Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Voivodate of Wallachia

[FrozenmenSS]

I like the unique look. Well done doing something outside the box, once again Ltd. ^^

As far as I've understood it, Wallachia generally lacked armour? My only hope is that this will be an underdog faction with worse stats than it's neighbors throughout the campaign, and that is a good thing in my opinion. Generally lacking armour and having to make due with less is what makes a challenge, and inadvertently makes for an enjoyable campaign from my point of view. If a faction is listed as 'Hard', I want to play that faction. Whenever a faction is Op and nothing more than a breeze, it's really not worth the time slogging through because you know there is not going to be a challenge. Here is an overview of an other underdog faction, Enedwaith, for another mod that I recently thoroughly enjoyed from start to finish. There was never a moments rest when your units are poor. While they're two complely different mods, there are still similarities. Wallachia kinda sticks to my head whenever I think of Enedwaith, because the element of "lacking armour" is a somewhat similar, but perhaps I'm wrong. Maybe Ireland is a better comparison. https://youtu.be/n8ySs_KaGMg?t=19m46s

Opinion aside, cheers.

~Wille

Totally true for me also .I got the fealing Wallachia will be the Rome 2 equivalent of the Thracians/Dacians factions in theme of playstyle of lacking Armour.

[Ltd.]

Well, yes, Wallachia in terms of heavy armour may be an underdog, but having proficient and many archers, javelinmen, lots of lighter cavalry and horse archers should be beneficial. One just has to turn the disadvantages to advantages. I am sure the Hungarian king Charles Robert of the Anjou dynasty can tell a tale or two from his experiences at the battle of Posada. So do the mongols, or Ottomans...

When I played as the Getae in Rome 2 I always loved to set up ambushes to destroy much more numerous armies.

And you can always hire mercenaries if you feel the need to bolster you armies with heavier troops.

Btw, I tried to give them good armour since it is nowhere mentioned that everyone was running around in sheepskin. So the mosneni units should be pretty capable to pack a punch against anyone but the heaviest of foe. One just needs to combine and make good use of the troops he has.

[Wallachian]

I like the unique look. Well done doing something outside the box, once again Ltd. ^^

As far as I've understood it, Wallachia generally lacked armour? My only hope is that this will be an underdog faction with worse stats than it's neighbors throughout the campaign, and that is a good thing in my opinion. Generally lacking armour and having to make due with less is what makes a challenge, and inadvertently makes for an enjoyable campaign from my point of view. If a faction is listed as 'Hard', I want to play that faction. Whenever a faction is Op and nothing more than a breeze, it's really not worth the time slogging through because you know there is not going to be a challenge. Here is an overview of an other underdog faction, Enedwaith, for another mod that I recently thoroughly enjoyed from start to finish. There was never a moments rest when your units are poor. While they're two complely different mods, there are still similarities. Wallachia kinda sticks to my head whenever I think of Enedwaith, because the element of "lacking armour" is a somewhat similar, but perhaps I'm wrong. Maybe Ireland is a better comparison. https://youtu.be/n8ySs_KaGMg?t=19m46s

Opinion aside, cheers.

~Wille

Depends what you are referring as armour. For example things like chainmail, leather and scale armour were fairly common. But if you are referring to full plate armour than yes Wallachia did not have as much as other more Western factions or Hungary. There are two main reasons: one is that it was not as widely available and expensive. But the other is that for most of its history Wallachia fought against highly mobile forces like the Tatars and then against the Ottomans. There is a reason why the Ottomans prevailed at Nicopolis against heavy armoured Crusaders. The Wallachians adopted tactics to suit this style of warfare and soon enough so did Hungary with the advent of the Hussars.

The medium style armour which was most used according to monastery paintings is a mix of scale and leather armour which gives adequate protection and you have represented quite nicely in the mod units

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

A good example of the change in tactics is the use of the crossbow. In the XIVth century the crossbow was used when fighting against heavy armoured enemies like the Hungarians. But as time went past and the main foe became the Ottomans the crossbow fell into disuse purely because bows covered much more distance and were more efficient against the highly mobile and less armoured Ottomans.

[Visarion]

You do know that there are representations in monasteries of warriors with plate cuirass and greatswords right? And not so few as one would thing so plate was present too just not full plate, at least not so often and used by the hughly elite units, including mercenaries, Hungarians and Saxons that were sent by the Hungarian sovereign to fight fir Wallachia, very well represented by Ltd.

[Slytacular]

And those representations are where?

[Visarion]

Here you can see greatswordsmen with the spatha or archers with plate cuirass and the spatha as a secondary weapon.

Ty! I needed a second oppinion as I kind of imagined that as well. Still some are native!

