Read more on the Subject - the proto-Khazar Khaganate state became independant in the 860s, untill then the Bulgars were the dominant power north of the Danube for the last 200 years.As for the Bulgars they are more revelent to the Rise of Islam events than the Franks with Karl Martel fighting in Southern France at the Battle of Tours in 732(a small skirmish) compared with the Siege of Constantinople (717–718) - Khan Tervel saving Europe from the Arab Invasion became known as saint Trivelius in the west.If it wasnt for the Bulgars The Eastern Roman Empire would have fallen and maybe much of Europe later. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_...7%E2%80%93718)
And Lets not Forget Kubrat - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kubrat One of the mopst important allies to the great Heraclius
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A few points:
1. Armenia was not independent after 388. It would be better to put in the Lakhmid and Ghassanid Arabs as allies of the Sassanids/Romans respectively, to give some early game enemies to the Islamic Arabs that aren't too powerful.
2. The "White Huns" (Hepthaltites, actually a former vassal of the Rouran known as the Hua, not Huns) replaced the Kidarite (Khionites, "Red Huns") dynasty. By this time they had been greatly weakened by the Sassanid resurgence.
3. The Khazars weren't around yet, they would be an emergent faction out of the Gokturk Qaganate, technically.
4. The Battle of Tours was very important, not a "small skirmish" as you call it. Qagan Tervel played an important role in the Siege of Constantinople, harassing the starving Arabs, but Leo's ability to deceive the Arabs into giving him all their food was really what saved the city.
5. I would expand the map west since Roman North Africa was an important part of the conquest, along with Visigothic Spain, and Roman Sicily. Furthermore, including the Lombards in Italy is important during this period as well.
Last edited by Magister Militum Flavius Aetius; March 04, 2017 at 09:35 AM.
1.True.But From Gameplay stand point Armenia is agood mix between ERE and the Sassanids
2. Also true but most maps shows them as separe nations
3. Also True I used the word ''proto-Khazar Khaganate state'' for the same reason
4.The Western Front wasnt very important conflict and The Battle of Tours was a small skirmish - more likely a organised raid - nothing else from the Arabs who knew even then that they were totally overstretched 50 years before and didnt showed interest into the Frankish Realm. Why was a small skirmish/Raid? Because 90% of the total manpower of the Arabs/Muslim Armies were focused against the Balkans and Asia Minor. Where armies were from 60 000 to 200 000(including noncombatants as suply lines) and Comparing them with the The Battle of Tours where the arabs were from 6000 to 15 000 it shows it wasnt a big deal overall.On the Western Front the Battle of Toulouse (721) was more important than of Tours in 732.
The Tittle of the Bulgarian Rulers was ''Kanasubigi" and later was shortened to "Kan" - not Khan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanasubigi
5. Expanding the map west from Libya makes sence but the campaign will be copping the TLR campaign more or less. The Map above is already around 30-40% water so map expanding west with Italy,Spain Morroco will make the map 50-60% just sea regions.
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As for the Siege of Constantinople (717–718) At the start of the Arab Campaign the Kuber Bulgarians in Macedonia were allies to the Arabs,but when the Arabs started having problems with the lack of food, they started raiding Thrace and attacked the Danube Bulgarian part of northeastern Thrace - then the 2 Bulgarian Groups attacked together with the Romans as a revenge.The sources says exactly this... And lets not ignore the Arab sourses - it wasnt the Byzantian navy that won the day - from the Arab sourses the reason for their defeat were the Bulgarians not the Greeks. Just like 1000 years later at the Gates of Vienna the Polish Cavalry defeated the Ottoman Turks in 1683.For them the hole credit was the victory was to the Bulgarians from Arab point of view. For the Byzantians/Greeks they always had a bigger sence of pride than the rest of the Nations as superior at their time(even at the present day) so never forget that.
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I Believe it's hardly possible for them to make a game about American Civil War or Second World War. Total war is a smart series, They have always avoided Controversies and imagine people being able to play as Confederates or Nazis seems a little " Controversial " for them. Even if release them as unplayable there's always the modders and mods to change it.
