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Thread: [Preview] Sparta

  1. #1
    KAM 2150's Avatar Artifex
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    Default [Preview] Sparta


    Overview
    After losing many wars, citizens and their former spirit, Sparta was just a shadow of former glory in the early 3rd century BC. It was still a force to be reckoned with but only slightly above other Greek states. The Homoioi (Full Spartan Citizens) population was small and their martial customs like the Agoge had beend abandoned, while they still retained disdain for other areas of culture or civic development. The Spartan army of the period was still made of hoplites, supported by their allied poleis, which also deployed hoplites for the army. Thureophoroi troops seemed to not develop there but they most likely got introduced to their subject cities. Their cavalry force was small - only those viewed unfit for the phalanx or punished for other offenses would serve on horseback. Although, each mora was supposed to be supported by cavalry. Light infantry was provided by Skiritai as stand alone units and by allied cities in the form of peltasts. The elite of the army would be a unit called Hippeis but, despite their name, they would fight as a phalanx. They numbered 300 and served as a personal guard of the king (That is why 300 remained with Leonidas).

    The army would remain as such until king Cleomenes III would introduce his reforms. He increased the number of Spartan citizens by bringing back banished Spartans and giving the land to mercenaries. He also rearmed part of the Spartan army in Macedonian style, forming his own pike units while native cavalry would be replaced by foreign hired horsemen. His new forces were very successful at first but, eventually, Cleomenes was decisively defeated by Antigonus III Dioson at Sellasia in 222 BC. This again pushed Sparta back.

    Sparta would fall into a dormant state until Nabis, the regent of adolescent king Pelops, would overthrow and kill the last legitimate monarch then proclaim himself the king (and tyrant by others). He exiled the nobles and divided the land to others. Many slaves were granted citizenship but the institution of helotry would remain. Nabis reconquered some of the lost lands and developed a Spartan fleet with a lot of help from Cretans, who were his allies. Later on, due to Roman influence, an unstable situation in Greece and constantly changing allies, Nabis' territory was reduced to just the city of Sparta. At this point, he formed an alliance with Antiochus III but, in the end, he got killed by Aetolians, who had been his allies. After that, Sparta ceased to exist as a political and military kingdom of any importance.

    This faction overhaul will be released with 1.2

    Units
    Sparta gets a full faction overhaul, with only a few old units remaining (which still got some changes here and there). While almost all units are historical armies of Sparta, they do get one Thorakitai sword unit, which they were never able to field as the state ceased to exist as a military power before even other Greek states were able to introduce such forces. Based on reformist approach of late Spartan rulers, I think that they probably would have soldiers fighting as Thorakitai.


    Spear Infantry
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    (Spartan Helots)
    Helots are the slaves of the Spartan kingdom. During times of need, the state arms them with weapons and basic means of protection. Their training is limited so that they do not pose a larger threat after the campaign.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    (Spartan Youths)
    Young Spartans, not yet ready to fight in a proper phalanx, are tasked with chasing off skirmishers in battle. Their tactics are one inspiration for the Iphicratean reforms of heavier peltasts. Due to their lighter equipment and extensive training, they are able to catch up with light units of other nations - not many can outrun them.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    (Allied Thureos Spearmen)
    While Spartan citizens practice almost exclusively hoplite warfare, the same cannot be said about their subject states. These troops are recruited from allies and mercenaries of the Spartan kingdom, fighting in the fashion of other Hellenic light spearmen.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    (Perioikoi Hoplites)
    Subjects of the Spartan kingdom are called to war to fight amongst the phalanx. While they are not Spartan citizens, their combat prowess is still above that of the average Greek, and they form a solid hoplite unit.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    (Spartan Hoplites)
    Homoioi, or "Similars," are men with full citizenship in Spartan society. They are just a shadow of Sparta's former glory and martial strength, but they still outclass other hoplites.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    (Reformed Spartan Hoplites)
    Due to the dwindling Spartan citizen population, late Spartan rulers have needed to increase the amount of avaliable soldiers through social reforms. Increased manpower and the return of old martial traditions like the Agoge are bringing back the old strength of Sparta.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    (Spartan Thorax Hoplites)
    These hoplites represent the final stage of Spartan social and cultural reforms. Their tactics may seem outdated but only a fool would not treat them as great threat on the battlefield.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    (Spartan Pikemen)
    A hundred years after the defeat of classical Greek troops at Chaeronea, Cleomenes III would decide to add a pike corps to his own armies. This change would not have been possible without the corresponding social reforms increasing the available manpower of the Spartan state.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    (Royal Spartan Bodyguard)
    Spartan Hippeis, despite their name ("Hippeis" meaning "cavalry"), fight as hoplite infantry. This unit is composed of Spartans in the prime of their lives, using the best equipment and training available. They accompany and protect the king at all times.


