legio lanciarii?

[AntonioHundangir]

Why in both ib2 vandalorum and britannia campaigns there isnt a unit of lanciarii? Maybe they wasnt in use more in v century or simply there wasnt space for new units? Should use exculcatores instead of they?

[midnite]

Why in both ib2 vandalorum and britannia campaigns there isnt a unit of lanciarii? Maybe they wasnt in use more in v century or simply there wasnt space for new units? Should use exculcatores instead of they?

IB2 vandalorum has them -- Legio_Lanciarii
britannia has them -- Legio_Lanciarii

both are in the edu file. They should also be in the campaign

[Riothamus]

Why in both ib2 vandalorum and britannia campaigns there isnt a unit of lanciarii? Maybe they wasnt in use more in v century or simply there wasnt space for new units? Should use exculcatores instead of they?

True as Midnite said. There is a process the building tree before they are available. They are less available in the Britannia Mod. Yes AntonioHundangi. The 5th century is the time more so for the Esculcatores and less the Lanciarii type palace guard field unit.

[AntonioHundangir]

So they re recruitable in some way even?

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

I'm not sure what you're getting at there Rio, all late Roman regiments had dedicated units of skirmishers, usually about half the Legion was equipped for missile support. There is the case of the unit known as the Lanciarii Lauriacenses (Notita Dignitatum, last updated c.428 AD) but we don't know if they had a specialist role or may have been named for their aptitude with a weapon like the Herculani and Iovani were.

Exculcatores, Exploratores, etc. were scouts, a role anyone could effectively serve in. You had some of these in every unit.

[Reno Melitensis]

My guess is that after the reforms of Constantine, these units where detached permanently from their parent legion. They then got their own names but still retained the Lancerii title. Comitatensis Legions where too small to have sufficient man power to have their own dedicated skirmishing detachment. Almost every region in the ND have a dedicated Lanciarii unit.

Cheers

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

Comitatensis Legions where too small to have sufficient man power to have their own dedicated skirmishing detachment.

About half a Legion, Cohort, or Numerus was dedicated to missile support both in field battles and in skirmishing duties. We have this from the Strategikon itself (which mind you, deals with much smaller infantry units called Bandai which were typically 200 men). Some of these men were archers, although probably more were armed with quivers of Plumbatae and Verruta.

[Riothamus]

I'm not sure what you're getting at there Rio, all late Roman regiments had dedicated units of skirmishers, usually about half the Legion was equipped for missile support. There is the case of the unit known as the Lanciarii Lauriacenses (Notita Dignitatum, last updated c.428 AD) but we don't know if they had a specialist role or may have been named for their aptitude with a weapon like the Herculani and Iovani were.
Exculcatores, Exploratores, etc. were scouts, a role anyone could effectively serve in. You had some of these in every unit.

Lanciarii appears to be a guard infantry unit then also later into a cavalry unit before this mod. Exploratores were more of a reconnaissance or an intelligence gathering force. They are more like specialized scouts as this unit was highly mobile through terrain and effective in hit and run tactics. This unit was more a 5th century unit than the Lanciarii several centuries before. They were valuable within the main body of the Roman army if used correctly. They are a lightly armed 5th century crack force unit. We have alowed the existense of both units to exist with their specific AOR and building requirnments. What are you missing here Aetius?

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

Lanciarii appears to be a guard infantry unit then also later into a cavalry unit before this mod.

I'm not sure where you're getting that information. The primary sources don't show a unit named "Lanciarii" graded anything above Palatina and that's the Lanciarii Seniores and Lanciarii Juniores, which were field army units. The concept that Palatinae served as imperial guardsmen is a misconception perpetuated in no small part by RTW:BI and probably Attila:TW as well.

The only guard units in this time period were the Protectores Domestici which were now a placeholder unit for people earmarked for military or administrative office and the Schola Palatina, which seems to have existed until the 450's in the West and would become the basis for the Skholai Tagmatic unit in the East. Of these 40 men called the Candidati were personal guards of the Emperor.

There is the exception of the Placidi Valentiniani Felices but that is only a theory which says they were formed out of Galla Placidia's Gothic Bucellarii.

What are you missing here Aetius?

It seemed like you were implying that Lanciarii had been replaced when in reality they always had and always would constitute a significant portion and important role within the Legion.

For more on Exploratores, Praeventores, and Exculcatores see this paper here: https://www.academia.edu/3677169/_Sc...3_2014_474-501

[Riothamus]

I'm not sure where you're getting that information. The primary sources don't show a unit named "Lanciarii" graded anything above Palatina and that's the Lanciarii Seniores and Lanciarii Juniores, which were field army units. The concept that Palatinae served as imperial guardsmen is a misconception perpetuated in no small part by RTW:BI and probably Attila:TW as well.

The only guard units in this time period were the Protectores Domestici which were now a placeholder unit for people earmarked for military or administrative office and the Schola Palatina, which seems to have existed until the 450's in the West and would become the basis for the Skholai Tagmatic unit in the East. Of these 40 men called the Candidati were personal guards of the Emperor.

There is the exception of the Placidi Valentiniani Felices but that is only a theory which says they were formed out of Galla Placidia's Gothic Bucellarii.



It seemed like you were implying that Lanciarii had been replaced when in reality they always had and always would constitute a significant portion and important role within the Legion.

For more on Exploratores, Praeventores, and Exculcatores see this paper here: https://www.academia.edu/3677169/_Sc...3_2014_474-501

I answered to the question by AntonioHundangir and it was for both the Britanniae and Vandalorum mods. They are both recruitable depending upon AOR and building tree construction. In the Britanniae mod they are not as readily available but they are in the mod. That was the answer to the initial question. As to their functions or status, much is debatable. Fifth century Western Empire, especially in the second half had become quite desperate and I believe creative in their use of unit types. That is entirely a separate to the initial question asked but thank you for your input on it.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

Fifth century Western Empire, especially in the second half had become quite desperate and I believe creative in their use of unit types.

Well to be honest they probably didn't have "unit types." That's an artificial construct as a result of the game.

[Riothamus]

Well to be honest they probably didn't have "unit types." That's an artificial construct as a result of the game.

Yes..This is what makes a game and is what modders have to work with. It is actually the genius of the game. There were heavy and light types infantry and cavalry in reality...Spearmen, archers etc. It is just a magnified, glorified version of reality created by RTW-BI and I think it is simply what it is

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

Yep. I miss RTW modding, I'll have to get back into it when I'm out of college. Right now can't do much more than be a historical advisor.