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Thread: Count Mannfred von Carstein of Stirland?

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    Jokern's Avatar Mowbray of Nottingham
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    Default Count Mannfred von Carstein of Stirland?

    This is something that Mannfred repeatedly refers to in the campaign: him being the true Elector Count of Stirland. This seems such a huge part of the Vampire Counts lore, yet I can't remember any reference to Mannfred ever ruling Stirland or being related to the ruling house of the province. Did Vlad, or even Konrad, rule Stirland in the past? I would greatly appreciate the help.

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    Viva Espana!'s Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Count Mannfred von Carstein of Stirland?

    Might be CA . The lore in the game is surprisingly better than the real-life history from some of their other titles, but it's not perfect. For example, Karl-Franz refers to himself as part of the "House of Franz." And the last Empire chapter is the "Age of Franz." This is ridiculous. "Franz" is part of his first name. His dynasty is "von Holswig-Schliestein." CA got a lot of right, but there's still some weird mistakes.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Count Mannfred von Carstein of Stirland?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jokern View Post
    This is something that Mannfred repeatedly refers to in the campaign: him being the true Elector Count of Stirland. This seems such a huge part of the Vampire Counts lore, yet I can't remember any reference to Mannfred ever ruling Stirland or being related to the ruling house of the province. Did Vlad, or even Konrad, rule Stirland in the past? I would greatly appreciate the help.
    Vlad did conquer Stirland before his death. My guess for why Mannfred mentions it so frequently is because only an Elector is able to become Emperor which is what he'd like to do.

    But yeah the Franz stuff really grinds my gears.

  4. #4
    Karnil Vark Khaitan's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Count Mannfred von Carstein of Stirland?

    Quote Originally Posted by illathid View Post
    Vlad did conquer Stirland before his death. My guess for why Mannfred mentions it so frequently is because only an Elector is able to become Emperor which is what he'd like to do.
    Nahhh Sylvania is part of the stirland province, it has just for the most of the time enjoyed its own autonomy, as nobody had the will nor the power to properly have the place under control.
    Becuase Stirland is a very poor province and the dead can barely rest in peace in that place.

    So it would not suprise me if Mannfred talk about he is suppose to be the rightful count of stirland, to give him a bit claim on the emperor title.

    And I hate to say this, but in the end times (eeeeeewwwwwwwww!!!), sigmar made Sylvania its own province......

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    Default Re: Count Mannfred von Carstein of Stirland?

    There are theories both in favour, and against, Sylvania being part of the province of Stirland or an independent province with its own count and laws. If you read the story of Vlad Von Carstein, you will notice that he married the daughter of Mad Count Otto, ruler of those lands. There was no mention of Otto being a vassal of the count of Stirland, or any relations between the two provinces.

    Nevertheless, there are many other arguments which do not accept the idea of an independent Sylvania. One of them has to do with the Runefangs, the magical blades gifted to each of Sigmar's allies and later the symbol of power of the counts. In total, there are 12 of these blades, two belonging to provinces now dissapeared (Drakwald and Solland). There is no blade for the counts of Sylvania. Furthermore, Martin of Stirland, after defeating Manfred in the battle of Hel Fenn, decided to "annex" all the lands of Sylvania into his province.

    In the end though, Manfred is Manfred. Maybe he just wants the county of Stirland to get revenge on Martin for his previous defeat.

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    Karnil Vark Khaitan's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Count Mannfred von Carstein of Stirland?

    There are Elector Counts and Counts, it is the Electors who rule the lands of Empire, Counts are just part of the nobility.

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    Quote Originally Posted by riskymonk View Post
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    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Count Mannfred von Carstein of Stirland?

    Technically Sylvania is part of Stirland and under the Elector Count of Stirland, however due to Stirland's decentralized rule, Sylvania is semi-independence.
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    Påsan's Avatar Hva i helvete?
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    Default Re: Count Mannfred von Carstein of Stirland?

    Its totally within Mannfreds character to make up some bs claim and push it as a casus belli (Hey just like me every time I play CK2). After all Vampires are parodies of nobility so they want a guise of legitimacy as opposed to Chaos who just want to take what they want.

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    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Count Mannfred von Carstein of Stirland?

    In the End Times () Vlad did become the Elector Count of Sylvania.
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Count Mannfred von Carstein of Stirland?

    Really didn't give the Empire much of choice when he forced them to do that, though.

    Though Sigmar seemed to support it so not much can be argued against it. (Better him than Mannfred, anyway.)

    @Pasan, to be fair, it's hard to argue with a vampire's claims of legitimacy when:

    1. They've been around longer than your record/history books and personally met important people of many lands when your family tree wasn't even a sapling.

    2. Can spring across the room and rip your head off before you can even blink.

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    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Count Mannfred von Carstein of Stirland?

    Undead in WHF has a complicated stance; they try to act like they are a separated faction besides Chaos and Order, but in the end it turns out they can be corrupted easily just like mortals (yes, Chaos Undead show up in End Times; besides there are Undeads simply fighting besides mortals, ignoring Nagash's command).
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..

  12. #12

    Default Re: Count Mannfred von Carstein of Stirland?

    Indeed, though they are resistant to chaos as their souls are fused to their physical form, undead have proven in the past to be susceptible if enough chaos magic is present. (Not really surprising as chaos' power is to completely warp reality, time and space with the immaterium plane/realm of chaos. So nothing's safe from corruption.)

    The Gotrek and Felix series has a instance in Praag that saw a powerful vampire have a tough time controlling his feral side as the amount of chaos energy was influencing him. Another example would be the dwarf spirits in the first novels that were being tormented by warp stone being near their corpses.

    So yeah, the vampire stance of "if everything's undead then nothing can fall to chaos" is nonsense.

    Edit: The Lichemaster and Krell are the most interesting of this as Heinrich Kemmler had to pray to chaos to get Krell in the first place and later turned to chaos while Krell, a former chaos champion, sided with Nagash.
    Last edited by Baron of Hyrule; January 31, 2017 at 11:12 PM.

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