New Attila Content in 2017

[Daruwind]

Lol ...i just hope you two do not represent an average history fan (myself being one) because as CA I would not produce anything for you....lost cause. Why? Won´t bother unless discount, won´t bother unless right time period, won´t bother unless major enough for my ego to care... Pls no offence but I have always divided people here into two categories: History vs Fantasy fans....now I think we should have three: History vs Fantasy vs Total War fans.

Blindly buying anything is also not the best way but as developer I would prefer at least little passionate fans...

CA saw the outcry for history content and is trying to get us something in meantime before next historical game which is still far future...Sadly it takes time. Look a few posts up. It took probably just half a year just to start rolling things out.... Campaign pack DLC should shorter our waiting for Saga game which will shorter waiting for next historical game...but to me, you are acting like "give us at least A game riiiiight now"...

[keona]

Well, I see your point and also understand where he is coming from. I wish CA have shown us what they were working, therefore, some of us would get excited while others say that not their thing (which is normal) and wait for reviews and discounts to try out that game. I personally bought Atilla in a heartbeat even after "capture the flag" Rome II. Many people, on the other hand, had their reservation regarding Attila after Rome II.

All I'm saying that CA should show us what they working on, tell us a time frame and be done with it. Just look at Warhammer, we knew from the start there will be three games. Fantasy fans know what to expect on the other hand we have historic crown who is tired of continuous lack of information and a constant veil of secrecy.

As long as we get 64bit engine the wait for Saga or DLC will be worth it.

[Theramines]

Yeah, I'm over the teaser stuff. It's just annoying.

[Dude with the Food]

Lol ...i just hope you two do not represent an average history fan (myself being one) because as CA I would not produce anything for you....lost cause. Why? Won´t bother unless discount, won´t bother unless right time period, won´t bother unless major enough for my ego to care... Pls no offence but I have always divided people here into two categories: History vs Fantasy fans....now I think we should have three: History vs Fantasy vs Total War fans.

Blindly buying anything is also not the best way but as developer I would prefer at least little passionate fans...

CA saw the outcry for history content and is trying to get us something in meantime before next historical game which is still far future...Sadly it takes time. Look a few posts up. It took probably just half a year just to start rolling things out.... Campaign pack DLC should shorter our waiting for Saga game which will shorter waiting for next historical game...but to me, you are acting like "give us at least A game riiiiight now"...

If I wasn't passionate I wouldn't have played every game in the series other than Warhammer and blindly bought near enough every dlc up until Attila. The fact is I got hundreds of hours from MTW, Napoleon and R2 and thousands more from Rome and M2. If I wasn't passionate come to the forums twice a day and have done pretty much for years now.

I don't like the feel of combat any more. Graphically - it feels off, that's part of the reason I have hundreds more hours on Rome 2 than Attila even though I can appreciate Attila is a better game. It just doesn't feel like the others did.

What put me off Warhammer wasn't because it was fantasy or Rome 2's release, it's because I couldn't imagine myself playing it for long. I was as hyped as anyone else, saw the trailers and thought it looked brilliant. The reviews came out and they said it was brilliant - it released and more of the same but even now, I still can't imagine getting the same value out of it I did other games. It looked like all the changes from R2 to Attila were extended and improved but that doesn't change the fact they felt wrong to me in the first place.


You wouldn't say CA shouldn't produce anything for me if you knew how many hours I've spent making faction rosters and maps for mods, overhauls and hypothetical TW games but not the ability to make myself. CA are obviously doing something right with the sales and team growing like they have but on a personal level and I can appreciate them for that but if I can't imagine myself playing future games then I have every right not to be paying for them either. If it does turn out that way then I'll admit I am a lost cause but that's not because I want to be.

And if you think I'm acting like "give us at least A game riiiiight now" then I'm sorry but you've misunderstood. What I was saying was gives us the title of a game right several months ago when they said they had 3 projects to announce and proceeded to not announce anything.


Ask CA for more passion from their fans again. They might need some in the future who aren't blind disciples and this is coming from someone who actually thought R2 was good on release.

[Darios]

Yeah, I'm over the teaser stuff. It's just annoying.

Same. Every few months or so I glance at TW's Facebook page and I see all sorts of information about upcoming Warhammer content. Fans know which factions they're going to get weeks (if not months) in advance.

Trying to get information regarding what historical content CA has planned is like trying to find a black cat in a dark room until they suddenly turn on the light a week before release. That's why the disappointment tends to be greater if it turns out to be something lackluster.