Anyway more reliable sources:

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[Visarion]

From a gamer's perspective I would add these:

Missile Infantry



PLAIESI JAVELINMEN - Tier 1

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Tier 2



VLACH ARCHERS - Militia level - Tier 1 and Tier 2 (can use poison - arrows)

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MOSNENI ARCHERS -Tier 1 (can use poison - arrows)

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MOSNENI ARCHERS - Tier 2 (can use poison - arrows)

BOIERI ARCHERS - Tier 1

Tier 2 ( plate cuirass, bow, spatha)

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VLACH CROSSBOWMEN - Tier 2

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VLACH CROSSBOWMEN - Tier 3

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VLACH GUNNERS - Tier 3 (Saxon and bohemian influence )

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CURTENI FOOT ARCHERS - Tier 3 ( Picked archers more than capable in melee )

New bows - credits to zsimmortal for assistance with the animation !

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Melee Infantry



PEASANTS / SERFS

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MOSNENI - Tier 1 (cuman influence)

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VLACH SPEARMEN - Militia Level - Tier 2

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MOSNENI - Tier2

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MOSNENI - Tier 3

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MOSNENI SPEARMEN - Tier 3

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VLACH GUARDSMEN - Tier 3 (picked heavy halberdiers)

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TARGOVETI - Tier 2 (Spatha)

MACEMEN - Tier 1

Tier 2


Cavalry


Cuman Horse Archers - Tier 1



CALARASI HORSE ARCHERS - Tier 2

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CALARASI HORSE ARCHERS - Tier 3

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VITEJI - HORSE ARCHERS - Tier 2 ( armored horse archers able to put up a fight both to nomadic as well as western enemies)

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VITEJI - Tier 3 (warriors who dropped the bow in favour of heavier armor. They prefer the use of couched lance)

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Boieri - Tier 2

Slujitori - Tier 2

Spatarei - Tier 2 (Lancers, Scale)

Targoveti - Tier 2 (Mercenary Lancers)

CURTENI CAVALRY - Tier 3

(an essential and capable counter to the lightly armored but very succesful hungarian hussars and serbian gussars as well as ottoman raider forces)

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Voivode - Tier 2 ( of the basarab dinasty)

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VLAD The IMPALER (rom. Vlad Tepes) - Tier 3 - SPECIAL CHARACTER

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Cuman, Byzantine, Bulgarian, Dobrudjan, Serbian, Hungarian, Szekler, Moldavian and Transylvanian AoR

Bulgarian mercenaries

Quick note: the roster is not complete. The majority of units displayed here are for the tiers 2 and 3. The implementation of tier 1 units and the playable faction status of the Voivodate of Wallachia (to become Principality of Wallachia ) is still subject of debate, but we have ideas how to make them playable.

[lion8000]

Those plate cuirass look more like ancient Greek or Roman. I was in the Boyana church (13th century) a couple of months an the Warrior Saints looked pretty much the same way. Icons and mural paintings aren't very reliable.

[Visarion]

Well I made a very vast study and seems tge opposite... all Orthodox churches from the Balkans, Anatolia, Syria and Egypt depicted saints with the weapons and armor present in the days they were painted. Including the churches of Mani.

[Wallachian]

As much as those are beautiful paintings pretty much very few of them show plate cuirass. Mostly they show is leather and scale armour, leather cuirass and some bits of lamellar which is based on the Byzantine armour of the time.

This one here on the right could be a plate cuirass. But the ratio in this painting is like 3 to 1, another painting has 4 to 1. And the ratio in the overall paintings is like 20 to 1. Which makes sense, as plate armour was not as widespread.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Also none of the swords are greatswords. There are a few depicted in the painting as being long but they are not greatswords as the greatswords would have a much larger handle and would be very difficult to have in scabbard.

These are the standard sizes of the swords in Wallachia and size-wise they are barely as long as a crossbow

[Visarion]

Btw were there any regular units using the greataxe ir two handed maces? I keep seeung depictions if such units.

[Wallachian]

Weapons like axes and maces were extremely common due to the ease of creating such weapons. Especially the two handed mace known as the 'ghioaga' or 'maciuca' which were basically a big wooden club with nails in it.

In terms of size here is a crude recreation of the mace

[Visarion]

What units would you suggest further for a full roster?