    Melee Infantry
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    (Skiritai Sworsdmen)
    Skiritai are equal to Perioikoi in their legal status but make up a distinctive part of the Spartan army. They are a reliable force and are often tasked with protecing the most vulnerable parts of a phalanx.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    (Allied Thureos Swordsmen)
    While Spartan citizens practice almost exclusively hoplite warfare, the same cannot be said about their subject states. These troops are recruited from allies and mercenaries of the Spartan kingdom, fighting in the fashion of other Hellenic swordsmen.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    (Spartan Thorax Swordsmen)
    Sparta during its last decades was more open to ideas of cultural and technological progress. This heavy sword unit is a Spartan interpretation of Thorax troops of other Hellenic factions.



    Missile Infantry
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    (Helot Javelinmen)
    Even the meanest slave can throw a javelin at an enemy.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    (Helot Slingers)
    Even the most stupid, recalcitrant slave can be taught to use a sling.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    (Helot Archers)
    A slave can pull a bowstring as well as any free man.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    (Skiritai Peltasts)
    The Skiritai are a people subject to Sparta. They live in Skiritis, a mountainous region located in northern Laconia on the border with Arcadia, between the Oenus and the Eurotas rivers.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    (Allied Peltasts)
    Sparta relies heavily on allies and mercenaries when it comes to light support troops. This unit of peltasts is made up of soldiers of different origins, but is still a powerful ranged force overall.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    (Allied Archers)
    Sparta relies heavily on allies and mercenaries when it comes to light support troops. This unit of archers is made up of soldiers of different origins, but is still a powerful ranged force overall.



    Cavalry
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    (Spartan Cavalry)
    Sparta is not famous for its cavalry, but it fields some nonetheless. The job of fighting on horseback is relegated to those unfit for the phalanx or as a form on punishment, but their expenses are paid by the wealthier citizens. Due to a lack of proper training and cavalry traditions, these horsemen generally perform poorly.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    (Allied Thureos Cavalry)
    Not all subjects of Sparta are able to provide heavy cavalry. These horsemen serve as fast skirmishers, providing ranged support to other troops.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    (Allied Cavalry)
    Even Sparta has noticed the importance of cavalry on the battlefield. Instead of trying to develop their own cavalry ethos, the later kings of Sparta rely on more skilled allies and mercenaries to provide reliable horsemen.


    Special Building Reforms
    - Sparta will have special reforms, Cleomenes and Nabis. These reforms happen at the same time as other Greek reforms (Thureos and Thorakitai). Along with receiving new units, these reforms also allow for the upgrade of the main Spartan city from tier 2 to higher levels. These higher levels have special effects, including a Reformed Agoge that acts like a military academy building.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    - Sparta also will receive new garrison units both for Sparta and for normal towns.


    Credits:
    Dresden for putting my ideas and unit descriptions into virtual reality.
    Augustusng for being patient comrade in the adventure to Ancient Greek
    Maetharin, Geffalrus and Tenerife_Boy for giving me ideas and pushing me further for greater authenticity

  2. #2
    KAM 2150's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Preview] Sparta

    Small Christmas gift

  3. #3

    Default Re: [Preview] Sparta

    Absolutely amazing preview. I must say these are the prettiest units DeI has, by far.
    "Duty is the great business of a sea officer; all private considerations must give way to it, however painful it may be" - Horatio Nelson.

  4. #4
    Argive Strategos's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: [Preview] Sparta

    Very Nice, Very Nice indeed. Love the Reforms and the diversity of the roster.

  5. #5

    Default Re: [Preview] Sparta

    Thanks Kam (and other DEI members). A more realistic interpretation of the Spartan roster. I wonder how they will fair as AI in the campaign. Will be interesting to watch there progress. Have a good Christmas.

  6. #6

    Default Re: [Preview] Sparta

    Can't wait to get play new sparta!


