in consideration that Negru Voda was the conquerer of the Voivodeship of Seneslau and thus his continuator would be: Voivodeship of Miseslav -> Voivodeship of Seneslau -> Transalpina -> Mark of Campo Longo -> Bessarabia -> Wallachia. This is true for the other known faction as well, Terra Lytua or the Voivodeship of Lytuoy: Voivodeship of Bezerenbam -> Voivodeship of Lytuoy -> Banate of Severin -> Wallachia. A the title is Vojvoda Transalpinus et Banus Zeverinus necnon dux de Fogaras known to the west best version for the current faction would be thus "Transalpina" because this is the place from where the expansion started. This particular region was known to the west as Wallachia so this is another option because Fogaras will be known as the land of the Saxons from the Carpathians and Terra Lytua as the Banate of Hunyadi or the Corvins due to the Hunyad castle in the adjuvant Hatzeg region. The adiacent region was fortified also as a mark against nomad and Balkan invasion.


    The other branch would be Voivodeship of Maramaros -> Mark of Moldvabanya -> Voivodeship of Moldavia but that would include adding a possible playable faction of Moldavia as well and a starting position in a region next to Transylvania, in the heart of Hungary proper again as a horde as sources state that Maramaros was taken from Halych by Hungarians after previously being given to govern in exchange for alliance for a limited amount of time and because it was predominantly rural and woodland in aspect, it was called a "Royal Woodland" and first mentioned in 1199. Most likely it started as a northern mark as well so maybe starting as a horde stationed in a fort. Again loyal to Hungary it's development factor but preserving the local customs, wear, culture and being given the right to self govern, a union of feudal rural domains, represented by Knyaz elder rulers under the authority of a greater Voivode with domains of his own and using Ius Valahorum. The army was represented by the cavalry, fighting as lancers and called "the Brave" or "Viteji". Elite contingent preserved by the later Moldavian succesor state as well alongside the "Voinici" or "Sturdy" infantry corps. Later they developed alongside the Boieri, the lesser nobility and crusader volunteers of Plaiesi, Razesi, Nemesi and Mazili border guards. Other famous contingents were the archer/lancer Blitzkrieg Curteni of Grunwald, the dismounted battle frenzy pyro Boieri of Baia, the Volunteers of Vrancea, saviours of Stephen the Great and unbreakable, embarked in a suicidal mission, the victors of the steppes, the Hansari Hussars and the swift Calarasi horse archers compared to the nomads in ranged skills and horsemanship.

    If one wants to give a titulature to the name of the faction that is to become the Principality of Wallachia that would be either Voivodeship of Transalpina or Wallachia, Dukedom of Fogaras or even Banate of Severin or Szoreny in it's original name. All would represent the current faction. It is simply a matter of choice and prefference. I would go for Dukedom of Fogaras myself and to represent the legend of Radu Negru I would put the faction in Transylvania as a horde and allied to Hungary or even starting as a protectorate.
    Well I explained it better here for Ungro Vlachia (Wallachia) and Mavro Vlachia (Moldavia). I would add them both starting as horde factions loyal to Hungary, both starting in Transylvania as border armies, deffensive marks against nomads and Balkan invasions. Both Catholic. One being called Duchy of Fogaras (Wallachia) while the other Voivodate of Maramaros (Moldavia) alongside the better known Terra Lytua replacing the current Wallachia faction. This and making Croatia playable if not even the Csak-Aba Nobles as well, as a separatist entity, purely Magyar in nature and opposing the Venetian/Napolitan/Saxon influence on the country, allied to Bohemia. The non playable Terra Lytua can start as a dependency of Bulgaria. Fogaras and Maramaros will have the role to pacify Cumania and de facto annex it for Hungary and in the name of Catholicism and also the excommunicated Bulgarian state alongside it's Serbian and Byzantine supporters for the separatist movement.
    Last edited by Visarion; May 02, 2017 at 03:56 PM.

  17. #97

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Wallachian Units Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Visarion View Post
    Well I explained it better here for Ungro Vlachia (Wallachia) and Mavro Vlachia (Moldavia). I would add them both starting as horde factions loyal to Hungary, both starting in Transylvania as border armies, deffensive marks against nomads and Balkan invasions. Both Catholic. One being called Duchy of Fogaras (Wallachia) while the other Voivodate of Maramaros (Moldavia) alongside the better known Terra Lytua replacing the current Wallachia faction. This and making Croatia playable if not even the Csak-Aba Nobles as well as a separatist entity, purely Magyar in nature and opposing the Venetian/Napolitan/Saxon influence on the country, allied to Bohemia. The non playable Terra Lytua can start as a dependency of Bulgaria.
    We're in 1212, not mid 13th century, not late 13th century, not 14th century. If you can't come up with a single name that could describe a Vlach polity that is a vital part of the founding of the Voivodeship of Wallachia, it's pretty damning evidence against the faction's presence at the start date.

  18. #98
    Visarion's Avatar Alexandros
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Wallachian Units Preview

    Terra Lytua there! The existing and documented entity. This or Banate of Severin. Lytuoy Voivode of Terra Lytua and Ban of Severin. That is it! You're right. I get the picture... Terra Lytua or Ilaut. That is it...
    Last edited by Visarion; May 02, 2017 at 04:01 PM.

  19. #99
    Visarion's Avatar Alexandros
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Wallachian Units Preview

    Voivodate of Terra Lytua and Banate of Severin or Voivodate of Seneslau, the only plausible choices.

  20. #100
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Wallachian Units Preview

    Hahaha Look at you, want Wallachia to be playable and you can not even get a proper name. Stay province at Bulgaria and we will give you a glory name
    Sorry I can't resist
    Last edited by finix; May 02, 2017 at 04:59 PM.
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