[RP HS] Holy Roman Empire (TWC/MTWII Gaming group) BURGUNDY/BAVARIA OPEN!

[Jadli]

buuut, what if we allow milan to claim the italian kingship and become emperor instead? thatll set them against the hre, but we could allow it if they have support there, or too much internal conflict creates a vacany for too long?

Ok, Crown of Italy is added. Also, HRE has obviously none or very minimal influence over Venice, so I made them independent kingdom.

Just one question, what happens if an independent kingdom becomes ruler of a HRE vassal faction through blood alliance, for example there is a starting blood alliance between Bohemia and Poland. Thus in real life the King of Poland becomes the Duke of Bohemia, does he as an independent king have to obey all the rules for HRE vassal factions?

Ye, I added this today. You all please read the rules again, some new stuff, especially about kingdoms. Only blood alliance listed here is Bohemia - Poland so far, as I was checking out my family tree. Daughter of my FL Judita is married to king of Poland, so its obvious blood alliance. I recommend you all to search your/neighbor family trees. If you find something, lemme know, Ill add your blood alliance to the list.

Back to your question. Im not sure if i get the first sentence. Blood alliance is alliance, not vassalage. King of Poland can become duke of Bohemia (and margrave of Moravia) only if Duchy of Bohemia is destroyed ( pls dont) or betrayed by Poland. Bohemia and Moravia is de iure part of HRE, so Im pretty sure the ruler of HRE wouldnt give it up. You would have to start a war to take it. You are an independent king, thus you dont have to follow laws of HRE.

When is this going to start?

Right now ( unofficially)

elghazi should return from a trip in a day or two. But thats only for good, as we all (especially HRE factions) need to prepare plans and discuss what to do, considering in turn 1 there might be already huge battles.

I made some changes in scenario. All factions now have kings purse 5k, I moved some armies, upgrades some cities and added a lot of armies. Use this test save for planing
http://www.mediafire.com/download/s3...d0ac/testc.sav

Once elghazi is back, he will upload real save. Make sure to rep him. Im also working hard on finding co-admins.

Turn order is in OP

Ill rather remind everything important. In HRE there is currently civil war between The Roman king and counter king. The Counter king has support of pope, thus The Roman king is excommunicated. All factions that support him or that are are allied to him are automatically excommunicated. These factions are Bohemia, both Lorraine duchies, Swabia, and his independent allies - Poland and Venice. The Counter king has support of Milan, Burgundy, Bayern, Austria and independent allies - Sicily and Hungary ( + Pope). Thus the only neutral factions in this conflict are England and France.

As long as they are excommunicated, they can be destroyed by other factions. Excommunication may end with death of pope/The Roman king or an agreement. It may also end, if the excommunicated factions appoint an antipope. However, end of excommunication will not end the civil war, it would just not allow counter king and his supporters destroy excommunicated factions. The civil war would go on with normal civil war rules ( see OP).

Also important thing, as long as there is civil war, HRE factions cant claim anything. All independent factions can claim even if they participate in HRE war.
And first betrayals/becoming neutral can happen on turn 5 or later, not before. Character we have now are real historical characters, they had reasons why did they support this guy or the other, you should think on it before you betray someone for nothing.

I have to say I never seen so elaborate mode considering historical family trees and characters. ( perhaps only westeros fanatics could compete)

Ill also make clear your duties in this HS.
Time limits must be followed by you all ( if we want to have at least 2-3 turns per month)
From now till the end of the first turn you all must make introductory RP. In the RP you should introduce your family ( at least FL/FH), perhaps a short history of your faction, whom do you support in the war, etc.
Things that are mandatory to RP are: elections, crusade, betrayals, forming blood alliances, winning civil war, destroying a faction, excommunications, declaring a conquest, adoption of a regent, obtaining a crown, etc
Things that must be at least announced: family events ( death/birth of your important family members, weddings), declaring a war, death/appointing a (arch)bishop ( PICS mandatory) - in all actions that require presence of (arch)bishops you must state his name, battles,...

RP is supposed to be realistic. Yo should read some stuff, recommend to start from here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_..._Roman_Emperor

All stuff that require admin to remove your money must be posted in thread, and also sent to admin in PM ( use this form of title "HRE - Turn x - ....")

Basically, you have to inform other players in threads about almost everything

Post RP separately from your turns to not delay the HS if possible


When fighting an AI faction, you can take only settlements you have a claim for even if they are sending armies against you. No manual battles are allowed, as it would advantage independent kigngdoms a lot

Also, breaking basic rules would be very unfortunate, I hope you all read it so we can avoid useless delays. Important rules - No watchtowers allowed, 3 forts/player/region, no one turn peace ( but you cant attack those who havent played their first turn yet, so England cant attack France, but France can attack England as it already played its turn), siege eq rules, agent rules, no destruction of buildings allowed and no exploiting AI factions

EDIT:

Ill be something like "RP admin" - Ill be making minor changes in RP rules and answering questions about it, updating OP. But adding/removal/change of big rules will ofc need to be approved by admins and agreed by you.

