Army Attrition Mod?

[weyland]

Hello -- thanks to all modders out there for your great work.

Wondering if there's any kind of "campaign attrition" mod out there, wherein an army in the field gradually loses men b/c of disease & desertion; or if not, can a skilled modder consider writing one?

I've always thought this was a surprising omission in the TW series: the fact that almost all pre-modern armies experienced constant "shrinkage" due to sickness & desertion.

An attrition mod could have some or all of the following features:

*Attrition rate expressed as a percentage (%) or a hard number of men lost, either per stack or per total armed forces, per turn;

*Army support levels/cost adjustable by player: he assigns more or less money to support armies in the field; more = lower attrition, less = higher attrition (reflects effects of food supply, army payroll, etc)

*Attrition rate affected by region, season, & distance: armies in regions w/ higher farm output & advanced roads have lower attrition; winter turns = much higher attrition; distance from nearest "friendly" region; etc

*Effects of plague outbreak: plagues already exist in the game; they should affect army stacks in regions where the plague occurs

*"Supply Troops": maybe a player can assign a percentage of his troops to a supply function representing forces patrolling roads, escorting supply trains, foraging, etc? Higher percentage of troops assigned to supply = lower attrition rate.

I'm sure many of you will think of other interesting/useful features.

It really is kinda odd that the whole notion of attrition is absent from the TW games, other than the basic unit upkeep; logistics and sanitary conditions often had far greater effect on the outcomes of military campaigns than the actual battles did.

I know it's much easier for me to suggest a mod like this than it is to write one Anyone think this a good idea? Weyland

[Immacolata]

I think it is perhaps an unnecessary addition of complexity. In the mod Deus Vult you pay a rather large sum of money when fielding armies. It is simpler, and it results in the same ultimate goal: there are limits to how long you can afford campaigning. In the first case, with attrition, you have to replace dying and deserting troops with new mercs or troops from home. in the latter case you must recall your armies or disband them to save money. It all puts a damper on the player's expansion speed.

[Leatherpenguin]

These are truly great ideas that would elevate the gameplay a lot. Unfortunately I'd guess that the only ones able to implement this would be CA. One for the expansion perhaps?

[Immacolata]

Improve how? All it does is to kill your soldiers. It is not the kind of addition that renders the game more interesting or rewarding. It merely makes it more complex but without any real gain in entertainment considering.

[Leatherpenguin]

Well, I guess everyone is entitled to his opinion. It's a fact that attrition has been extremely prevalent and important factors in loads of wars. He proposes an entirely new way of handling upkeep to combat attrition which would add to the strategy, and to the fun.

It's not like its like the random spawning of rebels this game sees now. Now that is something that is just random and detracts from the game experience. Having something you can control and handle in the best way possible would make the game better for me.

[weyland]

Improve how? All it does is to kill your soldiers. It is not the kind of addition that renders the game more interesting or rewarding. It merely makes it more complex but without any real gain in entertainment considering.

I agree, my idea isn't something that all TW players will automatically embrace.

M2TW attempts to model the warfare, economics, and societies of the Middle Ages, and while the attempt is enjoyably successful, it just seems too unrealistic to allow an army of 10,000 men to spend 10 years parading around (for example) the wastes of Arabia and not suffer from starvation, disease, or desertion.

That's why it work best as a mod: those who are interested can use it, those who aren't don't need to.

[thomonkey]

it's uneccessary. here is the reason why.
everyone is effected by attrition, therefore there is an even playing field, so having everyone free from attrition is also an even playing field.
either way results in the same result.
so attrition would just be a cosmetic effect for immersion.

[bibbledy]

it's uneccessary. here is the reason why.
everyone is effected by attrition, therefore there is an even playing field, so having everyone free from attrition is also an even playing field.
either way results in the same result.
so attrition would just be a cosmetic effect for immersion.

That's incorrect, because attrition rates vary. An army with longer supply lines in more hostile territory will endure more attrition than one with an easier path.

At present, attrition from plague and disasters is already in the game. It would be nice to be able to toggle on attrition in enemy provinces with low income (sparse food) or high public order (the odd sniper in the forest), but allow you to steer your army around attrition like in EU2.

[vikrant]

moved to gathering

[sera]

Would be interested in such a mod - if the attrition rates didn't go overboard. Religion and different culture should also affect attrition rates in addition to those specifically mentioned in the OP.

[Sir Launcelot]

Personally, I like the idea of attrition as mentioned, but I don't think it needs to be as complicated...

supply levels etc... are basically what they have in HOI2 and I think EU2...

why not just make a blanket percentage for production ability vs ( overall territory, size of army, and distance of army to friendly territory )...

thus if your army is spread all over the world, your supply percentage would be horrid thus relating to a combat & morale malus as opposed to just killing people off...

and yes, Immacolata, this would limit how fast a nation could grow and expand, but if you ask me, it makes sense...

[Faramir]

I think it is perhaps an unnecessary addition of complexity. In the mod Deus Vult you pay a rather large sum of money when fielding armies. It is simpler, and it results in the same ultimate goal: there are limits to how long you can afford campaigning. In the first case, with attrition, you have to replace dying and deserting troops with new mercs or troops from home. in the latter case you must recall your armies or disband them to save money. It all puts a damper on the player's expansion speed.

and it works quite well with Dues lo Vult in my opinion. The field cost along with the active rebels really pose the first challange I have had with this game. I have played on VH/VH with quite a few mods and DLV is the hardest one I have seen... anyone else have a different experience?


I'd like to see attrition as well.. not sure why it would addd any complexity, just an additional dose of reality.. all armies lose men in the field...even in the present day... 1941 was a rough winter in the USSR for the Germans for example...