[Release] Public Battle Balancing (01/12/16)

[Gamersville101]

so wondering if theres anyway i can get access to the mod with the unit skins of ROM mod :B

[Commissar Caligula_]

Epic who made the UI designs?

The unit cards were made by a guy called Cyrius PT, whilst Lord Ellessar made the UI, the main menu background is made by CordobezWeee, faction symbols are made by Mr.Jox (with a lot of help from Enpremi and finix) and the mod logo is made by Vikus van de Merwe.

would love to keep supporting this mod on youtube, im getting ready to provide videos to the public about this as we speak! i know you mainly go through THFE Productions but would love to get involved
cheers

so wondering if theres anyway i can get access to the mod with the unit skins of ROM mod :B

For Youtubers to get access to the mod, send a message to both Vikus van der Merwe and Mr.Jox http://www.twcenter.net/forums/membe...s-van-de-Merwe and http://www.twcenter.net/forums/member.php?187100-Mr-Jox
For ordinary fans to get access, just hope that Vikus or Mr.Jox will randomly choose you to get access. I don't think there's an actual process behind it, just hope they notice you somehow.

[Commissar Caligula_]

Also what are peoples thoughts on all cavalry losing the ability to dismount?
If they're mounted at the moment then cloak models clip through the horse.
If we change the cloak model so it sits on top of the horse kinda, then when the unit dies or dismounts it looks really .
So we've either gotta remove dismount which I personally never use (do the rest of you?) or remove cloaks from cavalry which makes them look really plain.

Edit: The balancing is made for Ultra unit size by the way, does a lower unit size stuff anything up?

[SmithErik]

Dismounting is an important part of combat, removing it removes tactics and many great strategies, We can live with a bit of clipping. wheres cloak on top of the horse is a terrible idea.

[Teutonic]

I too like the option of dismounting cavalry, e.g. for sieges.

[Mr.Jox]

Dismounting is an important part of combat, removing it removes tactics and many great strategies, We can live with a bit of clipping. wheres cloak on top of the horse is a terrible idea.

Capes on horses is a realistic way of representing knights. Dismounting is a good option to combine two versions of knights so no one will ask whether there'll be a dismounted version but thanks to cloak this wont happen. Besides that I was told shock cavalry is not allowed to have a dismounting option. But Gondor and Dale Cavalry plus some Rohan units will be allowed to.

[Nikoline]

Feedback 1.02patch:
After I played several battles.
Mordor:
1:Both Guards of teeth and Mongul legion's ability:Formation really doesn't useful.And Formation works more like shield wall rather a pike formation.It can't keep the distance between the enemy or fight better when in formation.I make several battle to test them,they form formation or not,the number of killing really don't change a bit....
2:Orc pikes is very weak,they can't even kill a single enemy even they charg straight toward their deadly:-) pikes.

Gondor:
1.Gondor pike infantry works perfect against charging enemy,BUT after enemy stop charging,enemt can still engage the pike infantry in a very close distance,seems they can't keep the distance.Another problem is the battle soon become very slow,both pike and enemy hard to kill each other...takes too much time to end one small fight.
2.Gondor heavy horseman should run slower than low tier Gondor light cavalry.

Overhaul problem:
1.Orcs and Uruk do move faster than human,but it's little bit too fast,special consider about wearing those rough and heavy armor.
2.Formation Attack can destroy a unit.With the Formation attack ability on,units always make nonsense move and cut into the enemy's formation,sometimes the one side of the unit is fighting,and the the other side of this unit just look forward,waving their sword and do nothing.To be honest,formation attack is ruin the game experience,that's reasonable why CA cancel formation attack in Attila. This is my opinion though...
3.This is the most important one!!Battle last too long. No matter the high tier against low tier,pike against shield(this one is the longest).I mean,great damage make while charging,but after charge,everyone is peace fighting.Two hand weapon unit can't break the enemy's formation quickly and they die slowly.No matter the tier of Shield infantry,they calways have a long stand with any other kind of unit.A small battle 3V3 took me 30 minute... My suggestion is buff the high tier and d-buff the low tier to make them can kill each other easier.Also pike and polearm infantry are the elite infantry unit in Mordor,they still need to be stronger.
Unit banlance takes much time,take it easy.

This mod is getting better,I'm looking forward its model!!!

[Alkar]

Feedback 1.02patch:
After I played several battles.
Mordor:
1:Both Guards of teeth and Mongul legion's ability:Formation really doesn't useful.And Formation works more like shield wall rather a pike formation.It can't keep the distance between the enemy or fight better when in formation.I make several battle to test them,they form formation or not,the number of killing really don't change a bit....
2:Orc pikes is very weak,they can't even kill a single enemy even they charg straight toward their deadly:-) pikes.

Gondor:
1.Gondor pike infantry works perfect against charging enemy,BUT after enemy stop charging,enemt can still engage the pike infantry in a very close distance,seems they can't keep the distance.Another problem is the battle soon become very slow,both pike and enemy hard to kill each other...takes too much time to end one small fight.
2.Gondor heavy horseman should run slower than low tier Gondor light cavalry.

Overhaul problem:
1.Orcs and Uruk do move faster than human,but it's little bit too fast,special consider about wearing those rough and heavy armor.
2.Formation Attack can destroy a unit.With the Formation attack ability on,units always make nonsense move and cut into the enemy's formation,sometimes the one side of the unit is fighting,and the the other side of this unit just look forward,waving their sword and do nothing.To be honest,formation attack is ruin the game experience,that's reasonable why CA cancel formation attack in Attila. This is my opinion though...
3.This is the most important one!!Battle last too long. No matter the high tier against low tier,pike against shield(this one is the longest).I mean,great damage make while charging,but after charge,everyone is peace fighting.Two hand weapon unit can't break the enemy's formation quickly and they die slowly.No matter the tier of Shield infantry,they calways have a long stand with any other kind of unit.A small battle 3V3 took me 30 minute... My suggestion is buff the high tier and d-buff the low tier to make them can kill each other easier.Also pike and polearm infantry are the elite infantry unit in Mordor,they still need to be stronger.
Unit banlance takes much time,take it easy.

This mod is getting better,I'm looking forward its model!!!

Orcs just move 13% faster if I remember correctly, that's quite reasonable.

Also what are peoples thoughts on all cavalry losing the ability to dismount?
If they're mounted at the moment then cloak models clip through the horse.
If we change the cloak model so it sits on top of the horse kinda, then when the unit dies or dismounts it looks really .
So we've either gotta remove dismount which I personally never use (do the rest of you?) or remove cloaks from cavalry which makes them look really plain.

Edit: The balancing is made for Ultra unit size by the way, does a lower unit size stuff anything up?

I figure dismounting would be crucial for armies composed of cavalry alone. That is a viable strategy to take, for faster movement speed on the campaign map, then dismounting as necessary in a battle. This is what a lot of horse societies would do.

[♔atthias♔]

Orcs just move 13% faster if I remember correctly, that's quite reasonable.





I figure dismounting would be crucial for armies composed of cavalry alone. That is a viable strategy to take, for faster movement speed on the campaign map, then dismounting as necessary in a battle. This is what a lot of horse societies would do.

I agree whit alkar in regards to dismounting

[Don Juan_de_Austria]

Edit: The balancing is made for Ultra unit size by the way, does a lower unit size stuff anything up?

I can only speak for the first released version:

I did two testbattles with the same unit constelations as in my first battle, but this time moved half-range of the orc archers and let them again fire all their ammunition on me.

Here the result of the first battle - unit size small:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Then I did the battle again, but this time with unit size ultra(or hoever the biggset unitsize is called):

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

When comparing the two results one can easily see, that significant differences are not really existent. Where they seem, it is mostly due to the fact, that some archers went into melee.
That´s because the AI had, in the second battle, their troops cast over the whole length of their part of the battlefield, therfore the archers in the center had already shot their ammunition when the archers of the flanks had just shot some salves. So some archers without ammunition engaged melee. And that is why I think that the significant differences in loss on my side are melee deaths and therfore must taken aside.
A further difference to the first battle was, that the archers from their left flank shot my Skirmishers and my Ithilian rangers, simply because they where the first troops to come into their range of fire when engaging my center, so this are nearly 200 kills more for them.

So my conclusion is that, at least in the first version, there is no significant difference between unit balance for small and huge unit size. In my tests the performance was always in relation to the unit size.

But keep in minde, that this are just "standard" battles without any tactical unit movements and positioning. With proper use one can get even 200 kills with a Gondor Bowmilitia.

[ask0901]

Will you implement unit symbols based on which faction the unit belongs to, like in the picture from the Seven Kingdoms mod below? I think that would have been really nice. Maybe even combine the faction flag/symbol and the type of unit (i.e. archers, longbows, infantry, heavy infantry etc..).

[Commissar Caligula_]

Will you implement unit symbols based on which faction the unit belongs to, like in the picture from the Seven Kingdoms mod below? I think that would have been really nice. Maybe even combine the faction flag/symbol and the type of unit (i.e. archers, longbows, infantry, heavy infantry etc..).

I'm sure the Seven Kingdoms team would let us copy their idea, but its just ripping off their unique idea lols. We want to do our own fancy stuff.
I'd like unique unit category icons per faction, eg orcs get a vicious looking halberd as their spear icon, but its up to the UI guy who'd make it pretty much.
Probably a no to the Seven Kingdoms idea though just because it'd be copying, plus unit categories make it easier to distinguish units on the battlefield rather than all your units having the same faction flag (flag + type would fix that as you said).

[ask0901]

Yeah, I understand. It's just so much better than in the vanilla game. Good to hear that you're planning on creating custom icons (cause I just can't take those amateur ones in Attila)! I made a few custom ones right now, very fast, just to show how I think it may can look like:

[ask0901]

I think as long as it gives the player a uniqe feeling to the faction - it will be good. Attilas UI is too user friendly - it gives no feeling that you're leading a faction, and fails to provide the factions uniqeness/characters. Keep up the very good work!!

[Empire_tw281]

Please tell me the olog-hai are gonna actually have an area of effect damage when hitting these guys because they look lame in a fight.

[Empire_tw281]

More ammo for archers. I remember in the battle of five armies reading on a wikipedia webpage that the elves and men routed then regrouped and counter attacked. Yet the men in this don't rout so easy when overwhelmed and when they counter attack there is just like two or three guys.

[TheRomanRuler]

Coolcoolcoolcool great Wish i could help, but for some reason in Shogun 2/Rome 2/Attila TW/Warhammer TW it always feels like units that AI uses to murder me are absolute joke when i try to use them, and units that i think did not contribute anything actually got the most kills. And it takes me forever to find army that works for me, army that i love on paper often does not work as well in practice. Maybe bayonet era which i fell in love with Napoleon TW has spoiled me, or i just never was good general in pre-bayonet era to begin with. In any case, i am pretty certain i would end up hurting the balance more than helping it.
I hope you get plenty of good testers and feedback! And i hope you enjoy playing this mod yourselves and thus keep contributing your awesome work to it

When you launch the mod 1.0, remember to have thread where only people who have worked on the mod post 1 message each so that we can +rep you all.

[CorpHix42]

Hello im still testing this mod but so far a few things. I really like your idea behind making heavy armor units good at holdong a line while lower tier units do the most dmg plz dont break away from this too much it makes all units have roles. now isengard wolves seem pretty weak atm but they are supposed to be (im my opinion) anti cav cavalry witch i think wouyld be really neat if u can do that, it would hold to the lore and at the same time give isengard a cool faction only unit and i kinda think that would be great to to for all/most of the factions...mordor has fast units and trolls,isengard has anti cav cavalry,rohan has great missle cav and spear units ect. great job so far keep up the great work

[wolfBTM]

I think the idea that heavily armored units have lower stats is interesting, but should not be applied to everything. While it could add an interesting level of strategy from separating most units into different roles, this can also be done with just melee defense and melee attack stats. I like the idea, and I understand the reasoning behind it, but I believe that some elite units that are heavily armored would still be potent attacking forces, for example, some elite elves or dwarves. The armor would not weigh them down significantly as they would be trained and conditioned for it.

Feel free to let me know your thoughts about it so I can give better feedback.. I do not know a lot about the modding process, but I think I can still give conceptual feedback and feedback about unit balance.

[CorpHix42]

ok after more testing....Mordor=ALL pikes need pike wall not spear wall,morgul orcs need more melee def,orc warriors need a bit less melee def.,serv. of the eye maybe need a scare/fear passive.
Isengard=uruk-hai needs a bit more armor (they have some of the best in the books/movies), and all wargs for evil factions should be like super shock cav or have a big bonus vs large

ok off to test some of the not so evil factions lol