[saleska2]

Can you upload one in which we can use console to toggle_fow?

[Jadli]

uploaded. However, some important armies cant be seen as they are hiding

[saleska2]

Also, for those having problems with the save file here is my folder: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By...DJNUERPWTREZjQ

NOTE: It doesnt have the most recent test file in it

[HannibalExMachina]

perhaps only westeros fanatics could compete



ive never gone full RP, perhaps you can make an introductary post once we start, as an example?
could you change the loyalist font color in the OP, i can only read that stuff if i select the words, dat yellow

As long as they are excommunicated, they can be destroyed by other factions.

so, we cant destroy papal factions while we are in the dog house, only they us?

to avoid confusion, sicily isnt a kingdom yet, only a duchy. your FL needs to be both duke of apulia and count of sicily to become king.

sry, shouldve taken an earlier bus to this party.

[zender9]

If im not wrong i(venice) dont start with (arch)bishop and as i'm supporter of current Roman King who is excommunicated i will be excommunicated too.I lack knowledge about this mod and history of HRE i have no idea who the hell are bishops I read the rules and there is only one way for me to get a(n) (arch)bishop and its that;

- Independent rulers believe, they have the right to appoint (arch)bishops in their lands instead of pope. Appointment of (arch)bishops can become subject of dispute between the pope and a ruler, with possible future consequences.

But i don't know how this process works, how can i make one of my generals a bishop, another rule says i need approval and if i don't have i have to pay 5k to admin, as pope doesn't like me he won't approve such a wish so again if im not wrong i have to pay 5k and 1 turn to get my bishop.I believe i need some explanations about how things will work.Will claims be made at last of the turn, so we can't play an aggresive move againts the city we are about the claim at our turn? Will byzantium counts as a christian kingdom not an empire(lack of knowledge strikes again ) ? Also it looks like Byzantium doesn't have much soldiers and if it will be claimed for 15k it will create a big advantage to hungary or sicily or both.I also don't get ; when you claim a settlement of a human player does he has to claim one of yours to be able to siege your castle(claimed) or it will be an open war which both sides will be able to take settlements from each other.Another question, i claimed a settlement and paid 5k, can my ally attack that settlement too or does he has to claim it with me?Do we have chance to cancel a claim to answer a claim which has made to our.(to clear what i mean i will give examples, as an independent faction i have 2 max limit to make claims and i'm using them but if another player claims one of my settlements can i cancel one of my other claims to claim one of the settlement from the player who attacked me?)

Thats it for now, i'm sure i will ask some more in future

[Jadli]

perhaps only westeros fanatics could compete



ive never gone full RP, perhaps you can make an introductary post once we start, as an example?
could you change the loyalist font color in the OP, i can only read that stuff if i select the words, dat yellow

As long as they are excommunicated, they can be destroyed by other factions.

so, we cant destroy papal factions while we are in the dog house, only they us?

to avoid confusion, sicily isnt a kingdom yet, only a duchy. your FL needs to be both duke of apulia and count of sicily to become king.

sry, shouldve taken an earlier bus to this party.

Im certainly not the best roleplayer, bur Ill try to post something later today/tomorrow. You guys can start posting now, no need to wait for save

Yes, we cant destroy them, only defeat them. They can kill us all. Also, it seems we have no cardinal, so unless we find a new friend who has him we cant appoint antipope.

Ye, thnx for the fix, name of the faction changed

If im not wrong i(venice) dont start with (arch)bishop and as i'm supporter of current Roman King who is excommunicated i will be excommunicated too.I lack knowledge about this mod and history of HRE i have no idea who the hell are bishops I read the rules and there is only one way for me to get a(n) (arch)bishop and its that;

- Independent rulers believe, they have the right to appoint (arch)bishops in their lands instead of pope. Appointment of (arch)bishops can become subject of dispute between the pope and a ruler, with possible future consequences.

But i don't know how this process works, how can i make one of my generals a bishop, another rule says i need approval and if i don't have i have to pay 5k to admin, as pope doesn't like me he won't approve such a wish so again if im not wrong i have to pay 5k and 1 turn to get my bishop.I believe i need some explanations about how things will work.

Well, technically you are already excommunicated. You start with patriarch, its not entirely clear whether patriarch is more or less archbishop, but lets make them equal. Thus you already have one. Verona can give you a bishop and Zara an archbishop. Ill change descr_strat, so you already start with both of them, as for some time you will probably not be allowed to appoint new (arch)bishop because of excommunication.

How does it work? Very simply. When you have a settlement where is vacant (arch)bishop ancillary, you can give it to the new character. Recruit priest or a general in the city, and he gets the ancillary. However, there is that endless dispute between the church and kings about whom of them shall decide who shall be appointed. You can appoint a (arch)bishop by an accident, thus it would be hard for admins/pope/ruler to keep an eye on that. Thus I made the rule they are real (arch)bishops only after his holiness confirms that, before that they are something like candidates, who cant be used for coronations and that stuff. Independent ruler can confirm the appointment instead of pope if he doesnt allow that.

