Page 5 of 13 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 LastLast
Results 81 to 100 of 255

Thread: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

  1. #81

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    What kind of shield do they have? Thureos?
    I recommend a pugio rather than a spear, because in close quarters combat, a dagger will serve you better than a spear.

    Rad, 2016.

  2. #82

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    What kind of shield do they have? Thureos?
    I don't think so, in their description it says they use a large leather covered hexagonal wooden shield. I'm curious because even elite gauls who are supposed to be the best equipped only have a shield value of 6. I know it says that they're a placeholder unit which will be changed in the future, is that the explanation?

    On a different note, is it just me or are spearmen far more effective then swordsmen? It seems like when the swords try to do anything they get interrupted by a quick jab from a spear.

  3. #83

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    What kind of shield do they have? Thureos?
    The early medium spearmen are equipped with large oval or subrectagular wooden shields (7) while the late ones are equipped hexagonal ones (8).


    I don't quite get why these guys such high shield values comparable to the rich mediterranean factions' heavy infantry.

  4. #84

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    You won't have seen it yet, but we've done a review of shields, taking thickness into account as well as coverage. Pretty much all of them have changed values at the larger end.
    It began on seven hills - a historical house-ruled Romani AAR
    Heirs to Lysimachos - a semi-historical Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR
    Philetairos' Gift - a second attempt at an Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  5. #85

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    The standard for the thureos shield is 6... let's wait and see what the change brings.
    I recommend a pugio rather than a spear, because in close quarters combat, a dagger will serve you better than a spear.

    Rad, 2016.

  6. #86

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    You won't have seen it yet, but we've done a review of shields, taking thickness into account as well as coverage. Pretty much all of them have changed values at the larger end.
    Could you please list the thickness types-levels?
    I am guessing it will go from wicker to metal, wanna know what's in between.
    Last edited by Rad; August 01, 2016 at 11:17 AM.
    I recommend a pugio rather than a spear, because in close quarters combat, a dagger will serve you better than a spear.

    Rad, 2016.

  7. #87

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Now a regular-sized thureos is 5, aspis is 6, big thureos is 6. So Thureophoroi are 4/9/5 (18) and Hoplitai are 7/5/6 (18).
    It began on seven hills - a historical house-ruled Romani AAR
    Heirs to Lysimachos - a semi-historical Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR
    Philetairos' Gift - a second attempt at an Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  8. #88

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    I think aspis and scutum users get a defense penalty too, right? To represent the unwieldy nature of using that big of a shield in active defense.

  9. #89

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    Now a regular-sized thureos is 5, aspis is 6, big thureos is 6. So Thureophoroi are 4/9/5 (18) and Hoplitai are 7/5/6 (18).
    How significant are the revised shield values in regards to the battle speed and kill rate of the mod? Will units with high attack or armor piercing weapons be able to kill as many men in a unit as possible?

  10. #90

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    I might have caught two more subjects for balancing... will update soon.
    I recommend a pugio rather than a spear, because in close quarters combat, a dagger will serve you better than a spear.

    Rad, 2016.

  11. #91

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tactics Mayers View Post
    How significant are the revised shield values in regards to the battle speed and kill rate of the mod? Will units with high attack or armor piercing weapons be able to kill as many men in a unit as possible?
    Not significant; they're tweaks to the relative values of aspis and thureos.
    It began on seven hills - a historical house-ruled Romani AAR
    Heirs to Lysimachos - a semi-historical Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR
    Philetairos' Gift - a second attempt at an Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  12. #92

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    What was the decision behind giving west celt cavalry and the (somewhat needless) mercenary version a defense skill of 3?
    They seem to have been quite capable.

    Camillian hastati have a shield rating of 7, but visually, their shields are about the size of the thureos, and in some cases, smaller.
    Last edited by Rad; August 13, 2016 at 02:02 AM.
    I recommend a pugio rather than a spear, because in close quarters combat, a dagger will serve you better than a spear.

    Rad, 2016.

  13. #93
    Cohors_Evocata's Avatar Ordinarius
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    On the crossroads
    Posts
    750

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    What was the decision behind giving west celt cavalry and the (somewhat needless) mercenary version a defense skill of 3?
    They seem to have been quite capable.

    Camillian hastati have a shield rating of 7, but visually, their shields are about the size of the thureos, and in some cases, smaller.
    I believe we've already amended the defense skill of the mercenaries to 6 to differentiate them as professionals from the regular variety.

    Dunno about the hastati.
    I tend to edit my posts once or several times after writing and uploading them. Please keep this in mind when reading a recent post of mine. Also, should someone, for some unimaginable reason, wish to rep me, please add your username in the process, so I can at least know whom to be grateful towards.

    My thanks in advance.

  14. #94

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Yep, Kurepos are now "professional-grade Celtic mercenary cavalry" and have stats appropriate to that role. Leuce Epos, Eponados and Komnetsamoi have all been adjusted and synchronised with each other (they're slightly worse on their secondary attack) as a result.

    Camillian Hastati now have 6, which is the default for the early scutum.
    It began on seven hills - a historical house-ruled Romani AAR
    Heirs to Lysimachos - a semi-historical Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR
    Philetairos' Gift - a second attempt at an Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  15. #95

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    I've been doing a lot of custom battles over the past few days and it seems like whenever I have a sword unit and a spear unit of similar skill and equipment fight each other, the swords suffer a clear defeat. Is this intentional?

