Is Germany suffering from extreme Nazi guilt?

[RedGuard]

My point was that war has propaganda, and the bigger the war is, the bigger the propaganda to boost the men's morale.

Applies from Carthage/Rome to WWI to WWII. Propaganda sometimes displays certain points and hides others. WWII is still recent. So when you speak of having "truth", there's a huge research job ahead, whose conclusions can't simply or easily be taught/explained in classroom.

quite the opposite. Because of the outrageous propoganda that was spewed from all corners in ww1, real atrocities in ww2 were not believed even though its now historical fact and irrefutable. The Katyn massacre was always known to be done by the soviets, but for political reasons the British and American government kept it covered up despite pleas from Polish intelligence on the ground. It was wise at the time to not drive a wedge between the allies and the USSR, lest one war end and start another which came dangerously close to happening at several times.

[fkizz]

quite the opposite. Because of the outrageous propoganda that was spewed from all corners in ww1, real atrocities in ww2 were not believed even though its now historical fact and irrefutable.

War is savagery, so by definition of course atrocities will exist.

The Katyn massacre was always known to be done by the soviets, but for political reasons the British and American government kept it covered up despite pleas from Polish intelligence on the ground. It was wise at the time to not drive a wedge between the allies and the USSR, lest one war end and start another which came dangerously close to happening at several times.

Before it was officially decided it was the Soviets who did Katyn, anyone who denied the Nazi Germany did Katyn wouldn't get the best of treatments if you get my drift.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Still waiting for you to explain your point regarding the relevance of propaganda to your point, fkizz.

[Heathen Hammer]

You're the only one bringing cross-generational guilt into things.

How dare I bring up the topic of this thread!

Banning nazism and being honest about the past does not imply individual guilt of modern Germans. It's scary that you equate historical fact with shame.

Banning anything isn't necessary and is just being used for political censorship ("you don't like Merkel accepting millions of economic migrants? You are a racyzz and a Nazi!11"). We already educated you on that concept in the neighboring thread, we don't need you derailing discussion here as well.

[Ludicus]

Sweden has been successfully cuckolded by deep rampant feminist ideology. They have succeeded in guilting their men and emasculating them to the point they`ve given it up, to their increasing detriment.

Gone are the days when Swedish men wore pants and women didn’t...

Germany is different. They didn`t need that much guilting by Feminism because the Nazi guilt was already there

Right, nazi guilt prevents feminism indoctrinating boys in feminist ideology.One disease prevents another disease. It's like malaria and sickle cell disease.

I had a feminist teacher bleating how sexism was the same as racism

You should have listened to your teacher. Sexism and racism have the same root: the "man is superior to the woman" and the "white man is superior to the black man".

you have a better chance with men

Obviously, the man is superior to the woman. Sexism/ racism are rampant here, congratulations.

Sukyama

the last few threads on topics like this have been making my head hurt.

I know, it's hard to believe...well, read above. On a a side note, Trump effect - Wikipedia

[RedGuard]

War is savagery, so by definition of course atrocities will exist.


Before it was officially decided it was the Soviets who did Katyn, anyone who denied the Nazi Germany did Katyn wouldn't get the best of treatments if you get my drift.

Sorry but what does either one of these responses have to do with the original point? You said the bigger the war the more necessary the propaganda, when clearly thats not true. WW1 needed propaganda because it was a stupid war and everyone knew it was a stupid war. WW2 wasn't a stupid war and what your calling propaganda were real events and were not exaggerations for "morale purposes". The Katyn Massacre is a bit of a strawman because it was done by a so called "ally" but covered up because of the political implications it would have for the peace conference and there was a desire on the part of the British and Americans not to turn public opinion against the Russians who were fighting and dying by the millions to end the nazi menace. The Cover up wasn't done to boost morale like the stories of the "Hun's savagery" perpetuated in WW1 were for the most part. In fact most people including the president willfully denied knowing about the holocaust, because of the way it would make the United States look for restricting immigration, when that could have been a powerful propaganda tool for the Allies.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Banning anything isn't necessary and is just being used for political censorship ("you don't like Merkel accepting millions of economic migrants? You are a racyzz and a Nazi!11").

No, this is you confusing censorship for freedom of speech. If you say something dumb, HH, and you get called a Nazi, you have not been censored. You still get to say your stupid shite. But other people still get to criticise you. You don't get a safe space, HH, people other than you have freedom of speech too. Views you don't agree with have a right to be aired too.

[KevinJacque]

I believe there Nazi past is indeed killing them . They feel a large guilt that I believe will hurt them then help them . In fact , this very guilt is pushing the people to a more right wing idealism. However , I feel the countries post ww2 should also feel guilty for being a direct contributor to the rise of Hitler Germany .

While I commend the Germans for there selfless acts. There way of dealing with this sort of crises is new to them which is why this is happening and why it'll hurt them. Creating camps where they should all go to instead of having them wonder the state is better but the very idea of Germany creating Camps would have such a backlash that it would further hurt Germanys image.

Just my 2 cents.


Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[fkizz]

Sorry but what does either one of these responses have to do with the original point? You said the bigger the war the more necessary the propaganda, when clearly thats not true.

You're assuming I mean propaganda means lying. No, Propaganda means anything that makes population more pumped up and moralized to fight and less likely to desert. Basically it's a method to help achieve military victory. It's what I mean with propaganda rather than "lies".

So a big war has much more logistics involved and that includes propaganda (be it Uncle Sam "I want you to serve" posters in much bigger numbers or anything else reaching a larger amount of people).