[Dude with the Food]

Except it's like at regular intervals there's a voice that says "Don't worry if you've not found the cat yet, I definitely put it in there."

[Daruwind]

Firstly sorry guys i was probably way too offensive in last post. :-) I´m just a few hours from WH2 release while visiting r/historicaltotalwar/ probably wasn´t the best idea.

One thing is, it is way easier for CA to hype Warhammer. For long year fans of Warhammer it is like LotR or Star Wars level of hype...especially if you spend a few years reading, fighting for your favourite faction..My heart beats for Ulthuan and Teclis. And because CA is so far quite true to lore and delivering probably the best intepretation of old lore it´s easy choice to get hyped. have you ever heard about abomination with name Age of Sigmar? They basically scrapped whole fantasy lore with such unbelieveable kick into butt. Just google it....that´s another reason why people see TW Warhammer as second coming of Christ.....nobody expected that we would ever return "home" in such style..

And that´s why I simply cannot imagine the same kind of hype for historic stuff. Roman/Sparta maybe as they are popular...but you simply cannot hype every Rome 2 factions for example Roxolani, Pergamon.. and compare it to any warhammer factions...nope ,will never happen.. But probably nobody have home miniature arm of spartans in such style:



About playing Warhammer for long. I´m quite collector so I have to get almost all achievements like in Shogun 2 to win with every clan. Playing campaign after campaign I forgot all details and majority of playthrough blurred together. But in Warhammer? Switching factions is like fresh start. Solving new problems, new tactics ... I can understand that if you prefer just one faction it is not enough forever but then I´m not that kind of guy I like changes. New things. :-)

[keona]

Very happy for you and all Warhammer fans. Sadly I cant share your excitement (I wish I could). Enjoy

[FrozenmenSS]

Personaly for me the problem is I didnt grew up with the Warhammer games/books/lore and so on and the Warhammer francise wasnt/isnt popular in my country nor with the friends around me,but Im not against TW:Warhammer - im neutral to the subject.There were/are more popular Fantacy franchises/universes in my country and this is from where im comming from.A person who only played 30 minutes of warhammer - just the tutorial and thats it.In matter of fact I heard of the franchise for the first time (i kid you not) only after CA took the rights for making Warhammer games when it was? 2011?2012? you can tell better,I cant remember when it was.



Im not in the hater camp of Warhammer or vs the anti fantacy camp,but I follow the Warhammer news/development/DLC policy from time to time and my Question is what Happens to the Fantacy Total War Games after Warhammer 3? Will CA go to other Fantacy,Sci-fi franchises/universes ? What About the future historical content that can use the Warhammer's Formula for expanding the map? Total War Victoria/WW1 game starting in 1885 or WW2 can be interesting. Like Africa,Asia and the pacific areas.

Total War:Lord of the Rings? The Sieges shoud be totaly redone the rest will be fine with a reskin.But the rights for Tolkin stuff have been expensive always.
Total War:Warcraft? People cry about Warcraft 4 for 15+ years but a Warcraft 4 wont come,so a is a good compromise. A Warcraft Trilogy with the same formula as Warhammer's one can pull it off... again.
Total War:Game of Thones? is a setting for a total War game? Few Factions on the campaing that look alike the British isles? A hard selling point...


Sci-fi - maybe but those total War Games will have nothing in common with the TW games that we have played to the present day.

[Daruwind]

Hi Frozen,

Actually I don´t think CA will do more fantasy either in short future. Warhammer is unique as whole universe was created with purpose to be game(s). You have multiple races with unique monsters, abilities, styles. Most things are easily represented in game like TW....that´s not usually available in most fantasy setting as they are primary books - like Tolkien, Sapkowski.. You would need another gaming universe like Age of Wonders series, Might and Magic to have such balanced system. Just imagine power level of Balrog in LotR...how we can compare factions/tactics with wars in Silmarillion where are dozens of them in each major battle? Way different power level. And as I said in other thread, Witcher, GoT have humans as dominated factions. There are Elves,Dwarfs,Gnomes in Witcher universe but most fights are done in normal medieval armies with just some mages. GoT has just undead/white walkers and rest are just different human factions with way low number of monsters or mages.

If they would do another fantasy. I would hope for Warcraft but that setting is also better for smaller scale campaigns. LotS is almost no brainer..but I actually fear tha even Age of Silmarillions would feel ...like copy. Eagles,Dragons, Elves, Dwarves, Goblin,Orcs,Balrogs as Deamons...you know Tolkien magic is way more subtle than Warhammer GoT is medieval as Attila/Med 2 with a few Dragons and one undead faction....

My point is, most of fantasy setting is build around stories while warhammer started with game system and expanded into lore, books....

And problem with most sci-fi or moderm time settings is that the combat is mostly long range with emphasis on vehicles/planes/spacecraft monile warfare. TWs are about open field battles which are after invention of artillery barrage or machine gun pretty much dead. Plus TW are utilizing bigger unit size for basic units and from WW1 (WW2) we see progress to squat size, battles are way to mobile, the same thing with stormtroopers in star wars or space marines in warhammer 40k.

I would actualy love to return to history game after Warhammer 3. And there is a lot to take inspiration. Like having unique systems for almost every factions. In Shogun 2 all factions are playing quite similarly. Only difference is religion for Ikki Ikki or Christianity. But i´m imaginating enhance system from Empire: Republics vs different versions of monarchy, different religions, may be ethnic system, may be even bigger autonomy for some of your vassals (CK2 inspiration?). I said it many times, Genghis Khan would be perfect setting as it allows quite different factions. Samurai in Japan, china Guys, Indian guys, Muslims....Almost all medieval Europe knights (this is just quite simplification )..

[FrozenmenSS]

If they would do another fantasy. I would hope for Warcraft but that setting is also better for smaller scale campaigns.

I Agree with what you said.Just did a fast test how a Warcraft Total War game can be represented with the 3 regions per province system and the result is actualy interesting and there is somekind of a balance.

White is the neutral regions,Orange evil factions,Red is the Horde and the Alliance - Blue... overall there somekind of a balance for a future TW campaign.Will we see it? Probalby after 10 years...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Daruwind]

Wow, that´s nice job! I was thinking about my playthroughs Warcraft 1-3 and had in mind these smaller campaigns but large scale map looks amd feels pretty epic. Well splitted land mass, biomes, factions. :-)

EDIT: actually I feel after warhammer I would really love some real history for change. Warcraft after Warhammer would be kind like "Warhammer 4" so really having Saga game,next historical title,expansion and then may be in far future .

BTW: If you know how Warcraft universe was created. Back in 90´s Blizzard wanted Warhammer license for "warcraft" game bad didn´t get deal with GW....so they created Warcraft which is accordingly to their own words heavily influenced by Warhammer. At least the old stuff.

[keona]

I've read that interview that both Warcraft and Starcraft is heavily inspired by Warhammer. I see a lot of similarities. I like Blizard representation way more than GW though.

[Daruwind]

So I found today this older post from CA_Grace (or just stumbled once more over it and get time to think about..) https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/co...ragon/dmuzui5/

It's not either/or. We currently have more historical releases planned for the next 12 months than fantasy. That includes DLC for a previous historical title, a Saga game and the next tentpole historical.

And that got my attention - there should be three projects released in next 12 months? First and second are old news BUT the third one - tentpole means big, important, main right? Like next historical title? Could it be? If I´m not mistaken, original plans were to publish WH 1 - 2 - 3 and THEN next major historical game. Plus if this should be really that major game....I would be pretty soon for actual development.

What bothers me....if the next major title was just behind the corner, CA could just announce it ....just small info without need to publish additional historical content. Because the game would be in actually pretty advanced development. Plus I don´t see reason why publish major title right now...it would be definitely followed by train of DLC, some kind of sequel like Attila.....basically putting halt to WH DLCs / hype..Don´t get me wrong, I like whatever content but this seems to be pretty bad marketing strategy. I can imagine a few "standalone" titles in between WH DLC train but major title with all further DLCs etc? Just my thoughts...it will put 1-1,5 year stop for WH or maybe CA will try to publish two main lgames concurrently? :-) Or could it be another "sequel" like Attila on 64 bits engine? Something bigger yet not the major title?

[Welsh Dragon]

So I found today this older post from CA_Grace (or just stumbled once more over it and get time to think about..) https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/co...ragon/dmuzui5/



And that got my attention - there should be three projects released in next 12 months? First and second are old news BUT the third one - tentpole means big, important, main right? Like next historical title? Could it be? If I´m not mistaken, original plans were to publish WH 1 - 2 - 3 and THEN next major historical game. Plus if this should be really that major game....I would be pretty soon for actual development.

What bothers me....if the next major title was just behind the corner, CA could just announce it ....just small info without need to publish additional historical content. Because the game would be in actually pretty advanced development. Plus I don´t see reason why publish major title right now...it would be definitely followed by train of DLC, some kind of sequel like Attila.....basically putting halt to WH DLCs / hype..Don´t get me wrong, I like whatever content but this seems to be pretty bad marketing strategy. I can imagine a few "standalone" titles in between WH DLC train but major title with all further DLCs etc? Just my thoughts...it will put 1-1,5 year stop for WH or maybe CA will try to publish two main lgames concurrently? :-) Or could it be another "sequel" like Attila on 64 bits engine? Something bigger yet not the major title?

Key thing to remember is the Warhammer side of CA and the Historical side of CA are basically separate entities within CA, and even within those they have multiple teams (currently 2 for Warhammer and 3 for Historical, and not to forget CA Sofia who must be doing something so could be one of those teams.) CA's Historical team have probably been working on the Next Major Historical since before Attila came out (as Historical New Content makes the DLC,) so if it releases in say December 2018, that's three years of development, and they could have even had some people working on it earlier.

As for Hype, I think the reason that we haven't heard anything more yet is to focus on Warhammer 2. But Warhammer 2 has been released, and given the nature of the part of the world it's set in and the monumental task that is Mortal Empires, I don't think we're going to see quite the rush of DLCs soon after Warhammer 2's release. If so, next couple of months might be a good time to get out the Campaign DLC, and then have Saga come out middle of next year, with Next Major Historical at the end of the year.

As for future titles, It was 16 months between Warhammer 1 and 2, so add another 16 months and a January 2019 release for Warhammer 3 isn't out of the question. If the next Major Historical were to be released in the last few months of 2018, it could slot nicely into a gap between the tail end of Warhammer 2 and the build up to Warhammer 3. Yes there'd be some DLC overlapping with Warhammer 3, but could work.

I think moving forward some overlap between the latter half/third of the Warhammer Trilogy and the various historical projects is inevitable, but that's okay. The player base is also not universal. Some only play Warhammer, some prefer it if they have the choice, some only play Historical, some prefer it if they have the choice, and some play everything! As long as they don't launch right on top of each other I think a little overlap will be fine. I'd rather that than another few years of only Warhammer.

All the Best,

Welsh Dragon.

[Abdülmecid I]

I think it's beyond any reasonable doubt that there are no different teams in CA. We have already covered three times the normal time space required for the release of the next TW game and its content hasn't even been announced yet. Even CA itself admitted in November 2016 that allegedly only then they began to seriously preoccupy themselves with the next historical title. It's a very reasonable policy, as doubling your expenses (hiring employees, renting new buildings, buying the necessary equipment and etc.) to release two similar games simultaneously would be financially suicidal and therefore utterly stupid. Anyway, I don't believe that Grace's comment is very meaningful. The saga and the new DLC had been announced precisely because many potential customers had been disappointed over the Warhammer II trailer with the Lizard pyramids, which they somehow mistook for a colonial themed TW game. Consequently, that means that these three releases will not be scheduled so densely, as that would defeat the original purpose of the saga and the DLC, temporarily satisfying the "history" crowd, so that it can wait until 2020 for the next complete historical game.

Moreover, Grace's claim is contradicted by CA itself, which in November 2016 had mentioned that years will pass before the release of the next historical game, by the previous example of CA announcing its upcoming games more than a year before their release date and by common sense. Suggesting that only one DLC will be released for Warhammer II in the next year, as it was implied in Grace's comment, is absolutely preposterous. Essentially, I think that this reddit post is too controversial and weird to try to extract any important conclusions.

[Welsh Dragon]

I think it's beyond any reasonable doubt that there are no different teams in CA. We have already covered three times the normal time space required for the release of the next TW game and its content hasn't even been announced yet. Even CA itself admitted in November 2016 that allegedly only then they began to seriously preoccupy themselves with the next historical title. It's a very reasonable policy, as doubling your expenses (hiring employees, renting new buildings, buying the necessary equipment and etc.) to release two similar games simultaneously would be financially suicidal and therefore utterly stupid. Anyway, I don't believe that Grace's comment is very meaningful. The saga and the new DLC had been announced precisely because many potential customers had been disappointed over the Warhammer II trailer with the Lizard pyramids, which they somehow mistook for a colonial themed TW game. Consequently, that means that these three releases will not be scheduled so densely, as that would defeat the original purpose of the saga and the DLC, temporarily satisfying the "history" crowd, so that it can wait until 2020 for the next complete historical game.

