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Thread: Gameplay tester Feedback

  1. #1

    Default Gameplay tester Feedback

    Please post any suggestions you have for the mod while playing or bugs you encounter here

  2. #2

    Default Re: Gameplay tester Feedback

    Been enjoying this mod immensely and I can’t wait to see how things progress. Here are a few bugs reports and suggestions from the 20 or so hours I’ve put into it so far. Note that this is exclusively from Reikland playthroughs


    I'll start off with a few bugs I've encountered.

    Missing punctuation in description / localisation - This one is so super minor I almost feel bad for adding it, but in most of the tooltip descriptions for the general & hero skills added by the mod, there’s a “.” missing at the end. This is more just for consistency than anything, as the skills that come with the base game do have it in the tooltip.

    Recruitment card bug - Some buildings, noticeably the Empire Training Field / Rally Field / Barracks buildings seem to have a large amount of duplicate unit cards in the construction- and building overview menu. I have not tested with any factions besides Empire / Reikland.
    When doing regular recruitment it doesn’t seem to have much of an impact, beyond making it difficult to see what you unlock prior to building it, but when doing global recruitment you get multiple duplicate cards of the exact same unit type which clogs up the global recruitment selection panel.





    Vampire Counts / Sylvanian archer unit bug (VC version of Huntsman?) - When hovering over the unit card it is completely blank, displaying no name or text.

    Outriders - They seem to sometimes expel all their ammunition within a matter of seconds. I’m not sure if this is because they are set to fire 6 shots per volley, but deploying two units in vanguard just in front of the enemy deployment zone usually allows you to practically machine-gun any general or monstrous unit instantly, which is absolutely devastating against the vampire counts in particular, who have a very poor selection of ranged units to punish those kinds of hyper-aggressive vanguard deployments. Here is an extremely short replay just to illustrate - http://tinyurl.com/h254nmq


    Moving in to balance and suggestions - food for thought more so than anything else.

    Pistoliers - Currently extremely devastating against any army that is infantry or cavalry focused, like Chaos and Vampire Counts. Extremely effective against even heavily armoured, elite units.
    I think a potential solution might simply be to flip the statlines, making it so they deal 20 armor piercing damage (which is still very significant for a ranged weapon) and 60 base damage. I know that this mod focuses on realism, and from what I can gather, smaller caliber flintlock pistols would have a very hard time penetrating heavy, high quality armour.
    Here are a couple of very anecdotal sources, so take it with a grain of salt, but I figured I’d add them for posterity
    https://www.quora.com/How-would-a-kn...intlock-pistol
    https://answers.yahoo.com/question/i...0100923AAQpQYk

    General and Agent skills rebalance - This is very minor, and is more of a suggestion for the sake of design consistency than anything else. Most of the stat-boosting base skills in the game are tiered so that the early skillpoints you put into most abilities are less valuable than the later ones. I noticed that many of the skills added do not follow this design rule, but rather are linear upgrades that give you equal benefit for each point spent, which does not reward deep specialization in the same way most base skills do.
    Take the base skill “Honest Steel” as an example:
    1 skill point gives +3 defense to units
    2 skill points gives +7 attack and +7 defense to units (+7 attack and +4 defense from tier 1, for a total of +11 stat points)
    3 skill points gives +12 attack and +12 defense to units (+5 attack and +5 defense from tier 2, for a total of +10 stat points)

    Both tier 2 and tier 3 are roughly equal in the benefit that they give, but are still significantly stronger than the first skill point. I personally think some of the new skills would benefit from a slight rebalance to make points 2 and 3 more valuable. Some skills, like Supply Chain efficiency, and the skills that modify ranged and artillery damage, reload and range, could do with minor adjustments.

    The exception to this are skills that unlock entirely new abilities, like the base skill Lightning Strike. In those cases it is absolutely fine to have the first skill point be the most significant, though that applies more to agents than generals.

    I’m not suggesting that the skills are too strong or too weak as is, simply that they don’t quite follow the same progression design as the base skills.

    General firearms balance - Obviously, black powder weapons are very powerful, and I do love the feel of them in the game at the moment. My only concern is that their armor penetration even at very long ranges gives them even more of an advantage than they would have in a ‘realistic’ setting.
    Early firearms did not have much penetration at very long ranges, and ideally the game would allow us to model that, but I don’t know if the game allows for adjusting projectile armor penetration relative to range increments (I’d honestly be very surprised if we could).
    By building your generals so they give extra bonuses to ranged units through reduced reload time, extra range and extra damage, I found my handgunners leveled up extremely quickly and became capable of inflicting extreme casualties to any army before they managed to close the distance. While the accuracy certainly suffers, a gunline of 4 handgunners can easily reduce a full strength infantry unit to half strength with one volley at max range of 260. This, compiled with the reduced unit speeds, even when double timing, resulted in my handgunners racking up 150-250 kills no problem at all and without suffering any casualties. While pike-and-shot tactics are extremely fun and satisfying to pull off against an enemy that outnumbers you, going up against armies that are in your weight class becomes almost trivial, with only a small number of firearm units.