And about the supposed new content. I'm a 100% sure it will be Alexander the Great for Rome 2. But Attila they left no clues, or no great historical campaign missing except the Islamic Expansion. I mean the last campaigns are foccused on great generals like Belisarius and Charlemagne. A Rise of Islam campaign would not have focus on any special general as the Rashidun's and the Umayyads expanded in separate times and separate directions. a Muhammad's conquest of Arabia would be a good campaign. but it's impossible as any deciption of the Prophet is forbidden. This left maybe the Campaigns and expansions of the Caliph Umar or Tariq ibn Ziyad's conquest of Hispania. as possible muslim campaigns. i really hope they optimize Attila too.
Of course a rise of Islam campaign would focus on caliphs Umar and Uthman, general Khalid bin Walid. It has very clear and string leaders during this time to focus it all on, also for the romans with Heraklius.
Honestly that was what I was looking forward to most, but it never happened.
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Me too. I've spent a lot of time making mod for Megas Alexandros only for them to release Rome 2 and destroy my apetite to play it. Now i dream with an Alexander campaign for Rome 2, and the day i will see that Oliver Stone film to inspire myself playing it.
And you are right Linke. A " Rise of the Caliphs " Campaign about the Rashidun. The early important Caliphs of Islam like Umar, Uthman and Others. With Heraclius and Yazdegerd III as a last stand of Rome and the Sassanids in the east.
It's a lot of ground to cover for a standalone campaign. This map would be good, but of course i expect a bigger map than this.
I Think factions could be Bizantines, Sassanids, Axum, Exarchate of Africa, Some Desert Tribes like Tanukhids or Bedouins ( Would be cool to find some Desert Nomads in the way ) and some other African and Caucasian tribes.
Well, Alexander campaign for R2 adding some features from attila would be probably the best option.... With expanding map a little into India
The Romans should own Carthage, Rome, Ravenna, Sicily, the Western Mediterranean Islands, Tingitania, and Baetica on that map. Also, where are the Moors? They would be very important thanks to Islam.
Also the Alans should still be around, they remained pretty important allies of the Romans into the 12th century. You're missing the Gokturks, Albania, and several others as well (such as the various Slavs in Poland, the Baltic states, etc).
Last edited by Magister Militum Flavius Aetius; March 06, 2017 at 10:46 AM.
I agree, but disagree. Any Rise of Islam campaign should be centered around, say - approximately Syria. The map should extend west to the Balkans and east deep into Persia for maximum gameplay effect (keeping the story about the Romans vs. the Sassanids vs. the Arabs)
While Sicily, North Africa, and Spain were important areas of Islamic conquest, it did not occur until approximately the turn of the 8th century, well outside the timeframe of a campaign involving Heraclius.
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Looking at those maps reminds me how much I would love a rise of the Ottoman Empire Total War title or DLC (Total War: Sulieman...one can dream). Sadly, for the next title I suspect and dread that they'll do something like Three Kingdoms and fill it with dumb stuff like legendary hero agents and dragons and other rubbish because of the success of Warhammer.
Back on topic: if they did release more content for Attila based on the Eastern side of the map, I'd be hitting the modding tutorials and forums and gauging interest in an Ottomans overhaul (already learned DB modding basics). Or helping anyone else who wanted to start such a project.
Whatever the case, all of the suggestions in this thread would make me very happy.
Would CA even do a rise of Islam DLC? It might be way too controversial. They could do Bulgaria or an Alexander campaign which I would LOVE to see. Perhaps even a Viking invasion campaign centred on Briton, though that was partially covered in AoC.
We need to leave the dark ages behind now. I really did not enjoy Warhammer. I have been waiting for a real TW for nearly 2 years now. What about one focussed on the 17th century, maybe moving in to the 18th. That threshold between aquibusiers and pikemen to completely line infantry formations in Europe. That would be so interesting. Like a Renaissance themed Europe. Also if not this, then something that goes into truly ancient European/ Middle Eastern history. Babylon, Persia, the Hittites etc. I wish they would stop with this Arena and Kingdoms nonsense and just focus on making single good content again, one body of good work, not a load of fragments of good work that you have to pay for in segments over a period of time.
Last edited by EireEmerald; March 13, 2017 at 05:47 AM.