Dagor Silmarillion [UPDATED]~ First Age Campaigns '...slain ye may be, and slain ye shall be: by weapon (bonuses) and by (coded) torment and by (scripted) grief...'

[Jmonstra]

This is the sexiest thing I've seen today.

[Kellenpure]

Main character Silmarillion character portraits example:

Attachment 343918

[Kellenpure]

Ignore the last post because I still seem to suck at attachments. But the next couple posts are sample character portraits that I've collected. Look like this: Thingol

I will try to attach the tgas I made, but I haven't figured out invisible backgrounds so someone else may have to do the finish work on them if desired for use.

[Kellenpure]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

House of Finarfin:

Finarfin Finrod Angrod Aegnor Glorfindel

Leaders of Men:

Beren Huor Tuor Hurin Turin

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Sons of Feanor:

Maedhros Maglor Celegorm Caranthir Curufin Amrod Amras


House of Fingolfin:

Fingolfin Fingon Turgon

[Ruggero Signoroni]

Those portraits look very good!

[Kellenpure]

Zip file with Silmarillion character portraits in tga and jpg format. Someone else will have to figure out the portrait background formatting because I was not successful.

Dagor Silmarillion character portraits.zip

[alreadyded]

I shall take care of it. Takes no time at all. I like them by the way, thanks.

[Kellenpure]

Cool - I have quite a few other generals already in the works.

[JVR]

now thats what i am waiting for! keeps us posted on the next patch??

[Kellenpure]

A few more character portraits - the Falathrim

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Cirdan Beleg Mablung

[alreadyded]

Nice choices.


No clue when I will release the updates for this, I have a good idea of what needs to be done though and figuring that out is the most time consuming part.

[MageNuada]

Em, First Age and Cirdan with beard and mustache? It's wrong.

[Kellenpure]

Em, First Age and Cirdan with beard and mustache? It's wrong.

I have not seen text that states that Cirdan was NOT bearded in the first age; the main reference is that he had a very long beard by the time of the Lord of the Rings. If you read up on Cirdan, he is one of the oldest of all living elves, possibly going back to when the elves originally left Cuivienen. But he also is very unique in the highly important role he plays in the fate of Middle Earth. He is referred to as extremely wise, with unusual foresight, and perhaps a chosen one of the Valar. Because of these traits I think setting him apart with the beard already in the First Age is appropriate - and I liked how the artist rendered it!

[Ngugi]

Wrong? Naaw - it's at least plausible.

When this game occur he's not younger than around 4 thousand years old. Elves could get beard when the reached the so called 'third cycle'; and do we know Mathan (Feanor's father in law) got it already in the 'second cycle'.
However, what defines a cycle is unknown [as it was only brought up once it likely was a rejected idea, or a temporary afterthought, but we can roll with it]. Age is no sole factor, AFAIK, as, to quote TolkienGateway in lack of original source at hand, "...Elves, who were not ancient, could enter the third stage sooner due to tragic life events."
As we have no reference to when Cirdan got his beard, I have no issues seeing Círdan having it at this time as proposal, as long as he do not appear as ancient as in LotR. Possibly the black in the hair should be questioned, as he had silver-hair, as his kinsman Thingol, but makes him appear a younger version of himself while the silver is present enough.

All in all, Cirdan was already old. He had mornfully rejected to go to Aman that was his hearts desire, knowing he would not get to go for ages to come. He was among the mightiest in foresight in Middle-earth which ought to been a weight upon him, and he had taken responsibility for the Falathrim who had suffered defeat and great peril from Morgoth even before Noldor arrived. If a man of serious mind, empathy and duty, as he seems, these weights could moved him to the phase in life referred to as a 'third cycle' fair enough.

[Kellenpure]

Wrong? Naaw - it's at least plausible.

When this game occur he's not younger than around 4 thousand years old. Elves could get beard when the reached the so called 'third cycle'; and do we know Mathan (Feanor's father in law) got it already in the 'second cycle'.
However, what defines a cycle is unknown [as it was only brought up once it likely was a rejected idea, or a temporary afterthought, but we can roll with it]. Age is no sole factor, AFAIK, as, to quote TolkienGateway in lack of original source at hand, "...Elves, who were not ancient, could enter the third stage sooner due to tragic life events."
As we have no reference to when Cirdan got his beard, I have no issues seeing Círdan having it at this time as proposal, as long as he do not appear as ancient as in LotR. Possibly the black in the hair should be questioned, as he had silver-hair, as his kinsman Thingol, but makes him appear a younger version of himself while the silver is present enough.

All in all, Cirdan was already old. He had mornfully rejected to go to Aman that was his hearts desire, knowing he would not get to go for ages to come. He was among the mightiest in foresight in Middle-earth which ought to been a weight upon him, and he had taken responsibility for the Falathrim who had suffered defeat and great peril from Morgoth even before Noldor arrived. If a man of serious mind, empathy and duty, as he seems, these weights could moved him to the phase in life referred to as a 'third cycle' fair enough.

In terms of game play I also figured it's nice to have him readily identifiable with the beard - otherwise he's just another pretty boy elf face.