[Visarion]

About Ltd.'s proposal that the Cuman Khanate evolves into Wallachia if it keeps a region around the Black Sea I totally agree because Cumans were present in Baragan Plain, Budjak, Dobrudja and Moldavia in the 13th century and more important than that together with the Saxons and Vlachs were the main inhabitants of the two Hungarian strongholds and avanposts, future marks in Cumania namely Severin and Fogaras and also most likely Radu Negru, probably Tochomerius or his father, most likely a Cuman migrated from the Carpathians, Fogaras and Amlas Dukedoms together with Orthodox and Catholic Vlachs, Saxons and surely Cumans and Pechenegs as later Basarab, his son or grandson is mentioned leading an army of Vlachs and Pechenegs at Posada. Also the region was known as Terra Vlahorum et Bissenorum. It was also inhabited by the Jasz, another Cuman subject while Budjak was and still is inhabited by the Oghuz or Gok-Oghuz, meaning Blue Oghuz, now known as the Gagauzi from the Autonomous Region of Gagauzia, Bessarabia, Republic of Moldova. They are also present in the historical region of Moldavia, Romania. Probably Hungarians migrated too favouring the Transylvanian aristoctrates that now became dictators namely Borsa, Apor and Kan as Tihomer is later mentioned as the ally of Apor and Kan against the Bohemian regicide. They will occupy in the 13th century the Saxon avanpost of Campo Longo and unite with the Cumans from Baragan and Budjak after the Tartar hegemony weakens. Basarab himself is half Cuman, the last hegemon of his kind.

[Wallachian]

Sure, makes sense to have the Cuman Khanate evolve into Wallachia as the collapse of the Cuman state eventually led to the rise of the Wallachian state. I am not sure if the engine allows for tributary states.

About Tochomerius it's still really a mistery because both interpretations of his name make sense - Toktamer as a Turkic name but also Tihomir as a Slavic name. I still tend towards the Slavic though (maybe both/mixed?) as it would make sense that a Slavic chieftain would emerge as the leader in the area considering previous rulers had Slavic names (Litovoi, Seneslav).

About other units well there are plenty of options. I would say a Boyar unit would fit well and of course units such as two-handed macemen.

[Visarion]

Perhaps the name of the first ruler Ivanco Basarab means the uninon of the two houses, that of Mislau and Seneslau with the one of Tochomerius or Radu Negru from Fogaras, across the mountains meaning God is Gracious and the Father Ruler. Anyway they started after a mass migration. Probably the house of Seneslau died out and was replaced by the Basarabids that went on until the house of Dracula emerged from the same root. The Basarabs, Bessarabs, Bazarabs or Bazaarads also took over the house of Bezerenbam, Lytuoy, Litovoi, Litavor and Barbath so the best wat to represent them.

[Lucem Mundum]

I don't know where you guys got the idea that the Cuman Khanate will evolve into Wallachia. Sly said that the Basarabs (who will be their own faction) will become Wallachia once the they occupy a Black sea region. Anyways, the Wallachian situation is not yet finalized and there are plans for breaking down the Cuman Khanate into multiple factions.

. Basarab himself is half Cuman, the last hegemon of his kind.

The ethnicity of the ruling family doesn't matter, this is just like saying "Mamluks were Kipchaks/Cumans therefore they can evolve into Cumania."

[Slytacular]

Lucem, we had a very similar conversation not that long ago and came to the same conclusion. Difference is that everybody else doesn't know we would split the Cumans into separate factions. I'm sure people in this thread with a progression of several more posts would suggest a Basarib faction that becomes Wallachia.

[Visarion]

That is even better...

Regarding the name Ivanco of Ivanco Basarab probably had the same meaning as the title of "Io" used by Michael the Brave when he united Ungro-Vlachia, Transylvania and Moldavia, the short version of the Greek "Ioannes" meaning "Chosen by God" or from "From God's goodness and mercy" to represent the divine right to rule, a God chosen ruler, Ivanco or Ivanko being the Slavic version of the Greek Ioannes, title also used by Ivanko, Despot of Dobrudja of Pecheneg-Cuman origin, of the Bulgarian Asen dynasty. So I'm guessing the Cuman Khanate can be split into several factions like the Basarabids of Wallachia fallowed by the House of Dracula given the fact that Thocomerous is mentioned as an ally of Ladislaus Apor and Ladislaus Kan of Transylvania in 1307 against Ottokar of Bavaria by the Hungarians and the Slavs also mention a certain Toktomer or Toq-Tamir in 1295 in Crimea, the Golden Horde of the Tartars and the Crimean Khanate of the Kypchaks. Well other factions will have Cuman-Kypchak heritage too as the Mamluks of Egypt, Persia and India.

[Visarion]

Oh yeah forgot about the Nogai Horde of the Nogai Dynasty of the Manghit tribe so probably Basarabs, Tartars, Kypchaks and Nogais forming the Wallachian Voivodate, Golden Horde, Crimean and Nogai Khanates. That and maybe the Principality of Karvuna, later Despotate of Dobrudja of Balik, Dobrotitsa and Ivanko. Well Astrakhan Khanate too but of lesser importance.