    As I mentioned earlier, I think the ideal solution would be to have armor penetration reductions at different range increments, if such a thing is possible, but somehow I doubt that very much. An alternative solution might be to decrease gunner accuracy to make them even less effective at long ranges, give certain units a significant boost to speed to help close the distance such as warhounds and warbeasts, or even flat out reducing the armor piercing damage done by firearms units, to give somewhat of an average. Personally I don’t like the idea of decreasing the flat damage reduction, but even so, firearms do seem to have too much going for them at the moment. I’ll leave the actual balancing for the people who know what they’re doing!

    Thanks for putting this mod out there, I'm excited to follow the development and help out in whatever small ways I can.

  3. #3
    Elric von Rabenfels's Avatar The Devil Inside
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    Default Re: Gameplay tester Feedback

    Thank you so much for your feedback!

    We'll discuss this and reply in detail a bit later.
    What I can already say is that I'm in agreement regarding firearms (I feel your point on early firearms, as medieval living history enthusiast and hobby-historian).
    - What can change the nature of a man?

  4. #4

    Default Re: Gameplay tester Feedback

    @ Rotte
    "Recruitment card bug - Some buildings, noticeably the Empire Training Field / Rally Field / Barracks buildings seem to have a large amount of duplicate unit cards in the construction- and building overview menu. I have not tested with any factions besides Empire / Reikland.
    When doing regular recruitment it doesn’t seem to have much of an impact, beyond making it difficult to see what you unlock prior to building it, but when doing global recruitment you get multiple duplicate cards of the exact same unit type which clogs up the global recruitment selection panel."

    this is not a bug, in fact what you see was the first step in the Empire AOR system, the newest update added Unit UI Icons with regional shields.


    About the Outriders, they have enough ammunition for 3 volleys but fire 6 rounds per volley yes. I was unable to download your example as my antivirus doesnt like that site. If youd like to send something to me dropbox works the best

    About Firearms: they are in a transitional phase right now as I continue to get them where I want them. We will be aiming for realism in the department.
    However no need to worry about Armour, its my speciality. That said dont expect many, really very very few units to have anything like a bulletproof defense. (feel free to message me if you've concerns on this topic as it is a joy to discuss) XD


    sadly atm the game does not allow for decreased armour penetration at longer ranges, Total war games continue to trend towards duming down gameplay.

    Of course this will likely be much less of a problem now as Ive reconstituted 'loose formation' into the game

  5. #5

    Default Re: Gameplay tester Feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by WakelessREX View Post
    this is not a bug, in fact what you see was the first step in the Empire AOR system, the newest update added Unit UI Icons with regional shields.
    I see!

    Quote Originally Posted by WakelessREX View Post
    About the Outriders, they have enough ammunition for 3 volleys but fire 6 rounds per volley yes. I was unable to download your example as my antivirus doesnt like that site. If youd like to send something to me dropbox works the best
    Absolutely, Im not used to uploading things but here's a drop-box link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/p3q0sd24cu...rider.rar?dl=0

    It's worth mentioning that I had troubles duplicating this in custom battles, but it happens (or happened with the previous release version) very frequently in campaign battles.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Gameplay tester Feedback

    I haven't found a good balance with firearm weapons either. Radious' mod essentially makes range units useless unless you make sure they live on the flanks. Vanilla is okay, but when you change the speed... they become extremely unbalanced in the game. Not that i necessarily disagree with that depiction. Firearm units SHOULD be that powerful really. Now I don't know warhammer lore, but if it's anything close to history then the basic simulation of what a gunline can do is well recreated. They are terrifying and what they don't kill they scare. Perhaps the answer lies there.

    Give them the terror ability while reducing their accuracy (but not damage or AP). Each of their fewer kills will have greater impact on moral which can be even more devestating or entirely fruitless depending on what units you are fighting. I.e. this would drastically change using guns versus zombies and other fearless units (which become the best ones to rush gun units all of a sudden!)

    Now I want to try this.
    Son of the Ancient Archaon, House of Siblesz

  7. #7

    Default Re: Gameplay tester Feedback

    @ Renown. Terror won't really work like that. The terror mechanic, works like an aura, with a radius around the unit (40m from memory) and checks enemy units morale for a threshold value (around 22 leadership in our mod) and if it fails then the units flees for 24 seconds. Because ranged units (especially gun powder) are fighting from long range, terror would rarely come into effect.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Gameplay tester Feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by zoommooz View Post
    @ Renown. Terror won't really work like that. The terror mechanic, works like an aura, with a radius around the unit (40m from memory) and checks enemy units morale for a threshold value (around 22 leadership in our mod) and if it fails then the units flees for 24 seconds. Because ranged units (especially gun powder) are fighting from long range, terror would rarely come into effect.
    Eh.

    Then perhaps adjusting moral overall in conjunction with moral boosts is the solution. So that units approaching gun lines alone are much more likely to break then entire armies marching.
    Son of the Ancient Archaon, House of Siblesz

  9. #9

    Default Re: Gameplay tester Feedback

    there is no good way to single out gun armed units to cause fear in the game. Any kind of adjustment like that would effect some other kind of unit or units altogether and really hamper the overall synergy. I feel my latest update has done a good job at getting firearms right. Give it a try

  10. #10
    Elric von Rabenfels's Avatar The Devil Inside
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    Default Re: Gameplay tester Feedback

    Ye, I had the same idea Renown, sadly you can't give the -projectiles- the fear effect.
    A shame... but do try out that new patch, ranged should feel in a better place now.
    - What can change the nature of a man?

  11. #11

    Icon1 Gameplay tester Feedback

    Hello here my first report, the bug I found and also some suggestions for improving the mod.

    I have played vanilla for a while and after that, I have played Radious mod a lot and still do, so I take those two experiences of gameplay as basis.

    I have played 3 differents faction with this mod : Vampire, Chaos And Dwarves.

    Difficulty : Very Hard
    Units Size : Huge
    Other mods used : Camera, cosmetics, traits and extra lvl.


    A/ Bugs and gameplay problems

    1) Zombie reinforcement get stuck.
    Zombie reinforcement get stuck halfway entering the battlefield and stop other troops from coming. Zombie are slow and in loose formation so they take too long to enter the battle, slowing the process a lot. In the concept, I totally agree that the way the zombie should be, but in term of gameplay that create some issue.

    2) Siege assault, impossible to assault doors.
    In siege battle, AI tend to send unit out to defend the gate like zombie or crossbowmen, that a very good idea but it create a major issue. The player can't attack the door, capture the door, enter by or even target the unit who are defending the door if this unit is not entirely exiting their castle. So a troop of zombie can totaly negate the entrance for a long time. In other total war game if the gate is open when enemy troops are nearby it won't close again, it is taken, but in this game not.

    3) The chaos marauder cavalary don't have their skirmish button.

    4) Public order not triggering revolts.
    With the dwarves, revolt don't trigger and the public order don't reach 100 when it should, it seem to happen at random. The message that say the revolt will trigger next turn appear again and gain without an actual revolt.

    5) Can't raise skeleton archer on campaign map, not included yet ?

    6) Units dissappear and reappear.
    Some Unit of marauder cavalerie controlled by the AI just dissappear from the battlefield and can't be targeted anymore, appear again and dissappear etc... so they are like hidden but with no forest or grass nearby. My force stop attacking them, they appear again and just ranged killed my troops. It happen also with Quarreller.

    7) Death's Heads unis are not unbreakable like it's say in the description of the unit card.


    B/ Suggestions

    1) Consider adding the loose formation button for Zombie and make them normal formation by default to help adress the issue mentionned above.

    2) Faster light infantry.
    The Chaos marauder units have light armor so they must be at least 30% to 50% faster than the chaos warriors and chosen units who wear heavy armor and are human living tank. Other units can be balance with the same basis, light infantry always faster, it is also reflected in campaign map movement.

    3) Chaos lord get too much growth.
    Almost 2 unit by turn when maxed out. Everything is slower with this mod, so it make sense to slow this too.

    4) More starting money for the Dwarves.
    Dwarves need more money at beginning, at least to maintain one full stack of unit (example : 13 infantery, 4 missile, 2 specials) from the start plus 2 agents and still have 1500 to 2000 gold for developement. I found myself facing multiple enemy with 3 stack each, add to that 3 waaaaaaagh and you see the challenge. All other faction can maintain at least 3 full stack early. Public order is very hard to maintain even without any grudge and if you can't defend yourself against enemy properly the grudge will get you. If you don't have enough money it force you to attack and pillage, in my opinion that more the Orcs gameplay style, in opposite, Dwarves camp, defend and build up their economy peacefully.

    5) Grudge tower can use a buff.

    In siege assault :
    One grudge tower can't destroy one wall, most of the rock go above or crash to the ground. The wall still have 10% hp left in optimal shooting condition. In vanilla you still have 5 to 6 ammo left after destoying a wall.

    In open battle scenario :
    All orc have loose formation and the grudge tower are too inacurate, when packed in melee you kill as much enemy as your own troops using it.

    6) Cavalry seem underpowered compared to infantry (undead and chaos tested)
    Not much of an impact even when charging from the rear or the side. Even with the change of today's patch. Chaos lancer have trouble dealing with dwarves miner, actually they must totally destroy them but not. They have more trouble with other dwarves infantry but do ok versus human infantry.

    In vanilla, cavalry is overpower, Radious also have a cavalry that a little too strong in my opinion especially when facing spearmen and charge defense troops, they destroy them anyway. And you must rely on missile troops to deal with it.

    Usually cavalry destroy infantry that have no counter like spear, shield or the mass given by heavy armor. Basically light sword infantry get destroy by a charge from the front. Spearmen with shield can take the hit from the front and get destroy other side. heavy infantry with shield can also take the hit from the front because of their mass. Every cavalry charge from behind mean the unit get destroy, if the spartans can't take it, you can't ! . Actually it was the case in all the Total War before, but I don't see this on Warhammer.

    7) Includind a link to your TWC page forum on steam is a good idea.


    C/ Requests

    1) Please find a way to reintegrate the miscast explosion at you originaly make it, my first play was with the vampire counts and it's was so fun to nuke my way through these nasty Dwarves by sacrificing one of my necromancer and sometimes to desintegrate half of my army in the process, but who care about zombie and skeleton anyway ? .

    2) Adding more troops to the pool mostly where they are missing to fill specific role, like skeleton archer was a really good addition. Vampire can use some artillery like trebuchet (one mod do that), Chaos can use some missile units like crossbow and rifle, for example radious made these fantastics chaos dwarves that permit Chaos to deals effectively with skirmisher cavalry and other missile troops.


    Conclusion :

    Dwarves have the most difficult starting condition, Chaos have the easiest and destroy all even from the start and can have a very huge and prowerful army early on (Turn 100 : 8 full stack with 5 elite army with a revenu of 2500). Vampire are Hard to play even more because of the miscast explosion is out of the game.


    Appreciation :

    Thanks for this great mod, I love the magic system and miscast (the first one), adding the loose formation and other formation button that was really missing are also really cool. The undead feel like actual undead, the chaos unit are badass except the cav . The beasts, monsters and dragons make a real difference on the battlefield now as it should !

    I'm looking forward for the new excellents changes and fonctions you will add.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Gameplay tester Feedback

    It is a bit of a misconception that people in heavy armor move much slower than those in light armor; certainly not 50% slower. If you were just to give someone the armor and tell them to deal with it they probably would be slower. But that isn't how things were done, certainly not by any competent people. No, people that used heavy armor trained in it, became used to wearing and fighting in it. This works as a kind of strength training and allows for the person in the armor to move about as they would normally, maybe a little slower but not that much. Another thing to keep in mind is, while this armor is heavy, the weight is distributed over the whole body of the person inside. This makes the weight much more manageable. The thing that is effected most is endurance. People in heavy armor tire more quickly than those not wearing it, and that can be modeled in the game I bet.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Gameplay tester Feedback

    Disarray is mostly correct. Having a 50% speed increase for any human type infatry over another is ridiculous anyway. You have to remember this is a realism mod.

    @ Kyl.
    * we already have up to level 60 max in my mod.

    * A1: ive not expiereanced this issue. Mind sending me a replay or getting some screenshot?

    * sieges are going to be completely reworked in the future. Gates arent that important when every unit can magic spawn a later.

    * A4: again can i get screenshots here?

    * A5: no

    * A6: I dont understand what you're saying?

    * A7: I will look into it.

    * B1: I dont see it as an issue.

    *B2: chaos mauraders are already some of the fastest human infantry in the game. Chaos warriors already some of the slowest. (Niether will be changed)

    *B3: I dont understand, can you be more specific?

    *B4/5: I will look into.

    *B6: the mod aims for realism (you dont quite hit on the complexity of cav charges) but siffice to say hollywood charges arent like real world equivalents. That said the dwarfs have a strong inherent counter to charges in the game data atm (will check with my lore consultant about this)

    *B7: good idea. Thank you.

    ** we actually got rid of the misscast explosion precisely because of that exploit (that is not how magic works in warhammer exaclty) look for changes into the future but probably never back to that sorry.

    ** this is a relism mod first and lore a close second. We Will not be includeing unloreful units as much as possible (skeleton archers is debateabley lore friendly) most of the rest of those suggestions are not lore friendly at least not atm. Maybe in the future they will get some things that are equivalent.

  14. #14

    Icon1 Re: Gameplay tester Feedback

    And here some shot for A4 and B3

    A4, the rebellion not triggering is the shot from Turn 6 to Turn 8.

    B3 about the overgrowth of the Chaos generals is the shot Lord 1 and lord 2.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Turn 8.jpg   Turn 7.jpg   Turn 6.jpg   Lord 1.jpg   Lord 2.jpg  


  15. #15

    Default Re: Gameplay tester Feedback

    legendary lords that doesn't have Flying Mounts ( with the major buff that comes with ) feels weak .. espacilly ' Grimgor '
    well am not in to the lore ... but i know that Grimgor is a total beast in 1v1.

    Thanks for the mod .. very Enjoyable

  16. #16

    Default Re: Gameplay tester Feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by acronodz View Post
    legendary lords that doesn't have Flying Mounts ( with the major buff that comes with ) feels weak .. espacilly ' Grimgor '
    well am not in to the lore ... but i know that Grimgor is a total beast in 1v1.

    Thanks for the mod .. very Enjoyable
    Grimgor did get a buff last update for the very reason you describe. However, as other lords get flying mounts he does get appreciably weaker. Do notice however, that the stronger the mount, the later it comes (with top level dragons coming at level 36). That is a long time for Grimgor to still be a nasty combatant.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Gameplay tester Feedback

    Really happy to see it's already been updated to be compatible with the new patch! I've been starting up a chaos campaign to do some testing, and currently I am getting a CTD when attempting to play out a battle against the Skaelings as Sigvald. I've not been able to try to reproduce the crash in any other save games, but I have transferred the save to another computer with the game also installed, and the crash also occurs on that machine.

    The crash occurs after end turn, when the enemy armies move to engage Sigvald. During the load screen to enter the battle, the game crashes repeatedly.

    I did notice that the enemy Skaeling army has Warhound units that are significantly larger in unit size than the ones I can recruit as chaos, and I am unsure if that unit can have something to do with the crash. I have only fought garrison Norsca up until now, and have not fought units with Warhounds in them. I have used both regular and poisoned warhounds in my own army without any issue up until now.

    Here is a download link to the save game: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8V...ew?usp=sharing

    Seeing as I am doing testing specifically for this mod, I am not using any other mods at all, not even camera mods or cosmetic mods.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Gameplay tester Feedback

    I have also been playing a chaos campaign today, I got to about turn 50 with Archaon and I never had such an issue, Norscan warhounds and the Skaelings were working fine in my game.

    I did Download and attempt to play your game and it did crash though im stumped to figure out why. It might be a vanilla bug? When did you start this game, before or after the last patch? save games can be notoriously incompatible after updates. If you try to avoid combat with teh skaelings for 1 turn and then re engage them does the crash persist?

  19. #19

    Default Re: Gameplay tester Feedback

    I started it up a few hours before I made the post, so there should be no issue with save game compatibility. It might be a vanilla bug, but the only reported CTD during battles seem to be tied to drivers, and seeing as it's definitely not a driver issue, my money would be on it being linked with the mod somehow. I'll be able to do some more testing tomorrow, so I'll get back to you then to see if it's a presistent crash tied to one of the armies, or something specific to the one battle.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Gameplay tester Feedback

    Sorry for the double post, I can not find out for the life of me how to edit my post.

    I have done some fairly extensive testing, and from what I have found it seems to be a bug with the Skaeling faction leader Felman Ingersson. Here is a link to the current save-game: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8V...ew?usp=sharing


    If you end the turn, you will be attacked by two Skaeling armies. Attempting to fight on the battlemap will cause a crash, like in the previous save game.
    At first I thought it might have something to do with the region, or reinforcements seeing as the army is being attacked by two armies - however, if you abandon the entire army except for Sigvald, the Skaeling elect to attack with Leif Nylunds army. This allows you to load up the battlemap just fine.
    If you then reload the game and abandon everything except for the two units of chaos warriors, you will be attacked only by Felman Ingerssons army. This will cause the game to crash.

    I did very extensive testing and removed all variables such as followers/banners, and the crash only occurs when fighting the faction leaders army.


    Hopefully this will be helpful in some way to finding and fixing the bug.

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