Orlando shooting, gun free zone.

[Phier]

What really struck me was how did one guy manage to kill 50+ people in a state like Florida, which is generally gun friendly. This would be a powerful statement that the ability to carry a gun doesn't help in these situations, assuming some of them were armed.

But I made an assumption. The night club was a gun free zone.

http://www.ammoland.com/2016/06/flor...#axzz4BNgSss8a

Experience Pulse, a world of fun and fantasy. Orlando’s hottest gay bar located in the heart of downtown. Step inside Pulse and savor the taste of three unique worlds: The Lounge, Ultra Bar and The Adonis Room. Since 2004, Pulse has been serving up unmatched live entertainment and tantalizing liquid libations, courtesy of our renowned staff and entertainers. Check out our upcoming performances and join us for an exciting and unforgettable night of fun and fantasy. It is clear that Florida law prohibits people from legally carrying guns into Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose.
Bars are one of a long list of places that Florida establishes as gun free zones. From Florida Statutes leg.state.fl.us:

(12)(a) A license issued under this section does not authorize any person to openly carry a handgun or carry a concealed weapon or firearm into:
1. Any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05;
2. Any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station;
3. Any detention facility, prison, or jail;
4. Any courthouse;
5.  Any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his or her courtroom;
6. Any polling place;
7. Any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district;
8. Any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof;
9. Any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms;
10. Any elementary or secondary school facility or administration building;
11. Any career center;
12. Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose;
13. Any college or university facility unless the licensee is a registered student, employee, or faculty member of such college or university and the weapon is a stun gun or nonlethal electric weapon or device designed solely for defensive purposes and the weapon does not fire a dart or projectile;
14. The inside of the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport, provided that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, which firearm is encased for shipment for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft; or
15. Any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law.
(b)  A person licensed under this section shall not be prohibited from carrying or storing a firearm in a vehicle for lawful purposes.

Now on the surface such rules would "make sense", alcohol and firearms are a bad mix, though there are several states where this isn't a law and they don't have a "Wild West" movie going on there.


This is just another example of good intentions gone awry and continues the list of terrorists attacks in the US in gun free zones.

[PointOfViewGun]

What really struck me was how did one guy manage to kill 50+ people in a state like Florida, which is generally gun friendly. This would be a powerful statement that the ability to carry a gun doesn't help in these situations, assuming some of them were armed.
But I made an assumption. The night club was a gun free zone.
http://www.ammoland.com/2016/06/flor...#axzz4BNgSss8a
Now on the surface such rules would "make sense", alcohol and firearms are a bad mix, though there are several states where this isn't a law and they don't have a "Wild West" movie going on there.
This is just another example of good intentions gone awry and continues the list of terrorists attacks in the US in gun free zones.
[/COLOR][/LEFT]

I take it you're also assuming that where a night club is not a gun-free zone many people do bring their gun to such places? Do you also point fingers at the idea of having a gun-free zone when a plane is hijacked?

[The spartan]

Thank you for twisting this tragedy into your own political agenda.

[IronBrig4]

Most people won't bring their guns with them to the dance floor. This ain't Miami Vice.

[Condottiere 40K]

If you're prepared to die, fighting your way in is almost as good as getting there and opening fire on the unsuspecting.

[HannibalExMachina]

blaming the victim 101. reaching for a new low, are we? oc, shootings only happen in gun free zones, what a farce.

[B. W.]

The guy was a registered Democrat and had known links to ISIS; quite a combustible combination. His parents, who are from Afghanistan, and who raised him to be a devout Muslim are claiming it had nothing to do with religion.

I've always said that if you took a handful of each of the Democrats bedrock constituencies and put them on an island they would be killing each other before a day was done. Some people say that it is brilliant how the Democrats convince so many disparate groups that they are representing them and that they are just stringing all the other groups along. I really don't think it is because the Democrats are brilliant, but rather the fact that so many people are stupid enough to believe the lies that seem to be endless.