[MageNuada]

I have not seen text that states that Cirdan was NOT bearded in the first age; the main reference is that he had a very long beard by the time of the Lord of the Rings. If you read up on Cirdan, he is one of the oldest of all living elves, possibly going back to when the elves originally left Cuivienen. But he also is very unique in the highly important role he plays in the fate of Middle Earth. He is referred to as extremely wise, with unusual foresight, and perhaps a chosen one of the Valar. Because of these traits I think setting him apart with the beard already in the First Age is appropriate - and I liked how the artist rendered it!

1. I have completely read Silmarillion.
2. "I have not seen text that states that Cirdan was NOT bearded in the first age;" - L.O.L. We talking about something like "Aragorn's pants". Tolkien is nowhere said about the fact that Aragorn wore pants, however, the reverse is also not said. So we can made conclusion that Aragorn didn't have pants. Also we can't say have Cirdan beard or not, but we can make conclusion as Cirdan elf and other elves did NOT have beards so Cirdan in first age did not have beard.

Wrong? Naaw - it's at least plausible.

When this game occur he's not younger than around 4 thousand years old. Elves could get beard when the reached the so called 'third cycle'; and do we know Mathan (Feanor's father in law) got it already in the 'second cycle'.
However, what defines a cycle is unknown [as it was only brought up once it likely was a rejected idea, or a temporary afterthought, but we can roll with it]. Age is no sole factor, AFAIK, as, to quote TolkienGateway in lack of original source at hand, "...Elves, who were not ancient, could enter the third stage sooner due to tragic life events."
As we have no reference to when Cirdan got his beard, I have no issues seeing Círdan having it at this time as proposal, as long as he do not appear as ancient as in LotR. Possibly the black in the hair should be questioned, as he had silver-hair, as his kinsman Thingol, but makes him appear a younger version of himself while the silver is present enough.

All in all, Cirdan was already old. He had mornfully rejected to go to Aman that was his hearts desire, knowing he would not get to go for ages to come. He was among the mightiest in foresight in Middle-earth which ought to been a weight upon him, and he had taken responsibility for the Falathrim who had suffered defeat and great peril from Morgoth even before Noldor arrived. If a man of serious mind, empathy and duty, as he seems, these weights could moved him to the phase in life referred to as a 'third cycle' fair enough.

Ur point is view is nice but, man, there are others who have enough reasons to rwash third phase, for example Maedhros. I think Cirdan's beard in third age - Tolkien wants just to accentuate that Cirdan has been oldest elf in Middle Earth.

[Veteraan]

Please take any further discussion on Cirdan's beard, or the lack of hair on his face to the Tolkien General Discussion II Thread.

[Infidel144]

Age is no sole factor, AFAIK, as, to quote TolkienGateway in lack of original source at hand, "...Elves, who were not ancient, could enter the third stage sooner due to tragic life events."

Does TolkienGateway cite a source? If not it sounds more like something that was made up, or at least I do not recall Tolkien making such a statement. Anything said about 'cycles of life' other that Elves may grow beards in the third is guess work or simply made up.

1. I have completely read Silmarillion.
2. "I have not seen text that states that Cirdan was NOT bearded in the first age;" - L.O.L. We talking about something like "Aragorn's pants". Tolkien is nowhere said about the fact that Aragorn wore pants, however, the reverse is also not said. So we can made conclusion that Aragorn didn't have pants. Also we can't say have Cirdan beard or not, but we can make conclusion as Cirdan elf and other elves did NOT have beards so Cirdan in first age did not have beard.

Other Elves did have beards. As Ngugi noted, Mahtan was bearded. In a picture Tolkien drew with Beleg, it looks as though Beleg has a (neatly trimmed) beard. It is possible that Tinfang (from very early writings) was bearded as well (his name means Starbeard).

edit:
Veteraan, I was posting while you were replying.

[Ngugi]

@ MageNuada
I was not the one who made the absolute statement though.
If you said "I do not belive Cirdan had a beard" and stated your reasoning ("He's to young" or "Not enough troubled experiences yet" or what not), that would not been an issue. Perhaps alreadyed would agreed, that would been fine. But when you proclaim it is "wrong" when there's in fact no clear answer, but merely preferences, then you must accept that will be counter-argued, hehe.
And how should we ever know how individuals differed in reaction to experiences, even if they might be the same? Maedhros was still young compaired to Cirdan and spent most of his years in the Blessed Land, where few worries occured until the very end, and where Time do not deterioate the body as it does in Middle-earth - nothing of this do however deny Maedhros might reached his third cycle ere his end [if the cycles are supposed to be taken as canon, and beards are not only an individual matter; another preference]. But since reaching your third cycle do not equal you get a beard, beard in teh third cycle was still individual, it's not relevant for the conclusion whether Maedhros or someone else did or not.



@Veteraan
This debate is about a direct and specific content to be implemented or not into the game, for which the mod creator has not made a verdict yet, not for lore itself, so it should hardly be considered off-topic.
However, alreadyded now knows least my stance on the topic, so I'm fine with the discussion as of this post.

[Veteraan]

@Veteraan
This debate is about a direct and specific content to be implemented or not into the game, for which the mod creator has not made a verdict yet, not for lore itself, so it should hardly be considered off-topic.
However, alreadyded now knows least my stance on the topic, so I'm fine with the discussion as of this post.

On the contrary I would say. The Mod creator stated that he liked the picture(s) and has since posted nothing to suggest otherwise.

Nice choices.


No clue when I will release the updates for this, I have a good idea of what needs to be done though and figuring that out is the most time consuming part.