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Thread: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

  1. #21

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunydii View Post
    Well i was comparing the 120 vs the 120 units. so the elites > spartans > lakedaimonians. it makes some sense, I just would have presumed the aristocratic spatans would have been an elite unit in themselves rather than equivalent to generic hoplites.

    Well they are almost elite like. They have the same attack, defence skill and charge value than the elites been also disciplined and hardy. So basically thats elite training. They have quite better armor than standard hoplites 9 compared to 6, but behind the elite 12. That show they are rich but behind the elite units whose equipment might have been directly provided instead of bought by themselves and get the best of the best (dont know this is just a guess). Shield is the same for everybody because is basically the same. Then they have 1 point less of morale than the elites and 1 more than the standard hoplites. Together with discplined that makes them a lot more unlikelly to flee that standard but a bit more than the elites. This isnt the clasical Sparta anyway. If you read their description I think their actual stats make quite sense.

    I didnt expected them to be better than anything. That would have only made sense one or two centuries ago.

    I dont understand the 120 unit part, they are also a 120 unit (in large)

    The equivalence its because that supposed to be the standard Spartan citizien hoplite thats better than the standard citizien of other poleis. But I thin kis pretty good. Its a hoplite with lots of steroids


    We will either find a way, or make one.

  2. #22

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Well im fine with it really, as i said just curious. re 120 vs 120 I meant that i was comparing the spartans to the elites rather than comparing them to the standard hoplites. It had occurred to me the spartans where 'hoplites +' and that their 'real' elite was represented by generic elite hoplites, but then i got confused that the spartan FMs are accompanied by spartans not generic elites. I could have asked the question that way round, but i thought it would be a bit convoluted

  3. #23

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    I guess that the Spartan FM bodyguards are there to make them more Spartan like?

  4. #24

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    I guess that the Spartan FM bodyguards are there to make them more Spartan like?
    They were, but they won't be any longer. There are issues with not using a proper bodyguard unit for FMs.
    It began on seven hills - a historical house-ruled Romani AAR
    Heirs to Lysimachos - a semi-historical Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR
    Philetairos' Gift - a second attempt at an Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  5. #25

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Yh, namely the huge freakin upkeep

  6. #26

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    Yh, namely the huge freakin upkeep
    No, a lot worse. Non refreshing numbers. After a pair of battles your FM is quite unprotected xD


    We will either find a way, or make one.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Aww yeah, forgot about that one.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Yep, specially as retraining the msot scarce unit for you is harsh xD


    We will either find a way, or make one.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    I donīt understand how units are assigned AP weapons, and i think this is a big deal because of how powerful that stat is.

    I understand some units who carry axes or maces get AP weapons, also thracians with romphaia. However why Hyperaspistai gets AP weapons and not Peltastai Makedones? Why Hipppakontistai gets ap weapon (and 7 attack)? Why Baktrian somatophylakes get ap secondary but not baktrioi hippeis? Why some elite cavalry like hetairoi, lydians, thesalians etc. gets ap secondary but others like median cavalry do not?

    Units with ap weapon outperform regular ones by a lot, so i think that stat should only be given with good justification - i like axe units having that for example, it balances their low attack.

  10. #30

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    In virtually every single instance you've highlighted there, they have a kopis, not a straight sword. Or their mixture of weapons includes more kopides than straight ones.
    It began on seven hills - a historical house-ruled Romani AAR
    Heirs to Lysimachos - a semi-historical Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR
    Philetairos' Gift - a second attempt at an Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  11. #31

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Just noticed that the Armenian and Hellenistic cataphracts have a defense skill of 6, while the Parthian catas have a defense skill of 9. Intended?

  12. #32

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Not sure but I think it was to represent their higher skill and horsemanship tradition. There was a discussion about Cataphract compariton and I actually think some changes ensued. Parthian stays the stronger one though, as it should


    We will either find a way, or make one.

  13. #33

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    I agree that Parthians should be better cataphracts, especially compared to Hellenistic ones, but I am not sure if defense skill is the way to go. Currently, there are four levels of defense skill 3-6-9-12. I don't think the difference was that drastic. Slightly manipulating attack values of those 3 units would do a better job representing differences in quality. Or on a strategic level, availability - bigger unit pools and replenisment rates.
    Last edited by Rad; June 12, 2016 at 04:04 AM.

  14. #34

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Theres such a big difference? Didnt knew that. Yeah I dont think he differences should be that big specially when other factions already pay with the fairly reduced availabilty


    We will either find a way, or make one.

  15. #35

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Putting them in different (currently existing) defense skill lvls is too drastic in my opinion.

  16. #36

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    New comparison

    Jewish spearmen vs Hemithorakitai

    Jewish spearmen have an armor rating of 3, while Hemithorakitai have an armor rating of 4.
    It's odd since both units are armored the same. Fully helmeted, and 1 in 4 has linothorax.
    I recommend a pugio rather than a spear, because in close quarters combat, a dagger will serve you better than a spear.

    Rad, 2016.

  17. #37

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Hi Rad. Do you think that phalanxes generaly are bit underpowered? I am aware of hammer and anvil tactics, and other supporting things. But i think they are bit too much underpowered. I did a lot of testing, im not saying this just like that. Still, i would like to hear your opinion. Others are also welcome to comment it.

  18. #38

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    I think I read somewhere that they will be changed somewhat in 2.2b. Waiting for it, then I'll test it again and let you know.

    Honestly, you can do well with the Deuteroi, Illyrian or any other levy pikemen. They just need to hold the door, err, I mean line, for long enough for your flanking units to do their magic.
    I recommend a pugio rather than a spear, because in close quarters combat, a dagger will serve you better than a spear.

    Rad, 2016.

  19. #39

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Didnt knew that they will be changed for 2.2b . Thanks for info. Hodor

  20. #40

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Now that you've mentioned it, I gotta say that one of my personal favorites is to set loose pikemen on light troops in a city square. They have nowhere to run muahahahahahaha!
    I recommend a pugio rather than a spear, because in close quarters combat, a dagger will serve you better than a spear.

    Rad, 2016.

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