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Thread: 84 killed in another terror attack in France (updated attacker's details)

  1. #101
    Muizer's Avatar member 3519
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    Default Re: 73+ killed in another terror attack in France

    Quote Originally Posted by Humble Warrior View Post
    Sooner or later we have to act, no matter how distasteful it be to us.
    In a mental state where people are frustrated by such flagrant disruption of their way of life, people crave action, retribution even, and reassurance that it won't happen again. When such actions are not forthcoming it is much more palatable for many to accuse government officials of incompetence or dubious morality than it is to face a harsh reality where there are no simple solutions and where pretending otherwise only makes things worse.

    I think more people in this forum should ask themselves whether what they advocate is perhaps more an expression of their levels of frustration than actual, viable policy.
    "Lay these words to heart, Lucilius, that you may scorn the pleasure which comes from the applause of the majority. Many men praise you; but have you any reason for being pleased with yourself, if you are a person whom the many can understand?" - Lucius Annaeus Seneca -

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    Default Re: 84 killed in another terror attack in France (updated attacker's details)

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post


    France surrenders.

    Honestly, this is why the progressive left is utterly worthless.
    They created a problem, sold it like the paradise of multiculturalism and now tell you to get killed and live with it. Wow.
    I'd rather deport all muslims(not something I support at this point) than "learn to live" with terrorism. Terrorism is never something that should be tolerated.
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  3. #103
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    Default Re: 73+ killed in another terror attack in France

    Quote Originally Posted by Muizer View Post
    In a mental state where people are frustrated by such flagrant disruption of their way of life, people crave action, retribution even, and reassurance that it won't happen again. When such actions are not forthcoming it is much more palatable for many to accuse government officials of incompetence or dubious morality than it is to face a harsh reality where there are no simple solutions and where pretending otherwise only makes things worse.

    I think more people in this forum should ask themselves whether what they advocate is perhaps more an expression of their levels of frustration than actual, viable policy.
    More talk. Ok, let`s talk while more attacks ready themselves.

    I see it like this. When people are dying left, right and centre, continuously that is bad, very bad.

    What will you do when someone suddenly starts shooting up your restaurant as you eat? Your school as you learn? YOU as you walk down the street, thinking it only happens elsewhere.

    Sooner or later you must FIGHT. And you can`t waste time thinking, `That poor person who`s trying to take away my life right now must be disenfranchised in some way,` while he`s shooting at you after killing several other people who spent time thinking about it.

    But it doesn`t matter. I guess we will procrastinate until we see flames in the streets and smoke piling high and only when your door is being beaten down (because there are no more Police to help), you will finally pick up that makeshift weapon and fight for yours and your family`s life.

    Then you`ll remember what I wrote.

  4. #104
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    Default Re: 73+ killed in another terror attack in France

    Quote Originally Posted by Setekh View Post
    Since 2001? Then that number would go down by 2,996 people which makes 81 people. Why are you relying on a single attack to argue about a trend?
    Actually it would go down to 95 people because I did not include the suicide bombers for 9/11. So 3,091 minus 2,996 is 95.
    But if there is a trend why would we remove 9/11 from said trend?
    That doesn't make any sense. Even if we did the 95 deaths caused by Jihadis outnumbers the almost 60 caused by Right Wing extremists in the USA since then. Considering how there are Far Right organizations like the KKK in America which number some 8,000, yet there are still only about 60 dead from about 2003 onward killed by Far Right attackers.
    The number of attacks in the USA are almost the same. 46 from the Jihadis (47 if we include 9/11) and about 50 from the Far Right. The dead caused by Jihadis still outnumbers the amount of dead by the Far Right, with or without 9/11.

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  5. #105
    Col. Tartleton's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: 73+ killed in another terror attack in France

    Quote Originally Posted by Muizer View Post
    In a mental state where people are frustrated by such flagrant disruption of their way of life, people crave action, retribution even, and reassurance that it won't happen again. When such actions are not forthcoming it is much more palatable for many to accuse government officials of incompetence or dubious morality than it is to face a harsh reality where there are no simple solutions and where pretending otherwise only makes things worse.

    I think more people in this forum should ask themselves whether what they advocate is perhaps more an expression of their levels of frustration than actual, viable policy.
    I mean NATO could invade Syria, crush the rebels, overthrow the government, put in a French military dictatorship and ship back the refugees once the shooting stops and things stabilize.

    It'd take a week probably.
    Last edited by Col. Tartleton; July 15, 2016 at 03:26 PM.
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  6. #106

    Default Re: 84 killed in another terror attack in France (updated attacker's details)

    I dont think we should punish all muslims, just send agents to every mosque in the country to record every imam's service and any of them we catch endorsing jihad or encouraging violence we charge with incitement and exile to somalia.
    Last edited by Greyblades; July 15, 2016 at 03:26 PM.
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    Maiar93's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: 73+ killed in another terror attack in France

    Quote Originally Posted by Setekh View Post
    Jihadism? You do realize that that's a 21st century term? You're talking to me about "something" that comes from Islam, an almost 15 century old religion, through a 21st century term. Does that not tell you something?

    Accepting the absurdity that Islam, as an ideology, somehow has a hand in all of this, small or big, doesn't accomplish anything. It merely opens the door to more open persecution of Muslims as a group.
    You are making a non sequitur, again. The age of the term has no bearing to what are its ideological underpinnings.

    Your second statement is merely an opinion. I have a different one, and discussing it with you will lead to nothing.
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    Default Re: 73+ killed in another terror attack in France

    Quote Originally Posted by Muizer View Post
    In a mental state where people are frustrated by such flagrant disruption of their way of life, people crave action, retribution even, and reassurance that it won't happen again. When such actions are not forthcoming it is much more palatable for many to accuse government officials of incompetence or dubious morality than it is to face a harsh reality where there are no simple solutions and where pretending otherwise only makes things worse.

    I think more people in this forum should ask themselves whether what they advocate is perhaps more an expression of their levels of frustration than actual, viable policy.
    Is being told to live with terrorism a viable policy?

    The solution is beyond simple but is extremely difficult. Imprison every single government official in Washington DC. Guarantee you ISIS will fall and the Saudi's will need to find another terrorist ally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton View Post
    I mean NATO could invade Syria, crush the rebels, overthrow the government, put in a French military dictatorship and ship back the refugees once the shooting stops and things stabilize.

    It'd take a week probably.
    Literally just stop sending weapons to rebels in Syria. France should be looking west, not east in placing their anger.
    Last edited by Boyar Son; July 15, 2016 at 04:22 PM.

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    Default Re: 73+ killed in another terror attack in France

    Quote Originally Posted by Boyar Son View Post
    Is being told to live with terrorism a viable policy?
    You're being told your safety cannot be guaranteed 100% and that every once in a while police/intelligence services will fail to prevent an attack. You think it's unacceptable they're being candid about this?
    "Lay these words to heart, Lucilius, that you may scorn the pleasure which comes from the applause of the majority. Many men praise you; but have you any reason for being pleased with yourself, if you are a person whom the many can understand?" - Lucius Annaeus Seneca -

  10. #110

    Default Re: 73+ killed in another terror attack in France

    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton View Post
    I mean NATO could invade Syria, crush the rebels, overthrow the government, put in a French military dictatorship and ship back the refugees once the shooting stops and things stabilize.

    It'd take a week probably.

    Can people remember what happened in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya?

    Have to agree with Boyar's son with this one, perhaps a first. Syria has a standing army, Assad's and NATO has been busy arming its enemies, some of whom are formar Al-Quaeda. It is a frankly ridiculous situation that we have to rely on Putin and the Iranians of all people to help with the ground war against ISIS. Why can't NATO governments drop the regime change nonsense and help put an end to the civil war rather than prolong it?


    Quote Originally Posted by Mithradates View Post
    This again.

    Just to make this clear, there are Europeans, and there are muslims. Two different things because islam isnt compatible with western civilization. There is no such thing as a magical "us", either you are "we" or you are "them". No middle ground.
    I don't consider Eastern Europe as "western" and whether the current version of Hungary is civilised by the standards of non-A8 countries is up for debate.
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  11. #111

    Default Re: 73+ killed in another terror attack in France

    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton View Post
    I mean NATO could invade Syria, crush the rebels, overthrow the government, put in a French military dictatorship and ship back the refugees once the shooting stops and things stabilize.

    It'd take a week probably.
    If it was on you the whole world will be destroyed in two weeks. If the Nato or US attacks Syria directly there will be WW3.Iran and Russia won't allow this.no country in the world has the right to attack a country unless they declare war to them first you do not have any right to meddle in countries like what you did before in Iran.this kind of thoughts makes me think it's better to call the west "Wild" like before not civilized.

    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    Can people remember what happened in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya?

    Have to agree with Boyar's son with this one, perhaps a first. Syria has a standing army, Assad's and NATO has been busy arming its enemies, some of whom are formar Al-Quaeda. It is a frankly ridiculous situation that we have to rely on Putin and the Iranians of all people to help with the ground war against ISIS. Why can't NATO governments drop the regime change nonsense and help put an end to the civil war rather than prolong it?
    fighting with these kind of terrorist is not like fighting a regular army of a country.the western governments and their allies must stop supporting the rebels and terrorists.
    If Iran had not helped Iraq and Syria, both of them would had captured by ISIS a long time ago.Iran drove the ISIS back and you say it's ridiculous? USA is only playing with the terrorists not fighting them.It's always a same pattern;create chaos and loot the countries like what happened Iraq , Afghanistan and Libya before.
    Last edited by Fardin; July 15, 2016 at 06:29 PM.
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  12. #112
    EmperorBatman999's Avatar I say, what, what?
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    Default Re: 84 killed in another terror attack in France (updated attacker's details)

    I'm surprised by the distinct lack of response on my social media feed about this event, even for France where I was loaded with posts for Paris awhile back. Have these events really become sohabitual that we have stopped reacting?

  13. #113
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    Default Re: 73+ killed in another terror attack in France

    Quote Originally Posted by Muizer View Post
    You're being told your safety cannot be guaranteed 100% and that every once in a while police/intelligence services will fail to prevent an attack. You think it's unacceptable they're being candid about this?
    No, you're right, I see it your way now. Terrorism is a normal occurrence. It's about time we step into the future and live like people in Rio De Janeiro do, nothing strange about that.

    Did I copy your thoughts exactly or am I missing something?

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mithradates View Post
    Just to make this clear, there are Europeans, and there are muslims. Two different things because islam isnt compatible with western civilization. There is no such thing as a magical "us", either you are "we" or you are "them". No middle ground.
    I don't give a what religion people practice in a private sphere. Nor do I care what religion or ideology people try to impose on others in the public sphere. It's that fact that they impose them at all that's reprehensible. According to your philosophy it's more acceptable to throw molotov cocktails at mosques than it is to throw at churches, when both are equally disgusting.

    As for "western civilisation", I'm not content to define its values in the light of our more distant and often murky past alone, in which we happened to be predominantly christian. Imho all religions are pretty much equally backward and thus we should, in the public sphere, counter people's attempts to indoctrinate their children with these laughable fairytales much more vigorously than is happening now.

    If you think that is too soft an approach, I already explained that's probably your frustration speaking. Think about it, though, if you can. Is it not pitiful when all someone can come up with in the face of religious terror is to define themselves as its antithesis. If I ask you what western civilisation means, can you come up only with "well.........it's not Islamic? How the hell are we ever going to convince people to accept or join "western civilisation" if all we can define it by is "anti-something else"?

    The only thing we can really do to counter these backward ideologies is to leave all that behind, rekindle the spirit of enlightenment and humanism and be assertive about it in every aspect of the public sphere, above all in education. And yes, that's going to take a looong time and the arrival of many muslims in Europe certainly is a setback, when we just about got people to stop imposing christianity. But, if that's what it takes then so be it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boyar Son View Post
    No, you're right, I see it your way now. Terrorism is a normal occurrence. It's about time we step into the future and live like people in Rio De Janeiro do, nothing strange about that.

    Did I copy your thoughts exactly or am I missing something?
    Rather, the complete absence of terrorism is not, and has never been, a realistic expectation. As for Rio de Janeiro, I'm not familiar with how people live there or its relevance to this discussion, so I would never make any claims about that.
    Last edited by Iskar; July 16, 2016 at 05:23 AM. Reason: consecutive posts merged and censor bypass removed
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  15. #115
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    Default Re: 84 killed in another terror attack in France (updated attacker's details)

    Rio de Janeiro has massive crime, profiling is frowned upon by the populace, massive neighborhoods infested with criminals right next door, people die across the street and no one bats an eye. Corpses are found throughout the streets often. Of course it is a bit exaggerated but that is the gist of it. So I suppose his question is whether France will become like that with Islamic terror attacks and migrant crime.

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  16. #116

    Default Re: 84 killed in another terror attack in France (updated attacker's details)

    Quote Originally Posted by StarDreamer View Post
    I'd rather deport all muslims(not something I support at this point) than "learn to live" with terrorism. Terrorism is never something that should be tolerated.
    Deporting natives? To where?


  17. #117

    Default Re: 84 killed in another terror attack in France (updated attacker's details)

    So 2 options on the table.

    1) Stop arming rebels in Syrian civil war that by now creates all kind of terrorist networking that later comes to West..

    2) Keep saying on how the terrorists were poor innocent disenfranchised people, and keep making Syrian civil war longer with a higher death toll, send more weapons to prospective future terrorists, and keep holier than thou speeches on how "we must suffer terrorism because of events several centuries ago" while ignoring the events of now.
    Last edited by fkizz; July 15, 2016 at 07:40 PM.
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  18. #118
    Humble Warrior's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: 73+ killed in another terror attack in France

    Quote Originally Posted by Muizer View Post

    The only thing we can really do to counter these backward ideologies is to leave all that behind, rekindle the spirit of enlightenment and humanism and be assertive about it in every aspect of the public sphere, above all in education. And yes, that's going to take a looong time and the arrival of many muslims in Europe certainly is a setback, when we just about got people to stop imposing christianity. But, if that's what it takes then so be it.
    I really don`t get this logic. So you`re basically saying we just duck and dodge the death and bullets and hope that our enlightened ways will change things by some kind of Osmosis? Seriously? You even say it will take a long time.

    How long? 500 dead long? 1000 dead long? 20000 people dead long? Millions dead long? Billions dead? Do you want to be first in this queue?

    This is `stick your head in the sand` logic.
    Last edited by Humble Warrior; July 15, 2016 at 08:02 PM.

  19. #119
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    Default Re: 73+ killed in another terror attack in France

    Quote Originally Posted by Muizer View Post
    Rather, the complete absence of terrorism is not, and has never been, a realistic expectation.
    Delusion.

    As for Rio de Janeiro, I'm not familiar with how people live there
    Ignorance.

    or its relevance to this discussion, so I would never make any claims about that
    Dodging the fact that came and bit you in the ass.

    Quote Originally Posted by Humble Warrior View Post
    I really don`t get this logic. So you`re basically saying we just duck and dodge the death and bullets and hope that our enlightened ways will change things by some kind of Osmosis? Seriously? You even say it will take a long time.

    How long? 500 dead long? 1000 dead long? 20000 people dead long? Millions dead long? Billions dead? Do you want to be first in this queue?

    This is `stick your head in the sand` logic.
    The hell do you expect from someone in the Netherlands, lives don't really mean anything to him, just the value of the euro and some hollow beliefs that only ever worked with a single homogeneous group of people. The pendulum will swing back and hit the left on its ugly backside.

    Last edited by Boyar Son; July 15, 2016 at 10:00 PM.

  20. #120

    Default Re: 73+ killed in another terror attack in France

    Quote Originally Posted by Humble Warrior View Post
    I really don`t get this logic. So you`re basically saying we just duck and dodge the death and bullets and hope that our enlightened ways will change things by some kind of Osmosis? Seriously? You even say it will take a long time.

    How long? 500 dead long? 1000 dead long? 20000 people dead long? Millions dead long? Billions dead? Do you want to be first in this queue?

    This is `stick your head in the sand` logic.
    They have some shameful deathwish and want others to follow. Their rethoric has a Jonestown flavour.
    It will be seen that, as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else.

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