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Thread: [Submod] Enhanced Campaign Movement for EB 2.2b

  1. #1
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    Default [Submod] Enhanced Campaign Movement for EB 2.2b

    Spoiler for original post
    Playing another mod while waiting for 2.2b, 12tpy really has me spoiled. And I imagine it'd be even more fantastic with EB, especially with Roman office system and a year actually affording some meaningful time with which to do something.

    Anyone else into the idea? Anyone with the time/ability to do something about it? I figure it'd take a lot of attention to detail to make sure everything falls in line with the longer timescale, from building/training times, to cultural conversion rates, to who knows what else, in order to be a perfect 1:1 transition from the intended 4tpy. I'dunno. I'd love it.


    Turning this thread into submod now to save space and make into something useful that grew out of it in the first place.

    So I ended up trying and loving a longer campaign character/army movement range, with the caveat being that I didn't actually play the test campaign myself as the player, rather just let the AI take over and run its course over several decades (so I imagine a player might be able to exploit it and make things easier on themselves, but I'll leave that up to you), about 150 turns. Good things happened, in my estimation. Exciting things. Things like this -

    Spoiler for campaign screenshots

    Around 258 BC, the Leusitane begin sending raiding parties up North

    Eventually assembling larger hosts and launching full scale invasion

    And by 255 BC, the Leusitane had taken this bit of Northern territory for themselves


    At about the same time, the Greek League was sending excursions into the Mediterranean

    They took island territories from Carthage, as well as from the Epirotes, then reinforced their new holdings with troops from the islands back home



    The largest extent (oh shoot, no it's not actually, they had lost Sparte by the time I took this zoomed in screenshot of the map) of the Greek Empiric League around 249 BC

    Here's the world at 249 BC

    They eventually did lose some of that territory back to Carthage and Epirus, and the Ptolemies had even taken Rhodes by 235 BC, where I stopped for now


    From my very rough estimations, armies move at about 10km/day on average... I think. All the same movement modifiers that are in play regularly still apply, relevant to the increased values now, so traits and weather and whatever else that helps or hinders movement will have its effect, including for agents who can make some nice long trips at a much faster pace which probably makes sense for solo or small groups of travelers. And generals/FMs can move across the map real well on their own without attached armies, for getting to and fro cities, handling business. It all pretty much makes sense to me, scale wise. At least, definitely more so than the scale is by default, which is I'm almost positive painstakingly slow for army march speeds compared to any numbers I've seen in what little research I did online for this. And even though I initially wanted to make this change mainly just for this reason, the realism aspect, it turned out to have a big positive effect on the gameplay itself in my opinion. Classic win-win.

    Some more positive gameplay effects with how AI handled its armies included the way it attacked targets and reinforced its own forces. Even though a lot of small groups or individual units wouldn't join into single large armies, the way they would array those units all around a target was really cool, and might make for tougher battles against AI as the player I imagine (or easier, depending on how you play it). Because of how enemy reinforcements would be coming into the battlefield from all sides since a lot of times they'd move many single armies and partially surround the enemy, since they had the leeway to move and arrange units as they saw fit for the most part. And it's not like since the AI has this newfound ability to move really far, it uses 100% of the available distance all the time. In fact, most of the time it just moved armies around to key points, borders, ambush locations, reinforcements, things like that. It's just simply the fact that it was able to do this in one or two moves, rather than cueing up for several turns and having plans get interrupted and things change before they're ever able to be enacted in the dynamic campaign environment. This actually ends up making the campaign feel more dynamic, but also the AI more responsive within it, which is like a double boost of awesome.

    There's honestly way too much I wanted to say about all this as I was watching a lot of the campaign unfold and getting all excited over what I was seeing and realizing the potential, but I didn't take down notes and it was a week or two ago at this point so some of the finer points have escaped my memory. Also I've rambled on enough at this point and I feel like the best way to get an idea for what this looks like is if you try it for yourself, so

    Here's the quick and dirty:

    • Use Notepad++ (as opposed to default Notepad or other text editors to avoid potential file corruption issues) to open ...\Medieval II Total War\mods\ebii\data\descr_character.txt (make a copy of it first though, in case you want to revert)
    • Ctrl+F to bring up search bar and look for entries named starting_action_points
    • Change the value for each of them to 500 (starting with the ones from under "type named character") and save


    Or you can download the descr_character.txt I've attached to this post and overwrite the one at the location mentioned above. It's just the default EB 2.2b one with this change made to it. But save a copy of the default one in case you want to go back, just remember you'll have to start a new campaign to do so. I chose 500 as the value based on initial estimations with the default, and what I wanted to aim for based on some numbers I saw thrown around online for what speed ancient armies might have marched at . It turned out to be right around where I wanted it and worked well, but you can feel free to mess around to your heart's content if you want to fine tune, give different characters/agents unique numbers or whatever it is you feel might make for a better experience. I hope someone tries this and likes it as much as I think I do!
    Attached Files Attached Files

  2. #2

    Default Re: Any plans for a comprehensive 12tpy mod?

    I haven't tried this out yet but there's something like this: 12 tpy script
    I haven't tested it yet so I'm not sure if it works for EBII.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Any plans for a comprehensive 12tpy mod?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCataphract View Post
    I haven't tried this out yet but there's something like this: 12 tpy script
    I haven't tested it yet so I'm not sure if it works for EBII.
    Thanks for this! Will definitely be looking into it.

    In the meantime, recently I'd been thinking about messing with movement distances to better reflect something closer to reality with 4tpy. If it turns out to work pretty well, might even be able to forego the 12tpy since characters, say Roman ones with limited time offices, could still accomplish stuff during that time instead of spending it all travelling... maybe? I remember having played around with these settings sometime in the past, but don't remember where I landed with it, whether I found it better with the longer distances or if there were problems that cropped up. I'dunno, we'll see how it turns out.

  4. #4
    Gigantus's Avatar The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it
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    Default Re: Any plans for a comprehensive 12tpy mod?

    Converting the script to 12tpy is rather extensive work, a good number of monitor conditions (+- 100) are based on turn numbers which would need to be revised and in most cases have to be adjusted. There are other conditions directly linked to the tpy script which also require revising.

    This is one of the decisions that has to be made before work on scripting (EDA, EDCT and campaign script) begins.
    Last edited by Gigantus; July 17, 2016 at 06:26 AM.



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    Default Re: Any plans for a comprehensive 12tpy mod?

    Ah yes, I figured there were a whole lot of things dependent on the turns per year, that's why I knew a simple age of characters/build time fix wouldn't be enough to be comprehensive and take into account all these other things. Which is mainly why I don't assume someone not on the team would be able to do it, cause how could anyone else know all these conditions that are affected by turn times and all that kinda stuff. It'd probably be a nice option to have at some point, but I know it's definitely not a priority in any way. Causes its own little weird quirks anyway, with characters taking so long to age, and wars not slowing down any, sometimes a whole faction's roster of family members gets wiped out before the new crop has had time to mature and pretty sizable empires can turn "rebel" (something I've noticed in another mod with 12tpy). This can actually lead to some kinda cool outcomes during campaigns, but I can see how people might not necessarily like it. Also if building times were to be revised to take the same number of years, some of the ones that take say, 12 turns now, would take 36 turns... I can also see how people might not be into that idea, heh. And of course a bunch of other little things, like wars perhaps lasting only a few months or a year or two over the course of the same number of turns, instead of more "realistic" sounding several years long wars with 4tpy.

    But anyway, I think a better solution (if the relatively short distances armies move can be considered a problem based on what would be more realistic distances armies could actually move) would just be increasing movement points for characters/armies. I still haven't actually gotten around to tinkering with that stuff yet, because I didn't want to change the dynamics of an ongoing campaign and thought I'd wait until I'm done with it and just do testing with a fresh one. If that day ever comes, I'll be sure to post some follow ups on how it goes and if there are any promising/troubling outcomes as a result.

    Thanks for the info!

  6. #6
    Gigantus's Avatar The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it
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    Default Re: Any plans for a comprehensive 12tpy mod?

    Movement points can be adjusted very simply in the descr_characters file for every agent. The caveat of longer distances are longer turn processing times...

    Use a good text editor to work with TXT files - Notepad++ is good and freeware, and always keep back ups. The default Wordpad or Notepad tend to mess things up formatting wise.
    Last edited by Gigantus; July 17, 2016 at 07:17 AM.



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    Default Re: Any plans for a comprehensive 12tpy mod?

    Thanks. I'm trying some changes now, didn't seem to be save compatible which is fine. With a new campaign it works fine and looks interesting. I was hoping to test how this might go with a hotseat campaign. Are there any issues with doing that with EBII, as far as campaign script or anything else? I want to set the faction control to AI and let it run for a while, checking in sometimes and seeing how things are progressing, and also turning off fow and seeing how things look with AI movement. Also, is there any built-in way to start a hotseat with EBII or does it have to manually be configured with new files and stuff?

  8. #8
    Gigantus's Avatar The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it
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    Default Re: Any plans for a comprehensive 12tpy mod?

    I think version 2.2 has been set up for user friendly hot seat. Go via the multi player option, start with rome. Remove fog of war ( not advisable to use the 'follow AI' option). Then type control f_rome and off you go in automatic mode. Type the same again to get control of rome again.



  9. #9
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    Default Re: Any plans for a comprehensive 12tpy mod?

    Thanks for that. Hadn't noticed there was a built in multi player option and just ended up doing the manual way last night, creating the .bat file and separate config file and all that, watched/let pass about five years with all movement points set to 500. Wow! I'm so excited about this. I wonder why more mods don't have these longer movement ranges. There must be some kind of reason, some drawback that most people have run into that makes them decide the tradeoff isn't worth it. I haven't encountered it yet. The AI armies move very well, not even taking advantage of the full range of movement available most of the time, which of course makes sense and is a good thing. But just having the option available, and once in a while using it, seems to be working out perfectly so far. From my very rough estimates, I'm guessing with this setting the corresponding maximum movement speed of armies is about 6 miles per day. I've seen some mentions of that number and ones close enough to it as being representative of what ancient armies might have moved at to make me feel pretty good about it being realistic enough. Definitely more so than the fraction of that it was before, where it would take a year to move a distance it should only take a few weeks/months or so.

    Anyway, I'm still running that campaign, currently turned back off "Follow AI movements" to let it run some more turns, then sit back down and turn it on to watch some more real time action. Faction expansion so far looks fine to me, I'll be keeping an eye on that and taking some progress screenshots along the way to share down the road. I'm actually pretty bummed now about not being able to continue my campaign with this change since the save doesn't load with the change, I would love to switch to this and keep playing now that I've experienced it and feel like it's a huge improvement.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: [Submod] Enhanced Campaign Movement for EB 2.2b

    Updated and converted into submod for increased movement range, check the first post!

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