I actually made a little mistake in the rule. It says

-

(Arch)bishops appointment has to be officially confirmed by pope/antipope or an independent ruler if the appointment is to happen within his realm. If you dont have approval, you have to pay 5k to admin to make bishop confirmed, 10k for archbishop.

It should be

(Arch)bishops appointment has to be officially confirmed by pope/antipope. If you dont have approval, you have to pay 2,5k to admin to make bishop confirmed, 5k for archbishop/patriarch.

I changed the prices right now, before that they were too high

Will claims be made at last of the turn, so we can't play an aggresive move againts the city we are about the claim at our turn?

You can besiege a settlement in the same turn you claim it

Will byzantium counts as a christian kingdom not an empire(lack of knowledge strikes again ) ? Also it looks like Byzantium doesn't have much soldiers and if it will be claimed for 15k it will create a big advantage to hungary or sicily or both.

Yea, this claim can be used only against christian realms following pope, so not against Byzantium. Thus I believe I answered also the second question.

I also don't get ; when you claim a settlement of a human player does he has to claim one of yours to be able to siege your castle(claimed) or it will be an open war which both sides will be able to take settlements from each other.

He doesnt have to claim your settlement in return, but he can. Both sides can take settlements from each other, but you can keep only claimed settlement. If you hold the claimed settlement for 3 turns, the war ends ( but not the second war against you). It also ends if you have his last settlement under siege. You have ten turns to press your claim, after that the claim is no more. Ill also make this clearer in the rules.

Another question, i claimed a settlement and paid 5k, can my ally attack that settlement too or does he has to claim it with me?

Allies can help both sides, but they will have to return settlements samely as the two main factions. They can take claimed settlement instead of their ally that claimed it and give it to him after the war.

Do we have chance to cancel a claim to answer a claim which has made to our.(to clear what i mean i will give examples, as an independent faction i have 2 max limit to make claims and i'm using them but if another player claims one of my settlements can i cancel one of my other claims to claim one of the settlement from the player who attacked me?)

I guess you can cancel your claim.

Thats it for now, i'm sure i will ask some more in future

Cant wait

[HannibalExMachina]

you get a bishop by either recruiting a general of priest. just use the test save and try it out in all your settlements, they all should have one.

[saleska2]

The rules say you can only claim settlements at your border, how does that work with settlements accross the sea?

[Jadli]

The rules say you can only claim settlements at your border, how does that work with settlements accross the sea?

Well, lets say you can claim the lands that are in reach of your ships ( from your coast)?

[zender9]

Thanks for all the answers! There is a last one i think i know you cant capture settlements that you didn't claim but can you siege or block them somehow?Also another , what about the ports ? Do we have to say anything to siege a port, basically im asking here without claiming a settlement and declaring an official war can we siege every port enemy has ?

[Jadli]

You can capture settlements without a claim, but usually you have to return them ( unless its AI/rebel). You cant press a claim, if you have units in enemy territory.

I guess you can block his ports

[zender9]

I start to understanding how all this rules gonna work.Well those were lasts.Now im gonna read history of Venice 1070 to 1100 , wiki won't be enough but im not an history student or something it shall be enough for just playing the game and having fun.

[Jadli]

I guess you can block his ports

BS I take it back. You cant attack anyone who you arent in proper war with, unless (new rule) they have armies in your lands, or ships in reach of your coast

[zender9]

As an excomunicated faction, can i attack Pope's himself, armies(not invading), settlements ?

[Jadli]

yes. Killing him would help. Or if you defeat him he will have to cancel the excommunication

[Hannibal2001]

ok I think hotseats like this have a lot of potential but some rules needs to be changed for example you need to have a claim to conquer rebel settelments and also the part with the antipope that he can be appointed by any independent kingdom so lets say that i appointed an antipope and england did the same thing does that works i mean it says that antipope can excomunicate factions so we'd both excomunicate each other

[Jadli]

Im not sure what do you mean about claims, thats already there.
Antipope protects you from excommunication effects (you can be no longer destroyed). Possibly there might be even more than 2 popes in the same time

[HannibalExMachina]

which happend. oc, if several kings have beef with the pope, it would make more sense for them to team up. if ppl think thats too much, we can limit anti-popes to the german king/emperor, but allow bishops from other kingdoms to take part (already possible).

just a clarification, we are forbidden from buidling forts in territory of factions that havent played their turn yet, right? anf can allied players have eg 2 forts in the same region each?

[Hannibal2001]

Im not sure what do you mean about claims, thats already there.
Antipope protects you from excommunication effects (you can be no longer destroyed). Possibly there might be even more than 2 popes in the same time

Well in the rules says that you need to have a claim to conquer a settlement including AI/rebels.Thats why i asked