Two "bearded" knifemen behead a French priest in Saint-Etienne-du-Rouvray, near Rouen, after taking him, two nuns, and worshippers hostage in a Catholic church

[Roma_Victrix]

CHURCH HOSTAGE HORROR Elderly priest ‘beheaded’ by two knife attackers who take nuns and ‘several’ worshippers prisoner in French church as ISIS supporters celebrate online: Local media claims Father Jacques Hamel, believed to be 84, was brutally murdered by two 'suspected terror attackers'

Well then, that's horrific if true. French police killed the attackers shortly afterwards.

This just happened, so details are still coming in. It looks like an Islamist terrorist attack. Why else would someone behead a random elderly priest? It also falls in line with the style of murder for priests and worshippers of the Assyrian Eastern Orthodox Christian Church in Iraq and Syria. It also seems like the perfect logic for ISIS, which is dying for a holy war and a "Crusader" army to meet them at Dabiq, Syria to usher in the Apocalypse, as their silly prophecy mined from the Hadiths goes. They'll do anything to goad the West into launching that war. Something tells me they're going to have it sooner or later, despite the unpopularity of the Iraq War and "boots on the ground" strategy in the opinion polls of Europe, the US, Canada, Australia, etc.

EDIT: Now that this thread has been reopened, I'd like to narrow the focus of this thread to a discussion about the French judiciary and French national security, which can include some talk about France's foreign policy if it pertains to this event, but let's not get bogged down in the intricate details about the Syrian War or refugee crisis, both of which have their own threads. Also, Iskar mentions how we shouldn't discuss theology, and although I disagree and find that Sunni (specifically Salafi) Islamic eschatology and theology has everything to do with this attack, drawn out conversations about it belong in the Academy. That's a reasonable compromise. Okay guys, debate! How should France handle national security issues following this and the Nice attack? Is the French judicial system being hard enough on potential terrorists? Including ones who've attempted to flee to Syria to join ISIS? And have clear sympathies towards them? One of the attackers was stopped TWICE from trying to go to Syria to join ISIS, and put under house arrest where he was allowed to leave the home at certain hours of the day on probation.

[Basil II the B.S]

The attackers pledged allegiance to the Islamic state before attacking.

Manuel Valls and leftists: ''we must live with terrorism''.

So, French are basically being ethnically cleansed in their own country because the traitorous left in the government refuses to do anything about it. I still wonder what will be their reaction when French people start fighting back on their own?

''Bohohoho the ebil far rightz''. Of course none of them even dares to show up anymore talking about what to do with the weekly Islamist attacks in France or Germany.

[Emperor Arcturus Mengsk]

Can we stop saying that islam and moderate muslims have nothing to do with this new trend?

It has everything to do with it, they should not allow their faith to have murder preaching clerics within it's ranks.

I honestly don't care about any religion, or if a muslim or christian finds this offensive but religion should be left behind, it's slowing us all down, it's ing backwards and stupid.

I can't even call it medieval, because it predates that.

I hope most people will realise this within my lifetime but I'm holding a small basket, mainstream religion should really be on par with scientology.

[VINC.XXIII]

From a purely christian perspective, this priest definitely accomplished his route to expiation, how much actual priests can boast such an authentic martyrdom? Moreover in his own church, while celebrating the office, in front of his flocks. That story sounds quite like the one of a man who will be canonised.

[Roma_Victrix]

Can we stop saying that islam and moderate muslims have nothing to do with this new trend?

It has everything to do with it, they should not allow their faith to have murder preaching clerics within it's ranks.

I honestly don't care about any religion, or if a muslim or christian finds this offensive but religion should be left behind, it's slowing us all down, it's ing backwards and stupid.

I can't even call it medieval, because it predates that.

I hope most people will realise this within my lifetime but I'm holding a small basket, mainstream religion should really be on par with scientology.

Ironically, I think that both sides are at fault for using classic psychological projection. ISIS basically carries out attacks like this against Christian targets thinking "well if Christians did this to an imam, of course we would wage jihad holy war! Ergo the kafir infidels will wage a Crusade! Hurray!" On the other hand, liberal lefties in the West (I count myself among them) will basically think "well surely this attack is not grounded at all in their religion, Islam, which is about peace, and clearly this is about some underlying social issue bred by socioeconomic oppression of their ethnic minority!" And the cycle continues.

