[RP HS] Holy Roman Empire (TWC/MTWII Gaming group) BURGUNDY/BAVARIA OPEN!

[Jadli]

civil war breaks out if the opposition elects their own king. the script does this once the current king becomes too unpopular (excommunication, attacking a HRE faction not under imperial ban, etc).

if one king dies (abticates, if we RP), the other becomes sole king. while there is civil war, no king can become emperor (we can treat this more loosely, another counter king was actually elected while henry was back in italy, and still around when he was crowned emperor).

I think it will be better if we remove most of the scripts ( most of them wouldnt work anyway as you told me), and do all this stuff in RP ( admin can add traits/ancillaries if needed).

Counter king is interesting element that shall be certainly added, although it will not be the same as counter candidate. If I get it correctly counter king would replace the previous Roman king, thus there would be no elections. I think the elections will be one of the most entertaining events of the HS, so lets do it that way that if counter king defeats The Roman King, he has a boost in elections .

New rule

- When a group vassals decide The Emperor/The Roman King is unworthy of his title (excommunication, attacking his vassals, etc), they can raise counter king. Everyone from the rebelling coalition has to pay 5k. They elect counter king amongst themselves. If The Roman King/Emperor is excommunicated, the pope can choose whom from the coalition whom shall be counter king ( a character with the best relations with the pope) if the coalition lets him. If they let him choose, they dont have to pay anything. If the counter king dies, they can elect another (everyone hast to pay 5k again, if they cant afford that, they lose or the pope chooses).

- The war ends either with death/abdication ( last remaining settlement under siege) of The Roman King/Emperor. All settlements taken by the coalition from The Roman King/Emperor and his supporters may remain in their hands (except home settlements unless the faction is still excommunicated). New elections begins, the counter king has boost of 2 votes, if he was appointed by the pope, he has boost of 4 votes.

If the coalition loses ( last settlement of counter king under siege), The Roman King/Emperor and his supporters can keep all settlements they took (except home settlements). All settlements will be removed from the faction the counter king comes from ( except home settlements). The faction counter king comes from has to pay fine in amount of its budget, other factions just half of their budget.

Will have to differ it from unorganized war between the ruler and his vassal, and also probably slightly change War between The pope and The Emperor/King

as the game starts, the counter king is rudolf von rheinfelden, the FL of saxony. he was duke of swabia before he was elected, but had to flee north when henry returned from canossa, and never managed to return south. thats why he is the FL and not the duke, the FL of burgundy is rudolfs son and he appointed him duke of swabia, against friedrich von staufen, the duke appointed by henry.

burgundy isnt just the county in this context, it represents the burgundian and swabian followers of rudolf, the count of burgundy included (rheinfelden itself is in the swabian-burgundian border region, on the rhine, at the present day border between germany and switzerland).

This is really interesting stuff. I tried to find some complete description of the scenario but didnt succeed. Considering your knowledge, could you write complete description of the scenario ( unless there is some I missed), so players have something to start their RP from?

they would be excommunicated at the time, yes. keep in mind that a king can be crowned emperor even while excommed, but he has too apoint his own pope.

Yes, Im gonna create some rules about antipope and also about factions supporting the excommunicated faction tomorrow. And something more obviously. I would welcome any help

Also, the invited players have preference in picking factions, so they can freely take any faction from the uninvited person

[HannibalExMachina]

Counter king is interesting element that shall be certainly added, although it will not be the same as counter candidate. If I get it correctly counter king would replace the previous Roman king, thus there would be no elections.

correct.

I think the elections will be one of the most entertaining events of the HS, so lets do it that way that if counter king defeats The Roman King, he has a boost in elections .


the counter king is already the one and only rightful king, from the perspective of his supporters. thus, he is elected like any other king, only there is no other candidate (since the current kings doesnt count obv.). election is more of an euphemism here. only if a king dies, abdicates etc, there is a proper election with more than one candidate. the script always chooses the strongest oponent of the king to to be counterking, oc play may act differently.

as one of my professors once said, there was never really a counterking or antipope in history. both were the real deal to their supporters.

as for some reading, id recommend starting here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_..._Roman_Emperor, or look up wiki for your factions leaders (they have a biography trait called Vita, too).

[Jadli]

Yes, you are right again.

I "finished" the rules, please check them out. Post here, if you wish to change/add/remove something.

I suppose all invited players that wanted to join already has done so, so Ill start inviting other people.

Unfortunately, we found out the mod crashes when you choose more than 11 factions in a hotseat faction select. If we dont find out how to fix it, one HRE faction will have to be removed/merged. I think it should be Duchy of Lower Lorraine, if it comes to that. It would balance the starting scenario a little bit.

[Jadli]

Problem solved, no deleting factions is needed!

[Ventos Mustel]

I'm definitely interested in this one. Throw me whichever faction most needs filling

[Jadli]

HRE needs to get filled, so pick some of these

EDIT

Ill upgrade the rules for independent kingdoms a little bit.