  16. #96

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim the Enchanter View Post
    I've been doing a lot of custom battles over the past few days and it seems like whenever I have a sword unit and a spear unit of similar skill and equipment fight each other, the swords suffer a clear defeat. Is this intentional?
    No that's not really intentional. We've been aware of it for a while now, and the recent changes show things are a bit more balanced between those two.

  17. #97

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Genghis Skahn View Post
    No that's not really intentional. We've been aware of it for a while now, and the recent changes show things are a bit more balanced between those two.
    Specifically, we've been working on their relative animation speeds, which is what is accounting for the gulf in performance.
    It began on seven hills - a historical house-ruled Romani AAR
    Heirs to Lysimachos - a semi-historical Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR
    Philetairos' Gift - a second attempt at an Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  18. #98

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Many little stat change proposals:

    Retainer infantry should be regulated for defense skill, if EBII is planning to consider them elite elite, they all should have 12, if not 9
    those affected: boii retainers, celtic retainers, Ambaktoi, Agrokunoi)

    Gldgmtk should have shield value 3 and a defense skill of 9 (elite cavalry like donno eporedoi)

    Maure cavalry and infantry should have a defense skill of 6 (they look more like semi professional troops rather than levy to me but 3 is fine if they're levy)

    Maure cavalry should have a shield value of 3.

    Mepaqed Numidim should have a shield value of 3

    Merkabim Garamantim should have defense skill of 9, same as Esseda

    Merkabim Garamantim should have a shield value of 4 (lower than Esseda but not so little as 2 both of the javeliners on the chariot are shielded)

    Parasim Garamantim should have a defense skill of 6 or 9 (if they're garmantes nobles)

    Thraikioi Mezenai should have a shield value of 4

    Hoplita should have a defense skill of 6 (unless it's 5 deliberately because of formation effect)

    Spartiatai Hoplitai should have a defense skill of 12 (elite, similar to boii retainers)

    Somatophylakes Strategou should have a defense skill of 12 (elite, similar to pritanoi bodyguard or sweboz bodyguard infantry)

    Misthophoroi Hoplitai should have a defense skill of 9 (professional/mercenary grade like peltanai)


    Kurepos should have a defense skill of 9 (professional/mercenary)

    Epilektoi Hoplitai should have a defense skill of 12 (elite, like other infantry bodyguards)

    Erínamesh ana-Arabim should have a shield value of 7 (aspis) or 8, I never encountered a value of 9 that they have)

    Arezages Gustoi should have a defense skill of 12 (elite)

    Redoi should have a defense skill of 3 (levy grade similar to Hippakontistai no?)

    Kinnetoi Kallaekoi should have a defense skill of 6 (semi professional unless they are 9 on purpose)

    Caetrata Iuventus should have a defense skill of 6 (semi professional no?)

    [email protected] Balearim should have a defense skill of 9 (professional grade)

    Hyperaspistai should have a defense skill of 12 (elite infantry)

    Skuda Azdata should have a defense skill of 9 (noble cavalry)

    Kareus should have a defense skill of 3 (if they're levy) or 6 (which is better making them similar to celtic spearmen)

    Kauntikas should have a shield value of 5 (in my book lower than thuros but 6 if it's same as thuros but not 7 in any case no?)

    Peltastai Indohellenikoi should be 9 (if they are professional grade which I believe they are like peltanai)

    Uazali should have a shield value of 6 (big theuros grade)

    Mudunup i Kappodakiya should have a defense skill of 6 (mounted versions of Nezagdar i Kappodakiya, semi professional)

    Rompaianai should get a defense skill of 6 (elite but no shield) maybe 9 (because they're infantry)

    Sakaya Aznya Ashwabara should get a defense skill of 9

    Akhyar Hagaran should get a defense skill of 12 (elite)

    Khamis should get a defense skill of 12 (elite)

    Magones should get a defense skill of 9 (they may be poorly equipped but they are nobles) or 6 (if you wanna differ them from other noble cavalry)

    Eqoreda very same story as Magones

    Markakoi should have a defense skill of 9 (elite heavy cavalry, shielded)

    Some notes: I am sincerely afraid to touch already tough as rock roman units, I am afraid to touch phalanx. I treated spear infantry similar to sword infantry when it comes to defense skill but ignore those changes if that shouldn't be the case. Hope these help.

  19. #99

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Just some quick notes; hoplites aren't the same as other infantry; their big shields and tight formations constrain their defensive skill. Swordsmen get a better defensive skill than spearmen, because theirs is a more active style.

    There's also been a review of shield values, in which I've also tweaked some defensive skill values. Also, only elite cavalry (mostly just bodyguards) get a 9, others cap at 6. Exceptions to that are made for famous horse-people.

    I'll look in detail later.
    It began on seven hills - a historical house-ruled Romani AAR
    Heirs to Lysimachos - a semi-historical Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR
    Philetairos' Gift - a second attempt at an Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  20. #100

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Will club infantry be finally be useful as anti-armor infantry or at least flanking infantry? Axemen at least have javelins that allow them to weaken their enemies in preparation for a melee battle. The only advantage they have besides their numbers is that they don't have javelins messing up their charge and as such they quite effective in charge attacks.

Page 5 of 13 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •