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Thread: L'Italia medioevale. mod concept and map

  1. #1

    Default L'Italia medioevale. mod concept and map

    L'Italia Medioevale



    A mod recreating the struggle Between the powerful Italian cities and families of the 14th Century

    Map and regions preview.



    Check out the map http://martinengo.co.nz/fullsize.tga I'm working on and post comments.

    As you can see it's Italy in all it's beauty! I still have alot of work to do in order to make it playable. But here you can get an idea of the regions and major factions I hope to be able to include.
    L'Italia Medioevale concepts:

    Politics replacing religion. Italy in 1300ad was dominated by political strife.
    In the north Geulfs were struggling to bring their factions under the authority of Rome and the ghiberlines were fighting to remain loyal to the Holy Roman Empire.
    Many cities in the north were Principalities in their own right and wanted to keep it that way. They were administered as "commune", local authorties.
    The powerful Signore families that carried old feudal titles were not permitted to interfere in city politics, but that didn't stop them trying to re-establish their feudal domions and even expand them.

    I have been experimenting with various files in Mtw2 and conclude it is fully possible to recreate this scenario in a total war mod.

    Recent threads and ideas that lend themselves to this project:

    Swaby Wangy's diplomacy; Shows that the diplomacy model is moddable to a level needed to recreate medieval Italian politics.

    Rawghi's heraldry mod; A good example of modded ancilleries, regionand faction specific triggers and genuine medieval heraldry art that will all be necessary for a polished medieval Italy mod.



    Unit banner I will convert for the game

    Horse archer's names project; A study in implementing authentic names to Mtw2. His thread shows peoples interest in using the correct names for times, cultures and places and shows how to do it. A must for a regional campaign like this one.

    Remove the pope thread: Shows we can get rid of him as a faction if we like and mods a lot of things to do with him. A must because I don't want the pope calling crusades agaist Napoli or anywhere else

    A few of my own ideas:

    Realistic and historical campaign win conditions for each faction.
    Survival and maintaining Your cities independence for smaller factions in the lombard north like; Bergamo, Brescia, Cremona, Verona, Vicenza and Mantova as opposed to The Kingdom the The two Sicilies, powerful duchies like the D'este of Ferrara, D'medici in Toscana, Savoia in Aoste and Piemonte and The Borghese, Orsini and Ottoboni in Roma who will have more expansionist designs.
    This will be possible with faction, cuture, religion, faction relationship, traits, ansc and vnv modding and a whole lot of experimentation.

    Region landmarks; It will include Italy's famous buildings and places. Some of them like the Colosseum will be there in the desc_strat for Roma only and give bonuses only to that faction. I can't think of upgrade plug ins for it, Maybe an
    "tourist trade' upgrade.
    Others in Roma would be St Peter's basillica and would increase revenue through the Pope selling indulgences (A licience to sin")
    Famous monastries like Monte Casino Are all over Italy and a player could build them at the correct turn number uniquely specific to a province and including pictures of the actual buildings in the campaign.
    Building something like the famous "Duomo" in Firenze (cathedral in florence) could raise a factions standing but on the downside make the plce more desirable to a rival.


    Condottieri: These were mercenary generals who fought for the Highest bidder. They recieve a "condotta" or an allowance of troops, cavalry and wages from their liege, which was increased for success and long faithful service. Most of Italy's great battles of the period included forces that were comprised of several Condottieri's troops in alliance under a Lord.
    The nomad faction/hording function and scripting event monitors for battles and alliances can be used to give the player the option of undertaking and emulating the careers of great Condottieri like Braccio or Bartolommeo Colleoni.



    Colleoni entra a Martinengo

    Italy has many famous castles linked with the character and regions I will include in this mod.
    Once I know how many regions will be used for towns and cities, I will use the remaining slots to make small sub provinces within a city's home province, but bordering the next province. This way a faction like Verona for example may only have one city but could have several castle provinces protecting it's borders.
    The castles could be upgradable but not convertable.



    Castello Montemassi, Roccastrada Grosetto Province

    Protectorates. Many cities were vassals to another. I'm look at map editing to better simulate this. On the map tga's each province has it's own colour. By drawing the colour of the papal states province not only in Lazio but also drawing with the same colour around the edges of it's protectorate states in the papal dominion, it would mean an enemy would have to cross Roma's border to annex it's neighbour. e.g If Toscana wanted to take Ancona (a non playable faction maybe) in the marches, the border between them would be a few pixels of Lazio territory.
    This would offer better protection to vassals from savage AI.
    The only thing then would be to protect Ancona form Savage Roma with scripting.
    Hope that make sense. I am testing the idea with vanilla. Landblocks and map features would stop the AI skipping Ancona to get to Roma along Roma's extended border surrounding Ancona.


    Foreign Mercs: Most cities bought in foreign merc to bolster their military.
    As the mod would initally use vanilla units with balanced stats, foriegn mercs will add more dimension to unit stacks and simulate history.
    Eg: Venice brought in mercs from the east, southern states had spanish and muslim troops and the french were often in Rome and Parma.

    That is a brief on my inital idea. I hope I get some constuctive replies to this thread
    Last edited by Conte Martinengo; December 20, 2006 at 09:08 AM.
    • Leonardo II Martinengo ‎(* 1440 ca + 1484)‎, condottiero. Sposa Battista, figlia di Gentile da Leonessa, celebre condottiero, che gli portò in eredità una porzione della Signoria di Sanguinetto.
    • Capitano generale della Serenissima.
    • La famiglia Martinengo Delle Palle creato Conte con i discendenti dalla Serenissima nel 1522.

  2. #2
    Methoz's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: L'Italia medioevale. mod concept and map

    looks great....
    i think, now best "italian" map....
    TotalWarForum.cz
    Česko-Slovenské fórum o hrách ze série Total War

  3. #3

    Default Re: L'Italia medioevale. mod concept and map

    Looks very interesting, good luck with it.

  4. #4
    Legionario's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: L'Italia medioevale. mod concept and map

    Progetto interessante,buona fortuna, ma....se non sarà possibile "trafficare" con i modelli 3 D e la loro testurizzazione,ho paura che rimarrai "insabbiato"
    questo progetto,per la sua buona riuscita,oltre allo scripting e alla modifica dei files di testo,ha bisogno di un intervento pesante sul 3D e la ritesturizzazione delle unità,per rappresentare al meglio la miriade di stati e staterelli presenti nella penisola al tempo.
    se hai bisogno bussa pure,non ho molto tempo ma...
    saluti

    English:
    Interesting project,I wish you the best and good luck, but...until (and "if"...)
    there will be any available script for 3D max and/or a tool for the textures,it will be very hard to reach the target...
    this project,apart from the tweaking of text files and scripting for the campaign,needs the customization of 95% of the existing units,to render the differences and peculiarities of the many parties involved in the struggle for the Peninsula....

    regards
    E fra chi lo ascoltò,alcuni erano buoni
    molti erano malvagi,
    e molti non erano niente,
    come tutti gli uomini...in qualsiasi luogo....

  5. #5

    Default Re: L'Italia medioevale. mod concept and map

    @ Methoz: Thanks, hopefully it'll be the best italian map, but only when I get it working.

    @dawjack: Thanks, I have had feedback from couple of interested modders that may contribute.
    Anybody can help, many hands make light work.

    @Legionario: You are right, it is a really ambitous project.
    The unit textures intially wont be touched until I get the all the other features of the campaign working and I find the time to learn to mod unit models. Hopefully after I have playable and enjoyable campaign working I won't have to because an experienced Unit modder will want to get involved.
    I think I can make the factions and their gameplay unique enough to be a progressive and highly playable mod even before I get custom units.
    Last edited by Conte Martinengo; December 19, 2006 at 04:22 AM.
    • Leonardo II Martinengo ‎(* 1440 ca + 1484)‎, condottiero. Sposa Battista, figlia di Gentile da Leonessa, celebre condottiero, che gli portò in eredità una porzione della Signoria di Sanguinetto.
    • Capitano generale della Serenissima.
    • La famiglia Martinengo Delle Palle creato Conte con i discendenti dalla Serenissima nel 1522.

  6. #6
    Legionario's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: L'Italia medioevale. mod concept and map

    Great then....let's wait for it
    E fra chi lo ascoltò,alcuni erano buoni
    molti erano malvagi,
    e molti non erano niente,
    come tutti gli uomini...in qualsiasi luogo....

  7. #7

    Default Re: L'Italia medioevale. mod concept and map

    I have recieved enough positive feedback in the first few hours to show that it is worth the effort needed to finish the map files, create a test campaign and get some in game campaign screenshots uploaded.
    This will take some time, I will have to take my computer on holiday with me.
    I would like to have it done in a week or two.
    Keep comments and help coming.
    I will reply to posts.
    • Leonardo II Martinengo ‎(* 1440 ca + 1484)‎, condottiero. Sposa Battista, figlia di Gentile da Leonessa, celebre condottiero, che gli portò in eredità una porzione della Signoria di Sanguinetto.
    • Capitano generale della Serenissima.
    • La famiglia Martinengo Delle Palle creato Conte con i discendenti dalla Serenissima nel 1522.

  8. #8
    Fresco's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: L'Italia medioevale. mod concept and map

    Riguardo la mappa:Spoleto(non Spoletto); x l'Abruzzo in quei tempi la "mia" Pescara purtroppo neanche esisteva,quindi inserirei L'Aquila!

    However very compliments for your very interesting project!
    CAMPIONI del MONDO!!!!!

  9. #9

    Default Re: L'Italia medioevale. mod concept and map

    @Fresco
    Wrong... Pescara was existing.
    Was named "Piscaria", on river south shore; the town's first documented re-appearing in post roman Italy, after the Ostia Aternii longobard siege and distuction several centuries before, was exactly in that period, under the Spoleto rule..
    L'Aquila was a middle age founded town, reuniting several little villages, if i not remeber bad in 14th century... but is true that Piscaria-Pescara increased it's role and dimensions only in XX century, so maybe L'Aquila is anyway more correct.

  10. #10

    Default Re: L'Italia medioevale. mod concept and map

    @Fresco: Thanks for the corrections.
    I looked at L'Aquila in place of Pescara. There is room for both and still room and region slots left over to include mini regions containing famous castles.
    This was only an example map.
    You must be a developer on this mod to request your family name cognome and their home town in the campaign. Only joking.

    @Virdis: There is a Pesaro to the north of Ancona and pescara to the south.
    My sources have various spellings for many places some are modern, some antique italian.
    Still it is already much better than the vanilla names. Eg: Milano - Milan, Venezia - Venice, Genova - Genoa, Napoli -Naples, Firenze (antique = Fiorenza)- Florence.
    Please feel free to futher examine the map, suggest region or factions and forward the results of your research to me.

    What you see so far is 18hrs non stop work from when I started this idea yesterday until now,
    Off to bed.
    Last edited by Conte Martinengo; December 18, 2006 at 04:45 PM.
    • Leonardo II Martinengo ‎(* 1440 ca + 1484)‎, condottiero. Sposa Battista, figlia di Gentile da Leonessa, celebre condottiero, che gli portò in eredità una porzione della Signoria di Sanguinetto.
    • Capitano generale della Serenissima.
    • La famiglia Martinengo Delle Palle creato Conte con i discendenti dalla Serenissima nel 1522.

  11. #11

    Default Re: L'Italia medioevale. mod concept and map

    Progress:
    map_regions.tga has all major provinces finished and ready for the mini "Castello", villiage and port regions to be added to each province. ( Will use all 200 region slots )

    All the provincal capital settlement names are listed with the regions indexed to their RGB values and ready for text editing.

    map_heights.tga is going well, and is very detailed and accurate. Trade routes and features started. ( I want detailed topograhpy and aspects like accurate rivers, trade routes and resources to be a feature of the mod (within Mtw2 game engine limits) as it should really help simulate the stategic geographical position of each town and city, plus look awesome!!)

    Huge collection of art for loading sceens and scrolls etc had been collected.

    We have a very capable coder and a history and languages student both from Italy offering to help out .

    21 factions are not decided on yet, but will include:
    * Milan under the Visconti
    * La Serenissima (Venetian Republic)
    * Conti di Savoia (the Savoy dynasty from Aosta and Torino that eventually became Kings in Italy)
    * D'Este of Ferrara
    * Granduchi di Toscana (Florence)
    * Sovrani Delle Due Sicilie (we are all familiar with)
    * Califate di Tunisi
    * Lombard Cities (Brescia, Bergamo, Verona fighting to stay independant of their powerful neighbours)
    * Genova
    * Gonzaga family, dukes of Mantova
    * Maygars as an emergant faction raiding the north east
    * French (1500ad)
    * not sure how I plan to implement the Papal States (Holy See) yet.
    * Hopefully "Condottieri" if Mtw2 will allow playing as a faction without a home like bi did, (if no hording function )
    * that leaves a few slots open for suggestion

    This mod will happen, 40 more people working on it would be nice though.

    Any info about Italy, modding or sources of useful info will assist us moving the project forward.
    Also anybody who would like to write text files for the campaign can ask for the beta map_regions.tga and settlement list with RGB region co-ords and use in with the preview to get started.
    Last edited by Conte Martinengo; December 20, 2006 at 11:03 AM.
    • Leonardo II Martinengo ‎(* 1440 ca + 1484)‎, condottiero. Sposa Battista, figlia di Gentile da Leonessa, celebre condottiero, che gli portò in eredità una porzione della Signoria di Sanguinetto.
    • Capitano generale della Serenissima.
    • La famiglia Martinengo Delle Palle creato Conte con i discendenti dalla Serenissima nel 1522.

  12. #12
    Laetus
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    Default Re: L'Italia medioevale. mod concept and map

    I have a suggestion for another faction: I don't remember their name exactly, it might be Conti di Lusignano, but I have to check that.
    Anyway they are the counts Monferrato (Piemonte), and they got to be very powerful during the XIII century, just to gradually lose importance after that, due to facts which happened during the crusades.

    Another idea could be the Canossa faction.

    Oh, and if you need me for any work other than having ideas, I'd be glad to be of help. Just tell me what to do, and bear in mind that I know nothing of how to make a mod.

  13. #13
    Laetus
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    Default Re: L'Italia medioevale. mod concept and map

    Sorry, I don't know how I could confuse the Lusignano familiy with the Monferrato!

    I was very much in a hurry...

    I'm going to take a look to the major powers of southern Italy in that period... when is the exact moment in which the modo starts?

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