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Thread: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

  1. #141

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    @Krampus
    I tried comparing them to similar units found in the same area. The end result was that I felt their armor rating was too low.
    Mail should have a higher armor rating than leather/padded armor. Leather/padding offers decent protection against cuts, but it doesn't do great against thrusts. On the other hand, mail basically makes you immune to cuts (in the area it covers, ofc) and depending on the size of the rings (among other factors), offers great protection against thrusts.

    I have no idea why they're comparably less armored than the Thracian colonists, that one is up to the Eb team. Since they do have mail, they are wealthier than Bataroi and Galatian raiders. After their armor upgrade, they fare much better. They get more armor and helmets.
    Re the armor values, I agree. All things equal (which they appear to be) the Colonists' mail should offer more protection than the Bataroi's leather/linen cuirasses.

    Re the armor upgrades, the raiders and Bataroi both have them as well.

  2. #142

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Galatian Colonists can support a point more armour.
    It began on seven hills - a historical house-ruled Romani AAR
    Heirs to Lysimachos - a semi-historical Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR
    Philetairos' Gift - a second attempt at an Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  3. #143

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    By the way, are the Umbro-Picenians and Ligurian spearmen really intended to be skirmishers? If so, I am a really happy man.

  4. #144

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    By the way, are the Umbro-Picenians and Ligurian spearmen really intended to be skirmishers? If so, I am a really happy man.
    Yes, they're supposed to be skirmishers.
    It began on seven hills - a historical house-ruled Romani AAR
    Heirs to Lysimachos - a semi-historical Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR
    Philetairos' Gift - a second attempt at an Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  5. #145

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Very nice to hear. That area needed some skirmishers with staying power.

  6. #146

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    Very nice to hear. That area needed some skirmishers with staying power.
    There are more Italic light units planned, as well.
    It began on seven hills - a historical house-ruled Romani AAR
    Heirs to Lysimachos - a semi-historical Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR
    Philetairos' Gift - a second attempt at an Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  7. #147

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Do tell...

  8. #148

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Just as a matter of consistency to assuage my inner OCD, could the naming of the Galatikoi Katoikoi and Katoikoi Thraikes be made consistent? Either or is fine, unless it's actually more accurate grammatically to have them in different orders.

  9. #149

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    This one has been bothering me for a while and it may be more about descriptions than historical accuracy or anything, but why do the Greek Cataphracts who 'were at least as good as their Parthoi enemy' seem to be significantly worse troops than their Parthoi enemy? (primary weapon, defense and cost are all worse).

  10. #150

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunydii View Post
    This one has been bothering me for a while and it may be more about descriptions than historical accuracy or anything, but why do the Greek Cataphracts who 'were at least as good as their Parthoi enemy' seem to be significantly worse troops than their Parthoi enemy? (primary weapon, defense and cost are all worse).
    Because they're not as good as the originators.
    It began on seven hills - a historical house-ruled Romani AAR
    Heirs to Lysimachos - a semi-historical Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR
    Philetairos' Gift - a second attempt at an Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  11. #151

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    Because they're not as good as the originators.
    Fair enough, would have been my guess. So the description read something like 'Historically, Hellenistic Kataphraktoi were possibly/almost/nearly as good as their Parthoi enemy...'?

  12. #152
    Cohors_Evocata's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunydii View Post
    Fair enough, would have been my guess. So the description read something like 'Historically, Hellenistic Kataphraktoi were possibly/almost/nearly as good as their Parthoi enemy...'?
    I'll let you in on a little secret: some of the descriptions are reused from EB I for lack of time for writing new ones.
    I tend to edit my posts once or several times after writing and uploading them. Please keep this in mind when reading a recent post of mine. Also, should someone, for some unimaginable reason, wish to rep me, please add your username in the process, so I can at least know whom to be grateful towards.

    My thanks in advance.

  13. #153

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    I have noticed the new indohellenic cavalry has ap melee lances, is that intended? I thought all cavalry already lost their ap lances.

    The khuveshavagan (iranian kinsmen cavalry) has an armour value of 7, same as the hetairoi, yet they are more armoured (no exposed legs or arms). The bodyguard version of this unit has 8 armor rating.

    In addition the khuveshavagan are significantly slower than hetairoi, but their horses aren't really more armored (around equal), and the only difference with the riders themselves is they're wearing cheires and trousers. Are their horses supposed to be slower by design?

    Lastly, shouldn't the unit be named Huvaka? If i'm not mistaken, that's how the late achaemenid kinsmen were called, while the name khuveshavagan comes from the parthians.

  14. #154

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cohors_Evocata View Post
    I'll let you in on a little secret: some of the descriptions are reused from EB I for lack of time for writing new ones.
    Totally understandable, I only brought it up cos some of the discussions from months ago brought up descriptions as 'evidence' for units not having the stats to match their historical proficiency.

  15. #155

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    New one - Belgae swordsmen.

    Their armor rating is too high.
    With only one helmet and no body armor, an armor rating of 3 is too much.

  16. #156

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    New one - Belgae swordsmen.

    Their armor rating is too high.
    With only one helmet and no body armor, an armor rating of 3 is too much.
    I agree with that. Especially if you compare them to the Batoroi (most have helmets, and some have even body armour, but armour 3) or the Cladivetai (all helmets, some body armour, armour 4): half of the Belgae have helmets, and they just wear tunics and capes.

    The Gargokladioi get an armour value of 2, even if they have the same number of helmets as the Belgae, if I remember correctly.

  17. #157

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    I know they've been talked about already, but I really feel that most used Thracian units are undervalued.

    Look at Raskumezenai. Compared to Lonchophoroi Hippeis, they're slightly superior...better ranged weapon (16 with 3 ammo vs. 12 with 2 ammo), better climate and ground bonuses. Only thing Lonchophoroi Hippeis have is one point in armour instead of defense skill. Cost...1750 vs. 1938. Raskumezenai in fact cost only little more than similar style, but significantly inferior, Sabellian Cavalry.

    While I can't really find proper close comparison unit for Katoikoi Thrakes and Peltenai, as their AP swords are rather rare feature in their supposed role, but...Katoikoi can easily chop through Polybian Principes, who fulfill virtually identical role and would be expected to face each other, while being 300 mnai cheaper. That's just one example.

    From experience, the Thracian units are extremely effective for their cost. Since 2.2, they've been most effective troops in my hellenistic campaigns.

  18. #158

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Camel archers have the same range (150m) as other Arabian archer units. Is that intentional, given how HAs usually have inferior range?

  19. #159

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    Camel archers have the same range (150m) as other Arabian archer units. Is that intentional, given how HAs usually have inferior range?
    They are a better missile shooting platform than horses, worse for melee and charges though.


  20. #160

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Hi,

    Parashim Afriqim has a armor value of 4, same has Eqvites Romani (camillan) and Hippeis.

    Parashim Afriqim:
    - All helmets;
    - Mostly linothorax, some Breastplates;
    - Both legs with greaves.

    Eqvites Romani:
    - All Helmets;
    - Mixture of "no armor", Linothorax, breastplate, Italian breastplate;
    - No greaves.

    Hippeis:
    - All Helmets;
    - Mixture of "no armor", Linothorax, breastplate, Italian breastplate;
    - Mixture of no greaves, one greave and two leg greaves.

    Even if the last two unit have more breastplates, the Hippeis and Parashim should have an advantage over the Eqvites Romani, For example the equites sabelli has a similar type of armor to the Eqvites Romani (no linothorax but some leg greaves) and has an armor rating of 3.

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