Page 1 of 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 227

Thread: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

  1. #1

    Default Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    I'm starting this thread to compare units' visual appearance with their stats... could be just for fun, but it could be useful.

    Ligurian swordsmen vs Celtic light swordsmen
    (garkokladioi or something)

    Ligurians have an attack rating of 9, Celts have a 10. I don't know why that is, but nvm it now, as this thread is about visual depictions of equipment.

    Ligurians have an armor rating of 3, Celts have a 2. This is what I perceive as wrong.

    Ligurians - all models have helmets.
    Celts - half (or less) have helmets.

    Ligurians - half (or less) have body armor.
    Celts - none have body armor.

    All other stats seem to be equal.

    In my opinion, the 1 difference in armor rating in favor of Ligurians is too little. The difference in the number of helmets alone would amount for that, at least. If you add body armor into the equation, it should be 2.

    So, in the next patch, Ligurians armor rating as 4 , Celts as 2?

    If you want to compare units, feel free to do it here.
    Last edited by Rad; June 06, 2016 at 08:05 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Next one - Hoplitai Haploi vs Carthaginian Citizen Phalanx

    Attack, defense skill and shield are the same.

    HH - armor rating 3
    CCP - armor rating 4

    HH - 3/5 have helmets, no body armor
    CCP - all have helmets, 2/5 have linothorax body armor

    Again, the difference in armor rating could be a bit bigger in favor of CCP. So, CCP 5, HH 3?

    If I get the time, I'll work out a formula for armor rating and suggest it. Comparing similar units to each other won't work in the long run.
    Last edited by Rad; June 06, 2016 at 10:17 AM.

  3. #3
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Gatorade, is it in you?
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    12,121

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    This thread is radical.

    "Celts - none have body armor."

    Wait, what? Cool idea for a thread (I've always pondered about this), but this here is an absolute statement that's inherently untrue. You've seen the donno eporedoi and argoi and units like that, right? Those guys are heavy duty. When you max them out with armor upgrades they are the heaviest looking troops in the game aside from Hellenistic and Eastern cataphracts.

  4. #4
    alex33's Avatar Ordinarius
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Vindobona, Pannonia
    Posts
    728

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    I think shields are also important for armour. Thureos shields are quite big so they'll protect much of your body
    There is nothing impossible to him who will try.



  5. #5
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Gatorade, is it in you?
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    12,121

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by alex33 View Post
    I think shields are also important for armour. Thureos shields are quite big so they'll protect much of your body
    That's a different value, though, as far as the EDU file is concerned.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    This thread is radical.

    "Celts - none have body armor."

    Wait, what? Cool idea for a thread (I've always pondered about this), but this here is an absolute statement that's inherently untrue. You've seen the donno eporedoi and argoi and units like that, right? Those guys are heavy duty. When you max them out with armor upgrades they are the heaviest looking troops in the game aside from Hellenistic and Eastern cataphracts.
    The very specific Celts I was referring to don't have body armor. I hate you for making me state that

  7. #7

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by alex33 View Post
    I think shields are also important for armour. Thureos shields are quite big so they'll protect much of your body
    Shields have a separate defense rating from armor. So does defense skill.

    This thread is about visual appearance and armor. If unit A has armor X, it should have armor rating X as a result. That sort of thing.

  8. #8
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Gatorade, is it in you?
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    12,121

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    The very specific Celts I was referring to don't have body armor. I hate you for making me state that


    I didn't realize you were talking about the variation of soldiers within a single unit. Makes sense now.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    I thought you did it on purpose just to make me type a reply xD

  10. #10

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    If I get the time, I'll work out a formula for armor rating and suggest it. Comparing similar units to each other won't work in the long run.
    We already have a formula to calculate armour values; sometimes it rounds up or down.

    In any case, I've adjusted those two you observed in the patch.
    It began on seven hills - a historical house-ruled Romani AAR
    Heirs to Lysimachos - a semi-historical Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR
    Philetairos' Gift - a second attempt at an Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  11. #11

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Now I feel like I tricked you into it, even though the difference is really there and completely justified lol
    On one hand, I want to help out. On the other, I hate seeing my direct influence.

    I'll work out mine and post it for review. Maybe it works, maybe it doesnt.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Man is not bad. If you have a valid point its good to see it actually taking place and effect

    Keep it up!


    We will either find a way, or make one.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    We do listen! The Carthaginian Citizen Militia is best thought of as similarly skilled to the Haploi (men who don't train often - thus the spear attack and defensive skill), but much, much richer. Which is why they have better equipment (and this higher armour value).
    It began on seven hills - a historical house-ruled Romani AAR
    Heirs to Lysimachos - a semi-historical Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR
    Philetairos' Gift - a second attempt at an Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  14. #14

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    We do listen! The Carthaginian Citizen Militia is best thought of as similarly skilled to the Haploi (men who don't train often - thus the spear attack and defensive skill), but much, much richer. Which is why they have better equipment (and this higher armour value).
    Btw, will they still be recruitable with the last Poeni reform?

  15. #15

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    Btw, will they still be recruitable with the last Poeni reform?
    Yes, they are not reform-adjusted. However, they always remain in very small numbers, and only in Africa.
    It began on seven hills - a historical house-ruled Romani AAR
    Heirs to Lysimachos - a semi-historical Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR
    Philetairos' Gift - a second attempt at an Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  16. #16

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Apologies if this isnt quite the right place for this, but theres a couple of unit questions id been wondering about.

    First, for Epeiros their guard cav costs more than then the thessalians, but they seem to have identical stats.

    Second (this is basically just curiosity), it looks like the spartan units are slightly worse than their generic counterparts - this just strikes me as a bit odd, i would have presumed it would be the other way around.

    Third i presume the elite thorakitai reflect historical usage? for instance makedonia, look like they lose their hypaspistai but unlike the other factions dont get the elite thorakitai to replace them. similarly pontos loses the hyperaspistai and doesnt get the elite thorakitai either. Did a point in history come where both factions just stopped feeling the need to fill that niche?

    Many thanks

  17. #17

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Spartans are actually quite better than generic hoplite. Just slightly worse than elite hoplites (and cheaper too). I think that may be intended as Sparta can also produce itself the elite hoplites. The refresh times are the same though...guess to represent their scarcity. But a spartan army repalcing standard hoplites with spartan ones really is gonna be a hell lot stronger.


    We will either find a way, or make one.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Maybe it's intentional and part of the formula, the Late Libyan Infantry and the Blastophoenicians have the same armor rating, with the first having linothorax all around and the second only partially. Is it because of the leg guards?

    Also, do they appear at the same time?

  19. #19

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jervaj View Post
    Spartans are actually quite better than generic hoplite. Just slightly worse than elite hoplites (and cheaper too). I think that may be intended as Sparta can also produce itself the elite hoplites. The refresh times are the same though...guess to represent their scarcity. But a spartan army repalcing standard hoplites with spartan ones really is gonna be a hell lot stronger.
    Well i was comparing the 120 vs the 120 units. so the elites > spartans > lakedaimonians. it makes some sense, I just would have presumed the aristocratic spatans would have been an elite unit in themselves rather than equivalent to generic hoplites.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    They're much better than generic hoplites. They are slightly worse than generic elite hoplites, and I am fine with that.

Page 1 of 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •