Kingdom of Jerusalem and Cyprus Units (In Progress)

[Syphax Numid]

Well, could you remove the icon images of Maria, because these jpeg pictures are looking bloody shitttttt. It's also not very correct, cause these icon paintings were produced in the orthodox regions like Russia. After the Iconoclasts in Constantinopolis in many time periodes such paintings were forbidden and the Crusaders used no icones for their flags... You could add some Crosses from all these Military Orders in the Levantine.

[Beregond]

I think some shield and coat textures need more work, some are too bright, some too 'flat', but overall I really like the progress

[+Marius+]

I would get rid of the capes too. Capes were more of a on the road travel blanket you can wrap yourself in rather than a piece of decoration you would wear to battle. Unless the literature specifies the use of capes in battle, its a Hollywood trend that needs to die. There are some sources that say people can use capes as a defense mechanism, but practically capes would be more useful in camp to sleep on rather than torn, dirtied, and bloodied from battle.

Well capes were present on the battlefield, we have depictions of it since the early medieval period.

However, I used the wrong word, I meant caped, as in having something over the shoulders, as in a full garb and not just the torso surcoat.



Also, capes do not really hinder you because in real combat you do not spin around enough for a cape to swindle you.

Heck, capes were a very popular trope in post medieval fencing;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVaIvsw3NUw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoWggMyXr7A

[LinusLinothorax]

That is plated mail;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plated_mail


Apart from the mirror plate, other plates are more keen to brigandines and lamellar than what would be called "plate" armor.

Italians used plate armor, even knights on Rhodes/Malta where temperatures were similar to that of Persia and Anatolia.

Fair enough. Btw, I once played Darthmod for Empire and it also included an overhaul for the Order of Malta, and the Maltese bodyguard still wore plate armour to some extend (Mostly plates on its upper arms). Do you think plate armour survived longer there, maybe due to their continous conflicts with Barbaresks and other rather lighty armed Muslim forces plus because of ideaological reasons (Knights and stuff)?

[+Marius+]

Do you think plate armour survived longer there, maybe due to their continous conflicts with Barbaresks and other rather lighty armed Muslim forces plus because of ideaological reasons (Knights and stuff)?

Depends on the criteria, even though full suits of armor were on the decline on the continent, you can still find mid 17th century full suits riddled with dents from bullets and melee weapon strikes;

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...42e8a7b643.jpg


Though, they probably did retain their armor tradition for a while longer than the continent, for instance, Grandmaster Ferdinand von Hompesch zu Bolheim had a full suit of armor and he died years after George Washington.

So yes, seeing this on Malta would not be surprising even in the late 17th century;

http://www.malta.com/media/en/attrac...n-valletta.jpg


In my opinion, their armor designs reached their peak in the late 16th century, when stuff like this was handed out to even low tier servicemen;

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...38918074ae.jpg

[Gongo80]

armour were used till XVII century, expecially for cavarly. (dragons had a heavy armour, but without legs)

nice pic of malta museum, it's great a was there a year ago

[The_Fawn_Rescuer]

First crack at some High-era units

Hospitaller Knights (mounted and dismounted)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Crusader Knights (High Era)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Close-up of the detail on the Officer's Breastplates

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[warman222]

Holy Smokes dude! That's quite an eyeful! Really like what you've been doing with the units, and some we could probably retrofit elsewhere to. The biggest gripe as pointed out is the colors are all over the place in terms of saturation and brightness. Particularly with the saturation. I understand you wanna reflect the vibrancy but I think you've overdone it, check out the knightly retinue units from England or France for a sense of how to make the colors work better. That's my only issue dude, the chest plate stuff is a nice touch.

[Slytacular]

Those hospitaller knights look so bamf.

[Alejandro Sanchez]

It's also not very correct, cause these icon paintings were produced in the orthodox regions like Russia. After the Iconoclasts in Constantinopolis in many time periodes such paintings were forbidden and the Crusaders used no icones for their flags...

Are you seriously? BTW iconoclasts was excommunicate from the Church in 787 before the Crusades. Also Italian painting schools had a strong influence from the Byzantine painting school.

And finally the quote from the letter of King Alfonso VIII de Castilla to Pope Innocent III about the Battle of Las Navas de Tolosa:

Then we realized that the battle becomes quite unbearable for them, rushed to the attack with the cavalry, carrying in front the Cross of the Lord and our banner with the image of the Virgin Mary and her Son, imposed on our sign. Since we have already decided to die for the faith of Christ, once we saw the shame caused to the Cross of Christ and the image of the Theotokos, when the Saracens pelted them with stones and arrows, we broke through their ranks with their vast array of warriors, although Saracens bravely resisted and stood a solid wall around their lord.

[finix]

My personal opinion is that captains and bannermens should wear these colors

[IMG][/IMG]


I'm not sure the colors of the film are historically accurate, but these colors I have engraved in my mind as the image of Jerusalem

[IMG][/IMG]

[Lucem Mundum]

My personal opinion is that captains and bannermens should wear these colors

Do you know whats even better? just give all their units a standardized colour like the rest of the factions.

btw plz use this as the faction leader's model

[finix]

Do you know whats even better? just give all their units a standardized colour like the rest of the factions

I do not think it would be better just have a problem with these neon blue and yellow. The colors are light blue, gold and white. Everything else looks good, I do not want to lose the idea that each of these warriors come from different parts of Europe

[Teutonic]

I also prefer KoJ not to have one overwhelming colour scheme. But not because they came from different parts of Europe. KoJ should be varied for the same reason why the other Feudal armies were varied in colour- the army was a collection of various different lords' retinues: e.g. Jaffa+Ascalon, Ibelin, Galilee, Sidon, and Royal. Individual knights also had their own heraldry.

I love the light blue, white, and gold colours from the above post and they could be used for the Royal bodyguard unit/General. And, maybe, some kind of infantry guard unit too.

[Gongo80]

wonderful.
hope this mod will not be released in august or my trip in normandy-brittany wil be cancelled

[Lucem Mundum]

It seems like no one likes my idea :/

[Slytacular]

No, it's just those surcoats would probably be better suited for the Principality of Antioch.

[The_Fawn_Rescuer]

I do not think it would be better just have a problem with these neon blue and yellow. The colors are light blue, gold and white. Everything else looks good, I do not want to lose the idea that each of these warriors come from different parts of Europe

Looking at it now, I definitely agree that the yellow horse barding looks like radioactive sludge. I'll work on the yellows. Not sure what your issue is with the blue, though.

Lucem Mundum It seems like no one likes my idea :/

That's not a bad model. I like the detail on the surcoat. Who made it? I don't want to use something in the mod without someone's permission.

[Kjertesvein]

Close-up of the detail on the Officer's Breastplates

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Ah, the details.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Excuse me for going of on a tangent here, but it reminds me of some of the beautiful high-end soft kits I've seen.

Frontal of Epiphany, ~mid 15th century. Silk, velvet, gold, linen, silver, etc.
http://i.imgur.com/4sk8ccs.png?1

Dalmatic, the set of liturgical vestments of Canon Bernat Despujol. 1400/1500. Mainly gold, silver and red silk.
http://i.imgur.com/B468IOl.png?1

Frontal of the Annunciation. 1400/1500. Damask, silk, gold, taffeta, silver and sequins.
http://i.imgur.com/rhx7zBg.png?1

Here is a reproduction of Herjolfsnes G63 gown made by a historical reenactor by the name of Ian Laspina. Slight alteration was to add baggy sleves, which also were used in conjunction with military armour of the time. Take note that this was most notable in HRE, as seen in a few examples here, but it was used all over Europe. Video of this particular gown is here. The textile is reproduced from a 14th century textile from Gdansk, thanks to Sartor ...historie šitá na míru.
http://i.imgur.com/D2IPnQl.jpg?1 http://i.imgur.com/KBZgDo4.jpg?1

Another reproduction of the same period. Beautiful attention to detail and it reflects the high end of fabric used.
http://i.imgur.com/WxJtnWd.jpg?1

Predella, church of Santa Maria, Rubió. 1350/1375. As I zoom in, the attention to artistic detail on Jesus cloth, and all these fine soft kits that I've shown, mirror what you managed to do with that breast plate and I adore it. Unfortunately, I think Capwell noted, most armour of with this style have been desecrated by Victorian collectors, who wanted their collection to show mirrors, rather than original paint... And so they polished it away. It makes me sad.
http://i.imgur.com/8h1YMHU.png?1

And then the colours

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The Crusader Marksmen unit, which I assume isn't nobility due to it's choice of armament, has a blue-ish colour which I would argue is too expensive for the class of unit to both purchase but also maintain. A more earthly type colour would reflect his stature in society. Here are 3 pictures of very intense colour for nobility. All that said, ironically I'm also colourblind, slight colour deficiency, so please apply your own wisdom and correct me if you feel I've erred in my judgement.
http://i.imgur.com/x1pOuNM.jpg http://i.imgur.com/xufDA5Y.png?1 http://i.imgur.com/qeTREf6.jpg

In general, reserve vermilion, and ultramarine-, verdigis green or yellow orpiment for the upper echelon of knights. Also notably more vibrant as we move into high and later period of the mod. It particularly takes off around mid to late 14th century in my opinion. Try to aim for Venetian red, yellow ochre and burnt umber- due to the cost involved were generally lower and therefor appropriate for commoners. Pigments in could also fade due to continues exposure to the environment, such as the sun, which means a commoner wouldn't be able to maintain it the same way a noble can afford to. You must remember that a knight would have a lot more resources to maintain his wealth when on campaign compared to the rank and file.

To think all Hollywood has to offer us, from ancient times to 18th century, are black leather jerkins. Everywhere. Excuse me while I jump out of a window (jk). Have a nice day.

Sources
Herjolfsnes G63
Museu Episcopal de Vic
BNF Nouvelle acquisition latine 3093
La Cotte Simple, scholar of medieval clothing Tasha Kelly.
bodark43 explanation on use of colors

~Wille

[Ltd.]

That's not a bad model. I like the detail on the surcoat. Who made it? I don't want to use something in the mod without someone's permission.

That model has already been rigged, see the teutonic early bodyguard unit. I'll use this specific KOJ texture and send the thing your way, if you like.
That model and texture is from the M&B mod called crusader way of expiation, or CWE if you take a look in the mod' s files.