    They tried to tame you
    Looks like they'll try again

  7. #7

    Icon6 Re: [Preview] Sparta

    Amazing job DEI team i love it i am ready for 1.2!

    I also wanna add there are many historical Spartian unites like Argive Thorakite (Heavy Sword Infantry) > Spartan Thorax Swordsmen, Trophimoi Hoplites > Reformed Spartan Hoplites and many more.. TWH (Total War Hellas) has made an amazing job depicting historical accuracy of that age, There is more to add from my point of view than a poor unite robster.

    Last but not list i am modding DEI my self for my amusement so i would like to ask you from the developers eye can you make a real Spartan Hoplite unite that has a secondary weapon that is Laconian Short Sword ? (Only horse unites can have secondary weapons ?)

    ''Image that: when you activate Hoplite wall the unite will use Spear and Hoplon, when you deactivate hoplite Wall goes to Short Sword...

    See the link of the video at part 2:10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVrhvcQm9Qw Korivandes Real Hoplites

    One more thing can we add more historical weapons to DEI(Db->meele_weapon_tables->gsword for Hellinic unites, bsword for Barbaric and gladius for roman unites) ?

  8. #8
    KAM 2150's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Preview] Sparta

    We already have that in 1.2 version, you can use Spartans as spear hoplites when in formation and as swordsmen without formation.


    There is no point in adding more historical weapons to DeI as the game engine and combat system do not care about those, only their damage.

  9. #9

    Default Re: [Preview] Sparta

    Love it!

  10. #10

    Default Re: [Preview] Sparta

    Omg i like i know it ! great job Team !!!

  11. #11

    Default Re: [Preview] Sparta

    A Christmas surprise preview is always a good thing

  12. #12

    Default Re: [Preview] Sparta

    Do you have a release date? Every minute I wait is a torment.

    You do such an awesome job keep it up!

    Greetings and Merry Christmas!

  13. #13

    Default Re: [Preview] Sparta

    Great preview so far, no doubt. That new Pylos helmet tho! amazing I see me on the credits ^^

  14. #14

    Default Re: [Preview] Sparta

    Quote Originally Posted by N008er View Post
    Do you have a release date? Every minute I wait is a torment.

    You do such an awesome job keep it up!

    Greetings and Merry Christmas!
    We plan on having an open beta sometime around the new year.

  15. #15

    Default Re: [Preview] Sparta

    Great job guys...

  16. #16

    Default Re: [Preview] Sparta

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenerife_Boy View Post
    Great preview so far, no doubt. That new Pylos helmet tho! amazing I see me on the credits ^^
    I sneaked that in when I added more variety to the base greek helmets, was the old germanic pylos. Athens will also get a few new shields as well as colour refinment for sparta.
    Nice to see the more grainy helemt texture is working too!

  17. #17
    Civis
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    Default Re: [Preview] Sparta

    *whistles appreciatively

    That is some nice, nice work. Definitely liking this portrayal of Sparta for the time period.

    And I have to admit, the "Neohomoioi Phalangitai" is a rather elegant handling of how to represent Spartan Pikemen after the reforms of Cleomenes.

    Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!

  18. #18

    Default Re: [Preview] Sparta

    A question for Dresden:

    If Sparta was on open war with Rome at that time a peoriod can it win in battles (their armor, tactics , weapons , skills , agoge , ect) vs Roman Legions and all that stuff
    With out any distractions from other Hellinic faction or Roman alliances just 1 vs 1 Rome vs Sparta no dirty tricks and politics just open war on the field, Generals vs Generals , armys clashing armys .....
    Who will win SPARTA OR ROME!! ?

  19. #19
    KAM 2150's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Preview] Sparta

    Rome at all times, it would be a walk in a park for them, considering that Sparta was not even considered major player in Greece and Rom3 was about to crush 2 strongest states, except Rome, Carthage and Seleucids. Sparta was not even able to deal damage to Macedon, which Rome crushed rather easy.

  20. #20

    Default Re: [Preview] Sparta

    I believe Rome too.But it will not be easy without allys. All rome wars and vs macedonians and vs sparta and seleucids and gauls and britain won by allys.. Rome was the best at using devide and rule... So yes i believe that Rome could defeat sparta but without all the allys i don't believe that Rome would go to war in greece. It would be costly victory. Remember pyrros when he went to take sparta. It was not as easy as he thought. Even at this era

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