[ArBo]

I've been thinking about joining, but tbh I think I'm a little too inexperienced for this... If you turn out to really have trouble finding enough players, I might change my mind.

[Baelish]

Bayern please

[Ventos Mustel]

Alright, I'll take Upper Lorraine

[Lord Luka]

Thanks for the invite but I can't join any more HS's.

[xXAmonXx]

Wait, I'm Lower Lorraine now?

[StOuFf]

will have a closer look on sunday night

[Jadli]

Wait, I'm Lower Lorraine now?

Shame on me. I thought Nieder is lower, will change op soon

[saleska2]

Alrighty, some questions:

-When can you claim a settlement? Can I claim a settlement on my first turn before I played so I can already siege that settlement?

can someone explain me this rule:

- You are not allowed to claim home settlements of the other factions. Home settlements cant be gifted. If your home settlements is in the hands of other faction, you can start war to take it without paying anything ( after for example imperial ban or excommunication).

-What exactly is defined as "home settlements"

I am also a bit confused by this rule: -By the end of the turn will be "admin turn", when he does all money changes. After he does it, he will check all factions ( by entering their next turn), if they will be in debt, the claim will not be granted.

-Does this mean that money from the player will basicly be removed after every faction has had its income? meaning that if I have 4k florins and I get 1.5k at the end of turn I am still able to put a claim on something?

-Also, can independent factions support the antipope? Or is the antipope only for factions within HRE?

*Btw, If independent factions will be playable I want to switch to Sicily so Milan would be open*

[Jadli]

Alrighty, some questions:

-When can you claim a settlement? Can I claim a settlement on my first turn before I played so I can already siege that settlement?

Yes you can besiege the settlement on the same turn you ask for it. In the end of the whole turn (after all players played one turn) admin removes the money ( there will be preset passwords). If you are discovered you dont have money you will be punished ( the money will not be returned) and the siege will have to be lifted.
If you are an independent kingdom, you could claim something before the 1st turn begin. HRE is in civil war, so HRE factions cant claim anything for now

can someone explain me this rule:

- You are not allowed to claim home settlements of the other factions. Home settlements cant be gifted. If your home settlements is in the hands of other faction, you can start war to take it without paying anything ( after for example imperial ban or excommunication).

-What exactly is defined as "home settlements"

They are listed under RP rules. Home settlement is de iure yours, thus it cant be taken from you. During wars it might be taken, but after the end of the war it has to be returned to you ( unless you are excommunicated, under ban, defeated rebel, etc).

I am also a bit confused by this rule: -By the end of the turn will be "admin turn", when he does all money changes. After he does it, he will check all factions ( by entering their next turn), if they will be in debt, the claim will not be granted.

-Does this mean that money from the player will basicly be removed after every faction has had its income? meaning that if I have 4k florins and I get 1.5k at the end of turn I am still able to put a claim on something?
​

I already answered that when answering the first question. If you are in debt after the money are taken, the claim cancelled.

-Also, can independent factions support the antipope? Or is the antipope only for factions within HRE?

Once there is more than one pope every player can choose who does he consider as the rightful head of the Christendom. Independent/roman/counter kings and Emperors can appoint antipope.


I ask everyone to ask anything you dont understand so we can clarify it before start

[Ventos Mustel]

I'll take Lower Lorraine then I guess

[HannibalExMachina]

so claim means if i want to keep a settlement, right? thus i can occupy it temporarily during civil war without claim? does the king have the right to assign settlements without someone making a claim, since he is, you know, the king?

are home settlements all the starting ones of a faction, if so, which settlements can you claim, since:

You are not allowed to claim home settlements of the other factions.

HRE factions can claim any settlements withing HRE or at its borders

seems contradictory.

Any candidate with at least one vote can claim the title.

is it enough if the vote is from the candidate himself?

have you tested if the money requirements are feasible? you get a lot of cash in the later game if you keep your troops garrisoned bc of free upkeep, but some of the requirements seem a bit high, like 10k to become emperor.

btw, seems i wrote some nonsense here:

the FL of burgundy is rudolfs son and he appointed him duke of swabia, against friedrich von staufen, the duke appointed by henry.

the FL is oc the count of burgundy, something that wouldve been changed for the next version. rudolfs son is only a family member.

[Jadli]

1)Yes, you claim the settlement you want to keep.
You can occupy all settlements except one during any war with any human faction. Whether you can keep them depends on the type of war. In war for claim you can keep only the claimed settlement, during other types of war you usually may keep settlements that are not home settlements. During excommunication/ban you can destroy the faction.

Theoretically, liege can demand any settlement from his vassal, it would probably lead to rebellion...

2)not all starting settlements are home settlements in some cases

3)yea, you can claim any settlement thats not home settlement in the same time

4) well, ill change it to at least one vote from other elector

5)kings purse will be increased. Your vassals/allies are supposed to help you get the money for all those requirements

6)ye, that confused me

I was actually right about what means Nieder, so ill return the factions

[Hannibal2001]

I can take Burgundy and if the Holy Roman Empire is filled i can take France

[JCdestr0yer]

im intrested