Moreover, Grace's claim is contradicted by CA itself, which in November 2016 had mentioned that years will pass before the release of the next historical game, by the previous example of CA announcing its upcoming games more than a year before their release date and by common sense. Suggesting that only one DLC will be released for Warhammer II in the next year, as it was implied in Grace's comment, is absolutely preposterous. Essentially, I think that this reddit post is too controversial and weird to try to extract any important conclusions.

I disagree on a few things.

That they have multiple teams has been repeatedly stated (here, amongst other places) and is consistent with the way CA has operated for most of the history of Total War, since something like Medieval 1/Rome 1. CA's also expanded significantly in the past few years, from about 300 staff members a couple of years back, to over 500 now, so seems reasonable to me that they've been expanding their existing Big Teams (Historical, Warhammer) and introducing new ones (New Content Teams for both games instead of just one, and the Flashpoint/Saga team.)

I also disagree that what Grace said implies that there will be only one DLC for Warhammer 2 next year. I read it as either she's comparing big releases (Historical's "particularly large Campaign DLC, Saga and maybe Next Major Historical, vs Warhammer's... Warhammer 2 and smaller DLC,) or that the combined total of games and DLC for those three Historical projects exceeds what they have planned in terms of DLC for Warhammer 2.)

That said, I would be surprised to see the Next Major Historical arrive before Warhammer 3, but at the same time I'm not discounting it either. Ah well, whatever happens, that I have more content for Rome 2 (probably) and a standalone Historical Saga Title to look forward to makes me happy. (Just hope I don't have the same problems I have with Warhammer and Attila and my health problems.)

All the Best,

Welsh Dragon.

[LinusLinothorax]

It should be clear that the historical team is pretty much non-existent since the development of Warhammer. It has been two years since Charlemagne. Two years is normally the time it takes to develop an entirely new TW game and yet here we are, still waiting for the announcement of a campaign DLC for Attila / Rome II which will most likely recycle atleast 50% of the vanilla units.

[keona]

So I found today this older post from CA_Grace (or just stumbled once more over it and get time to think about..) https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/co...ragon/dmuzui5/



And that got my attention - there should be three projects released in next 12 months? First and second are old news BUT the third one - tentpole means big, important, main right? Like next historical title? Could it be? If I´m not mistaken, original plans were to publish WH 1 - 2 - 3 and THEN next major historical game. Plus if this should be really that major game....I would be pretty soon for actual development.

What bothers me....if the next major title was just behind the corner, CA could just announce it ....just small info without need to publish additional historical content. Because the game would be in actually pretty advanced development. Plus I don´t see reason why publish major title right now...it would be definitely followed by train of DLC, some kind of sequel like Attila.....basically putting halt to WH DLCs / hype..Don´t get me wrong, I like whatever content but this seems to be pretty bad marketing strategy. I can imagine a few "standalone" titles in between WH DLC train but major title with all further DLCs etc? Just my thoughts...it will put 1-1,5 year stop for WH or maybe CA will try to publish two main lgames concurrently? :-) Or could it be another "sequel" like Attila on 64 bits engine? Something bigger yet not the major title?

Yep, I was excited when I saw it on Sep 12th. You probably missed my post about it with the link to the exact same information (look for my post on Sep 12th). I was shocked by how close they want to release everything. I think it was a mistake. In next 12 month, they will release two minor titles and will announce main historic title at something like E3 2018. I agree why not announce something.

It should be clear that the historical team is pretty much non-existent since the development of Warhammer. It has been two years since Charlemagne. Two years is normally the time it takes to develop an entirely new TW game and yet here we are, still waiting for the announcement of a campaign DLC for Attila / Rome II which will most likely recycle atleast 50% of the vanilla units.

Wow you right, this is craaaaaazy how long its been since any historic content was released. I really hope CA were using this time never to repeat what has happened to Rome II and finally decided to upgrade the engine to 64bit one. I hope that what they did for past two years. Thx for mentioning how long its been since AOC. No wonder historic fans are thirsty for any info related to next historic content.

[Daruwind]

Right Keona I missed your post! :-) Plus I agree with you and Abdul that this is probably mistake and that the third thing will be just announcement. As if this would be really a forth project....well they would probably just say something alongside Saga / campaign pack...

About the development. More teams mean less blank windows between projects. However the player base is just finite. We have a lot of history fans, newer fantasy fans plus general TW fans. Any project can catch eyes of two of these three groups but if they have two concurrent projects...well they will compete with themselves to get more attention. That´s probably baaad money strategy even if CA is making good money right now.

Two years for development is actually enough if they are not messing with engine. Else they need more likely 3-4 years.. And I think we all hope they are changing things ;-)