It falls in line with people who don't believe al-Qaeda carried out the 9/11 attacks.



I'd share my condolences with the victims and show solidarity with France, but at this point it seems pretty hallow to do so, and I usually end up just feeling like Ralph Wiggum from the Simpsons whenever he tries to help out and solve things.

[Mithradates]

From a purely christian perspective, this priest definitely accomplished his route to expiation, how much actual priests can boast such an authentic martyrdom? Moreover in his own church, while celebrating the office, in front of his flocks. That story sounds quite like the one of a man who will be canonised.

Yep, martyred in his very own church by islamist savages.
Europe, 2016.
Unbelievable...

[conon394]

Can we stop saying that islam and moderate muslims have nothing to do with this new trend?

Can the West finally stop not saying it is the money house of Saud and it princes and the other gulf states pour into spreading their Wahhabism everywhere... and isolate the house Saud?

http://theweek.com/articles/570297/h...-radical-islam

[pajomife]

there is no turning back, Islam is here to stay and I really don't see how to win using balloons,candles #prayfor or all this modern stuff.

[bigdaddy1204]

Poor guy!

It sounds like the priest who died was a nice man and was much loved by his community. Someone like him is a true example of good religion. We live in sad times where it seems the people who do good are being killed at an increased rate by those who do evil.

On a political level, once again it is disastrous every time something like this happens, Europe gets closer and closer to being taken over by the far right. These are troubling times indeed. It's almost as though these things are being organised deliberately. (No, I'm NOT claiming that they are. But it's just so obvious that this benefits the far right. The result is predictable and inevitable).

Edit - I posted this before I read the post directly above mine. That post is exactly the kind of stupid response I was referring to. No offense, but it's frustrating how easily people fall in to this kind of trap. WAKE UP people. Don't you see you're giving the terrorists exactly what they want. No, I'll answer that for you. You don't. It's been said a thousand times before and a million others like you have made the same mistake. Seeing posts like this makes me really doubt the future of humanity.

[Roma_Victrix]

I'm not yet sure if the "beheaded" claim in The Sun article above is entirely accurate, or at least Reuters is being very cautious about reporting anything beyond the priest's throat being slit with a knife:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-fr...-idUSKCN1060VA

[Basil II the B.S]

Poor guy!

It sounds like the priest who died was a nice man and was much loved by his community. Someone like him is a true example of good religion. We live in sad times where it seems the people who do good are being killed at an increased rate by those who do evil.

On a political level, once again it is disastrous every time something like this happens, Europe gets closer and closer to being taken over by the far right. These are troubling times indeed. It's almost as though these things are being organised deliberately. (No, I'm NOT claiming that they are. But it's just so obvious that this benefits the far right. The result is predictable and inevitable).

Edit - I posted this before I read the post directly above mine. That post is exactly the kind of stupid response I was referring to. No offense, but it's idiotic how easily people fall in to this kind of tap. Like sheep. WAKE UP people.

Not wanting to get killed by Muslims is common sense, not far right.

[Papay]

Cowards. If you have problem with western policies at least target the military not civilians

[conon394]

Islam is here to stay

True but it lot better with the House of Saud making it as extreme as possible. Although this view Jordan (from a bit a go) seems say its tool late:

http://www.breitbart.com/national-se...blem-in-islam/

[bigdaddy1204]

Not wanting to get killed by Muslims is common sense, not far right.

I don't want to be killed either. Between 82% and 97% of the victims of terrorism are Muslims. If you can't tell the difference between "Muslims" and "terrorists", then frankly, that is stupid.

I want to see a global united response against the root causes of terrorism, which one poster has already correctly identified as Saudi Arabia. It's been said before and I'll say it again: stop supporting Saudi Arabia. That country is the main exporter of Wahhabism. Wahabbism is the ideology responsible for terrorism. How can the west say it is fighting terrorism with one side of its face, while with the other it arms and supports the Saudi Wahhabist ideology?

[Roma_Victrix]

No one is going to geopolitically isolate Saudi Arabia so long as they remain one of the greatest oil producers in the world. They've also firmly entrenched themselves against Iran, so any power that is a rival against Iran also finds themselves aligned with Saudi Arabia by default. Their ideology of Wahhabism is poisonous, though, and has to be tackled regardless. I'm not sure how you do that without isolating them, though. So it's a lose-lose situation, it seems.

[conon394]

Cowards. If you have problem with western policies at least target the military not civilians

I think this might be the first time I can say I agree without reservations

[Basil II the B.S]

I don't want to be killed either. Between 82% and 97% of the victims of terrorism are Muslims.

Not in Europe. Europe is supposed to be past religious conflicts but somebody thought that importing millions of people from conflict zones wouldn't also import the conflicts.
That someone is obviously retarded, thus his policy must be undone.

No one is going to geopolitically isolate Saudi Arabia so long as they remain one of the greatest oil producers in the world. They've also firmly entrenched themselves against Iran, so any power that is a rival against Iran also finds themselves aligned with Saudi Arabia by default. Their ideology of Wahhabism is poisonous, though, and has to be tackled regardless. I'm not sure how you do that without isolating them, though. So it's a lose-lose situation, it seems.

The US imposed a ban on oil imports from Iran for much less.
A ban on oil imports from Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE is today necessary.

[bigdaddy1204]

Not in Europe. Europe is supposed to be past religious conflicts but somebody thought that importing millions of people from conflict zones wouldn't also import the conflicts.
That someone is obviously retarded, thus his policy must be undone.

The other day, someone showed me a photograph of British refugees taking shelter in Morocco during WW2. I suppose that is conveniently forgotten.

Also, the number of people imported from Syria is miniscule. I heard the UK has taken less than 500.

No one is going to geopolitically isolate Saudi Arabia so long as they remain one of the greatest oil producers in the world. They've also firmly entrenched themselves against Iran, so any power that is a rival against Iran also finds themselves aligned with Saudi Arabia by default. Their ideology of Wahhabism is poisonous, though, and has to be tackled regardless. I'm not sure how you do that without isolating them, though. So it's a lose-lose situation, it seems.

Sadly true.

I think the west would be far better off allying itself with Iran against Saudi Arabia. At least Iran has a functioning Parliament and the younger generation is increasingly modern and liberal. Saudi Arabia has nothing to offer but oil and terrorism, at least under the current regime.

I was recently outraged to discover the west has sold 72 Eurofighter Typhoon jets to Saudi Arabia. This is an insanely irresponsible and stupid decision. Are they mad? If there is a revolution in Saudi Arabia, which might well happen, it's quite possible those jets could end up in the hands of ISIS. Then think what damage they could do? It's incredibly foolish to sell such weapons to Saudi. We've already seen that ISIS captured millions of dollars of heavy weaponry and armoured vehicles in Iraq from the Americans. There seems no end to the bad judgement and poor decisions.

[squirel]

Can we stop saying that islam and moderate muslims have nothing to do with this new trend?

It has everything to do with it, they should not allow their faith to have murder preaching clerics within it's ranks.

I honestly don't care about any religion, or if a muslim or christian finds this offensive but religion should be left behind, it's slowing us all down, it's ing backwards and stupid.

I can't even call it medieval, because it predates that.

I hope most people will realise this within my lifetime but I'm holding a small basket, mainstream religion should really be on par with scientology.

Yes Sir, you are absolutely correct. I claim full responsibility for this and I have everything to do with it.

[Roma_Victrix]

I don't want to be killed either. Between 82% and 97% of the victims of terrorism are Muslims. If you can't tell the difference between "Muslims" and "terrorists", then frankly, that is stupid.

Well, since you're a Sufi Muslim, ISIS would be probably just as quick to cut your head off for being a heretic as they would the priest for being an infidel. What I'd like to see are some actual Sunni Muslims coming to this thread denouncing the attack. I know a few Iranian guys on the forum, all Shia Muslims of course, and I wouldn't exactly expect the Turkish Sunni Muslims to comment on this. And why should they? This is largely a Sunni Arab and Berber problem in Europe, whereas Pashtun (i.e Pakistani, Afghan) terrorists play a lesser role. We're not seeing unprecedented levels of Indonesians and Kazakhs, who are also Sunni Muslims, perpetrating this type of violence. It is almost always men of North African, Levantine, and Mesopotamian origins, all of them Sunnis (particularly Takfiris and Salafists).