President Obama will obviously use this incident as an excuse to push for gun control and leave out the obvious fact that it was a registered Democrat radical Muslim killing gays in the name of ISIS. ISIS, by the way, said a few days ago that it would be striking in Florida.

[Rick]

ISIS, by the way, said a few days ago that it would be striking in Florida.

I'm curious to know where you may have read, or heard that DASH would be striking Florida.

As an aside, for those living in Orlando I would recommend you do not drink the water. The toxicity levels are close to those in the water in Flint Michigan.

[Enros]

This is just another example of good intentions gone awry and continues the list of terrorists attacks in the US in gun free zones.

So I post a a graph from a scientific article that examines statistics in all countries. In reply, you post a single anecdote. How does that stand up to scrutiny?

[IronBrig4]

What I'm wondering is how he snuck a rifle past the bouncers. Most popular clubs have vigorous screening procedures.

[Påsan]

I worked as a bouncer for roughly four years while i was at uni. Guns has no place in a club. The majority at clubs are drunk irrational mofos.

Dealing with coked up idiots trying to kill me or each other is bad enough, we dont need to arm them.

What I'm wondering is how he snuck a rifle past the bouncers. Most popular clubs have vigorous screening procedures

Depends entierly on the place and what kind of security they had. The security usually matches the customers. In any case he probably started at the entrance with the bouncers and worked his way in.

[Condottiere 40K]

One guy who worked as security/bouncer told me that you don't carry a gun, since it will only escalate a problem, and there's a good chance that that problem will try and grab it.

[ABH2]

As opposed to, say, a cop?

[Menelik_I]

Donald Trump Said it best: For a Psycho, a gun free zone is Bait.

I think that whoever makes an area gun-free, should be held liable for any damage that would happen to people due to desarming to comply.

In short: If you make your business gun-free, better have a SWAT Team or the Mossad at hand to protect your Patrons or get sued into oblivion ... Call the DUTY TO PROTECT ACT

[Condottiere 40K]

Most people don't want to open carry.

[ABH2]

Why? SWAT seems to just be good for no-knock raids at 4 AM. When there's a live shooting, they set up a perimeter and wait.

It would be nice of the hysterical discussion of these sort of events didn't end up getting reduced to banning all guns/banning all Muslims.

[Condottiere 40K]

Very few people want to outright ban guns; quite a few want to limit Muslim migration.

[sumskilz]

I worked as a bouncer for roughly four years while i was at uni. Guns has no place in a club. The majority at clubs are drunk irrational mofos.

And what about the staff? The law appears to ban anyone on the premises from carrying.

[snuggans]

reports are there was an offduty cop working security who exchanged gunfire with the shooter when he was entering, and was injured

the club is gun free but there was security and an attempt at defense which still failed, partly because the shooter outgunned him with the sort of legally bought weapon that republicans want to keep pushing for

what is so special about this thread that deserves its own place? merge with the main thread already

[ABH2]

Do you even know anything about the AR-15 he used? Because I'm going to guess you don't know what a semi-automatic weapon is, what burst is, what automatic actually is. I love the description of it as an 'assault rifle.' A semi-automatic AR-15 doesn't fire faster than a handgun. Nor do you know details of the exchange of fire. There's no evidence to support the claim that the cop lost because he was outgunned aka the shooter could put led out faster. An AR-15 uses 5.56 ammo which isn't all that powerful. The cop's handgun may have had a larger round and was semi-automatic on its own with the added bonus of being concealable. If you banned AR-15's, there would be almost no measurable drop in gun crime in this country because nearly all of it is done with handguns (the majority of which are obtained illegally).

Even if this AR-15 was automatic, that's not some advantage in a firefight. Military aren't trained to turn their weapon on burst and to go crazy. They are taught to first and foremost to aim and shoot. Not spray and pray. Burst on a M-4/16 is there if you want to use the thing as an area weapon.

It's entirely possible the cop was caught off guard and simply didn't have the aim to take out the shooter who had the drop on him.

If your knowledge of guns comes from MSNBC/Mother Jones and Hollywood, you probably don't know enough to talk about this period.