Roman armies are too expensive

[Zirteh]

I've been playing DEI for quite a while now ... and something that I've noticed is that the Roman legions are expensive and hard to maintain.
Currently, in my Rome campaign, I'm about 130 turns into the game, with an income of about 2500.
I've conquered pretty much all North Africa, Spain, that province in Southern Gaul, Cisalpina and Illyria. I can barely have three legions standing by, and considering that at this imperium that I have, with another faction, I could've been able to field at least 5-6 armies. Historically, by the time of Julius Caesar, and then Octavian's, Rome had 21 legions. I realize that not even factions that can field dirt cheap and good armies like the Odrysians cannot field so many armies, but at this time, as Rome, considering the conquered lands, I should've been able to have at least 6 legions at my command. Now I have only three, and besides, I cannot even motivate myself enough to attack big factions mainly due to the trade agreements that bring me at least 500-600 sestertes per turn.
Economy is so harsh in this mod ...
Do you guys ever felt this was an issue to you ?

[TheRazaman]

It sounds like you need to optimize your provinces. Having an income of only 2500 with all of those provinces (especially Italy, Spain and N Africa) is awfully low even with 3 stacks. Also, its important to remember that a full stack doesn't represent a Roman legion, but rather a consular army.

[Zirteh]

Well, yes, a legion is represented by more than 20 units, because there's all the cohorts you need, the auxiliaries and the cavalry (alae) which do not fit in the 20 units standards. But what do you mean by optimizing my provinces ?

[KAM 2150]

The game has only single economic system for all nations, hence all unit costs are balanced around eachother. That being said, your economy just sounds bad and you should improve in it. Also use tech and perks to further reduce upkeep.

[TheRazaman]

Well, yes, a legion is represented by more than 20 units, because there's all the cohorts you need, the auxiliaries and the cavalry (alae) which do not fit in the 20 units standards. But what do you mean by optimizing my provinces ?

For all factions, the game uses a full stack to represent an army. In the Roman Republic this is designated consular army. A legion is simply a sub-unit of the consular army itself; just as the maniple is a sub-unit of the legion and a century a sub-unit of the maniple. Each consular army of this time period was comprised of two legions. So you are currently fielding six legions with your three stacks.

By optimize your provinces I mean to have them each focus on a single primary economic task. For example, Italia should have two tier IV Trade ports and a temple of Neptune to boost maritime commerce. N Africa should be heavily focused on producing food, and thus have other buildings to support +income% from agriculture. Also be sure to recruit and station governors with the appropriate stats in the related province (i.e. a Governor that gives +trade income% should be stationed in Italia not Illyria etc...)

[Zirteh]

Governors are actually great, because it's not about the place where you field them, but they reduce empire maintenance and that seems to be the only thing that makes my income go up as much as trade agreements too. But you''re actually right, I should specialize my provinces with certain ecomonic tasks - but I should say that the African province has four ports cities - if they're all upgraded and given the shrine of Nepture they would produce even more income ..
But now, I'll finish all my wars and start this economic reform ...

[Maetharin]

If you want to you can use this file I created

It´s the earlier version of a private submod which I created to emphasise the differences between levy and professional units.
In this one the effect I used still affects every unit so the costs are about 50% and haven´t been balanced yet,
but it should solve your problem if you don´t want to bother to much with economics.

Now that I think about it, it should work perfectly with a 40 units army playthrough^^

Best regards

[Zirteh]

Thanks for the support, but I'll actually bother with economy - it's what makes the game realistic. Also, I take into consideration what the DEI team has already done to balance the unit costs, considering that Romans legionaires are too OP anyways .

[gornoviceanu]

Regarding economic help:

1. Check the resources available in your provinces. Some have +commerce bonuses, others industrial or agricutural. Try to specialise your province in regard with the resources in that province.

2. Don't focus on only 1 aspect. For example, North Africa province can be a mainly trade province (4 ports) but also has potential for farming since it has the resource in 1 of the cities.

3. When selecting a city inside a certain province, hover your mouse to the bottom left, where you would see your army status. Here you have a info circle for each region, with default bonuses attributed to it. Somehave grazing (lifestock) potential, others commerce etc.

4. Rome and other civilised factions can have a cultural economic power house province.

5. Synergy. Farm provinces work very good with Cattle Forum, Water Tower (aqueduct chain) and Amphorae Maker. Try to build stuff that works together. If you already have 2-3 +% buildings don't make another, go for +income of that % category.


5. Trade agreements. Especially if you control many resources.


Feel free to ask for other info if something is confusing

[Falco]

Ya, optimize that economy. In my current campaign as Rome, I have Italy, the east coast of Spain, Carthage and the city below it (can't remember name), and I have 5 full stacks with 4k+ money coming in each turn.

[Zirteh]

Regarding economic help:

5. Synergy. Farm provinces work very good with Cattle Forum, Water Tower (aqueduct chain) and Amphorae Maker. Try to build stuff that works together. If you already have 2-3 +% buildings don't make another, go for +income of that % category.

Asta chiar a functionat, si am acum income destul de mare. Multumesc pentru sfat !

[gornoviceanu]

Asta chiar a functionat, si am acum income destul de mare. Multumesc pentru sfat !

Cu placere

Poate facem un multiplayer candva.

[Zirteh]

Ar fi calumea daca ar putea face un co-op sau head-to-head cu DEI ... dar nici nu cred ca e compatibil cu multiplayer, n-am incercat niciodata .
Trimite-mi o cerere pe Steam, tot Zirteh ma numesc .

[mirelicus]

Speak english mates,so everybody can understand you

[TFCAliarcy]

If you want to you can use this file I created

It´s the earlier version of a private submod which I created to emphasise the differences between levy and professional units.
In this one the effect I used still affects every unit so the costs are about 50% and haven´t been balanced yet,
but it should solve your problem if you don´t want to bother to much with economics.

It seems that it only affects human units and heavily shifts the effect of change.

[FlashHeart07]

It seems that it only affects human units and heavily shifts the effect of change.

The effect can quickly be made to affect the AI aswell.

[TFCAliarcy]

The effect can quickly be made to affect the AI aswell.

How would I go about doing this?

[FlashHeart07]

How would I go about doing this?

Duplicate the effect in the campaign handicap effects and make sure the "human" box is unchecked


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Richard III]

OT

Didn't want to start a new thread, but a question - gornoviceanu mentioned that cattle forum works with farms? Is this true? I was always under the impression that agricultural/livestock incomes (and the subsequent bonuses applied) were two specific different categories. Anyone who could answer, it'd be much appreciated.

[corsair831]

In a Very Hard difficulty multiplayer campaign I believe I had an income of ~~12500 p/t maintaining 1 legion by ~~T60-70

Are you incorporating light and medium infantry into your legions or just going full heavy infantry?

Scouting is incredibly important; there's no reason to have a legion on a front where you're unlikely to be attacked, reduce the size of that legion to half of what it currently is and station it in a fort or in the city, that'll free you up a bit of money. All told it sounds like your economy just isn't very good though.