Grand Campaign 2 - RetrofitMP HS ENDED

[saleska2]

exactly, consider it the same as in HatN, however, it is likely there will be some extreme cases which might be up to admins decision.

yeah the exploit makes it able for people to take settlements without having a spy or siege weapons but its all part of the game in this HS. Putting units out in the open is a bigger risk now and you will have to put in more time to play your turn perfectly

[General Dragon.]

As you messaged me Saleska I will take the co-admin position.
As to say something to the debate, while giving the earlier turns to the powerful factions sounds "unbalanced", that doesn't mean other smaller factions are instantly death. I think you are overestimating those factions a little bit.
Before you say, why HRE and venice is so strong in Hatn because those are hardened veteran players, who also does good diplomacy and working towards their own goal. Every faction can be powerful as HRE. You only need to play your cards perfectly. I could bring up several occasions where other smaller nations got really powerful.

[saleska2]

Oh yeah, most definently I agree. The smaller nations can become extremely strong. But overall purely looking at the factions themselves factions such as HRE/France/Venice/Byzantium start off better than factions such as Hungary, Poland, Russia, Denmark(debatable I guess). The bigger factions have more room to expand to, more income to start with and start with more troops more spread out. To also give these same factions another boost by putting them first in turn order limits the smaller factions by quite alot. Every faction has the power to become a monster but putting every faction as close to each other as possible in terms of power at the start instead of putting them further away from each other should be a must.

[misafeco]

HRE is a very difficult faction, you have countless potential enemies, so you're at war from turn 1. It's very rare when someone wins the game with them. In western Europe France has probably the biggest chance of winning. England is in a really good situation too. Hungary is the weakest, surrounded by bigger factions. If I have to make a "fair" turn order it'd be something like this: Hungary-Denmark-Russia-Scotland-Portugal-Poland-Spain-Milan-Sicily-Moors-Venice-HRE-England-Egypt-France-Byzantines-Turks.

[saleska2]

We cant make a turn order based on a players opinion because then everyone wants to share their opinion. HRE is pretty damn good imo, you just need to do enough diplomacy and without Poland you get quite a bit more expansion. I dont believe there is a perfectly accurate turn order so using one that is based on facts (like amount of regions or overall strength) is the only other option. I agree on everything you said tho

[misafeco]

Yeah, if there are AI factions it's way more complicated to guess a faction's strength. No Milan+No Poland can result a very powerful HRE.

[Captainnorway]

ok lets settle this, strawpoll created http://www.strawpoll.me/11167545
VOTE ONCE!
if you chose option 1-5 post your option here and name it between 1-5

if none of you are interested in the strawpoll I will go for the original/the one with the most votes.
will upload turn tomorrow night (24 hours from now)

[saleska2]

sigh. I still wont be allowing original turn order if there arent any good reasons or an overwhelming majority (instead of the 4/5 people who had the most benefit from it at least 8+) but w/e.

option 1 is probably turn order based on territorial ranking, factions with lesser starting position start earlier.

option 2 would be overall ranking

There are other options such as militairy ranking or amount of surrounding factions but I dont think anyone wants these as they havent been proposed by anyone.

[saleska2]

I assume nobody minds it that if we happen to go original turn order that all factions will be revoked and we randomize all factions right?

[Fernandez_1492]

Let me know if a spot becomes available.

[ArBo]

I don't care much about the turn order, but I'm definitely against randomizing the factions.
I'd be in favour of the territorial ranking, I know it's not a flawless system but it definitely solves the biggest balance issues imo.

[saleska2]

factions will be randomized if we play original turn order, because currently the votes are biased because people are just voting whats best for their own faction.

[zender9]

factions will be randomized if we play original turn order, because currently the votes are biased because people are just voting whats best for their own faction.

I agree.Nice point.

[Ramble12]

Come on already. Start the hotseat with turn order based on overall rating. Put me in between HRE and Byzantium though, please, I don't want to be fourth person to approach HRE before he could even open his first save lol

[saleska2]

Come on already. Start the hotseat with turn order based on overall rating. Put me in between HRE and Byzantium though, please, I don't want to be fourth person to approach HRE before he could even open his first save lol

Its not like diplomacy can only go negative tho lol. HRE may aswell make alliances with 3/4 people who approach him. Imo we should also just start the HS tho.

[Ramble12]

Its not like diplomacy can only go negative tho lol. HRE may aswell make alliances with 3/4 people who approach him. Imo we should also just start the HS tho.

The fact that he can ally 3/4 is irrelevant here. He borders 4 players. Only this matters, just as you don't take into account skill and diplomatic abilities of players that take over weaker factions. Just put me after HRE, this is not that difficult and that was the only reason I wanted original turn order

[saleska2]

So what do I do if someone else also asks me to put him somewhere else in turn order? I dont mind doing it and if there are no complaints then sure but it would be awkward if someone else asks me the exact same question if you get what I mean :3 Tho I suppose this does put you later in turn order. But as of now we are still heading towards an all randomized HS if we are gonna follow that strawpoll.

[Hannibal2001]

Ok since the factions have been reseted i will take England

[saleska2]

nonono, factions arent resetted. I have revoked all factions to not make any player bias their choice in the strawpoll, if we go for original turn order factions will be randomized, if not, we go back to old faction-players list.

[Oathsworn]

I said my idea but you make me regret to say. I dont mind anymore please just start the HS