So when I say Propaganda it isn't necessarily on a pejorative term. May even have protective effect from enemy propaganda, and as such have a protective duty/effect.

WW2 wasn't a stupid war and what your calling propaganda were real events and were not exaggerations for "morale purposes".

By Propaganda I didn't mean Lies... Propaganda is part of Logistics of -any- War. During peace time with things cooled off it's easier to philosophize, but when you can have a bomb fall on you on the next hour, military victory appears as almost a physical necessity.

The Katyn Massacre is a bit of a strawman because it was done by a so called "ally" but covered up because of the political implications it would have for the peace conference and there was a desire on the part of the British and Americans not to turn public opinion against the Russians who were fighting and dying by the millions to end the nazi menace. The Cover up wasn't done to boost morale

Of course it was. Atributing Katyin to the Allies would have a demoralising effect on troops, and cause diplomatic problems with Soviet allies which would give Nazi Germany a new advantage.

Several people knew Katyn was done by NKVD under Soviet Union orders. It was no "big surprise". But said people couldn't say openly to a big theater who actually did Katyn without inviting trouble for obvious reasons.

[Heathen Hammer]

No, this is you confusing censorship for freedom of speech. If you say something dumb, HH, and you get called a Nazi, you have not been censored. You still get to say your stupid shite. But other people still get to criticise you. You don't get a safe space, HH, people other than you have freedom of speech too. Views you don't agree with have a right to be aired too.

No, this is just you changing goalposts again. We are discussing criminalization of certain forms of speech, in this context government interpreting criticism of its policies as "hate speech".

[removeduser_487563287433]

No, this is just you changing goalposts again. We are discussing criminalization of certain forms of speech, in this context government interpreting criticism of its policies as "hate speech".

Except there's no single example in the west of somebody being charged with hate speech because they criticised the Government's policies. No, HH, you confuse censorship for what in reality is legitimate criticism of your stupid ideas.

[Heathen Hammer]

Except there's no single example in the west of somebody being charged with hate speech because they criticised the Government's policies. No, HH, you confuse censorship for what in reality is legitimate criticism of your stupid ideas.

Another strawman from Ferrets? *yawns*

[removeduser_487563287433]

No, literally not what a strawman is, HH. A strawman is when you invent your opponent's argument, then argue against it instead. I have taken your argument - the idea that hate speech is used to prosecute critics of the Government - and pointed out this is bollocks.

[fkizz]

the idea that hate speech is used to prosecute critics of the Government - and pointed out this is bollocks.

There's abundant evidence of such similiar cases happening in sweden and germany right now.

[Ludicus]

Merkel is not destroying Germany. Reality check,
Bundeskanzlerin | Reconciling the imperatives of freedom and security
Merkel outlined a nine-point plan to increase security in Germany.

1) an early-warning system to identify radicalization among migrants;
2) an increase in staff at Germany's intelligence agencies;
3) an information technology office to focus on tracking internet communications between jihadists;
4) regular joint exercises with the police and the military to practice counter-terrorism measures;
5) expanding research on Islamic terrorism and radicalization;
6) improving European cooperation on intelligence sharing;
7) restricting the sale of weapons online;
8) a national registry to monitor people entering and leaving the country;
9) making it easier to deport asylum seekers who break the law.

[Humble Warrior]

Merkel is not destroying Germany. Reality check,
Bundeskanzlerin | Reconciling the imperatives of freedom and security
Merkel outlined a nine-point plan to increase security in Germany.

This is dated Jul 28, 2016.

What has she done since then? What have been the result of her actions? Tell people to sing Christmas songs and stick up road obstacles after the event?

There are people who never saw Christmas 2016 because of her doing nothing... All words.

[Raubritter]

You know i don't encounter many young people anymore who actualy have a problem with germanys Nazi past and more young people feel more worse because the germans lost the war. Ironicaly the lefti education system created this with their guilt tripp all the time telling people "see when germany is strong the germans just wage war and kill and suppress everyone else". And that makes the nazis more attractive. No one feels real pitty with the weak side, meaning the victims of nazi crimes, when instead they can be the strong side and get a nice Boss uniform on top of that. As soon the last Babyboomer bites the Dust this whole guilt stuff will be over and you have a generation of young men who lived on the recieving end of this rhetoric cause they had to visit schools where 50% to 90% percent of the other publis are forgeiners. Such an upbringing takes the tabu out of the Idea of Genocide and while i'am getting older now, i just don't care enough anymore to prevent that, simply because everyone gets what he deserves.

Merkel is not destroying Germany. Reality check,
Bundeskanzlerin | Reconciling the imperatives of freedom and security
Merkel outlined a nine-point plan to increase security in Germany.

The Nazis outlined some securty plans too when they burned down the parlament first. Now Mrs. Merkel wants to act as if she would protect the germans from a problem she helped to create in the first place? And then you have the audacity to call your narrow sighted remark a "Reality check"?
Quick Mrs. Merkel! We are just one law away from perfect!!!

[removeduser_487563287433]

There's abundant evidence of such similiar cases happening in sweden and germany right now.

Since its so abundant I'm sure you will now share your sources.

[fkizz]

Merkel is not destroying Germany.

Of course not, she's destroying Europe. Remember when you were anti-Merkel? Remember when you constantly commented on how Merkel constantly undermined EU?

Do you think her personality and modus operandi changed just because she made a cosmetic political move of helping refugees?

[removeduser_487563287433]

No sources on these "abundant" examples? What a surprise.