Russian government officials deeply upset as Ukraine beat Russia in the campest competition imaginable (Eurovision 2016)

[Hetman Khmelnytsky]

I'm glad my country won in this year's Eurovision, and Jamala's great for raising awareness about the fate of the Crimean Tatars in 1944 to the world. Well of course Russia's response is just as usual, so I would expect more harsh rhetoric. With the world's conflicts heating up, I could see Eurovision becoming a political tool in the near future.

[Twido]

In recent years Russia has invented a narrative that they are hard done by and unfairly discriminated against by the rest of the world. Most sensible people can dismiss this narrative because they can see the bad things that Russia has done bad things and the discrimination has justification. Nevertheless, the Russian media has maintained this stance even if it is baseless. Although the Eurovision song contest is completely unimportant, at last Russia has something where they can say that they actually were treated unfairly and most sensible people have to agree.

It is the giving of something legitimate to complain about that irritates me; this feedings something solid into their invented narrative that had so far looked absurd.

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

Well the betting sides did say it was a sure win for Russia, with a 1 to 1 cash.

[Condottiere 40K]

I didn't watch, but reading and listening to people who are experienced in the event, they kept mentioning that the Russians didn't just hire an international A Team to write the song, make the costumes and choreograph the dancing, they got the A plus team composed mostly of Swedes and quasi Swedes to make it a sure thing.

[Adar]

The BBC link accurately described the core of the issue, which is a typical case of a propaganda move, (in that instance, from the Russian government), with contradictory results, due to the different principles and perspectives between the Russian people and the western Europeans. From my experience (and the BBC article agrees with that), the eastern Europeans tend to care about international competitions, such as Eurovision a bit too much. Consequently, the authorities exploit these feelings, by either gloating and taking pride of occasional successes, thus increasing their popularity by linking the fortunate event to themselves, or vehemently protesting, in cases of the more frequent failures, trying to convince their voters that they take "national matters" seriously and passionately defend their country's interests. Of course, such initiatives, like government officials complaining about music competitions, are justifiably viewed by many people out of Russia as childish and ridiculous, but the authorities don't care much, since their target group is the Russian masses, not them. A post of mine, concerning some different examples, about the same subject, made a while ago:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post14732812

I am probably one of the few people who respect Russian propaganda despite not being a Putinista. Russia broadcast propaganda with a broad spectrum of aims and the campy stuff that we laugh at is just as you say mainly targeting the local population and the most sad parts of his internet fans. But broadcasting Russia as strong and respected is also a major target of Russia to compensate for the fact that they in reality run an economy the size of Italy and an extreme reliance on raw materials rather than high technology. Winning the Eurovision would in this more sophisticated part of the propaganda be valuable to prove a "normalization" of relations.

Now it instead makes them look pathetic.

The thing is, in the UK we have always criticised the ESO for its political scoring. Despite this the winning song is usually one of the better ones. This year they seemed to take it to a new level; even if you support the Ukraine (as I do), you have to admit that their song broke the rules about not having political songs in the contest. Not only that but the song was one of the worse ones in the final. It would be hypocritical of me not to condemn it now since I have criticised the contest so much in the past.

I don't normally watch this, but I have a Polish friend staying with me at the moment. I think it is much more popular in more eastern European countries and isn't considered quite so camp there.

Altough i support Crimean Tatars and i'm happy that a song with a few Turkish sentences won, (the song's reprise is in Turkish) i think Jamala's song is political, so it can not be a part of Eurovision. What will happen next year if Azeris&Armenians made songs about Karabag, Greeks about how Germany maltreats them and Germans about refugees?

I agree with both of you, it is obvious that the song was political given the context of the situation. The problem for the EBU was that technically it was a historical song and historical songs have previously not been prohibited in the contest. So stopping the song would have required the organizers to interpret the situation rather than hide behind a technicality like they did now.

But personally I think it would have been both brave and reasonable to make a statement along the lines of "Historical songs are traditionally not prohibited by the EBU. But the parallels between historical persecution of Crimean Tartars and current actions by Russia on the Crimean peninsula mean that this song must be interpreted as political in conflict with the rules of Eurovision. This is further supported by the complain filed by the Russian delegation which support that they also see the parallels between current persecution and the historical actions referenced in the song."

[Basil II the B.S]

The funny thing about the globalist crowd:
-claim it wasn't politicized, Russia is just butthurt
-then go to Ukraine and celebrate, telling them ''see Europe loves you! It's a great political message! Hang on and we'll win''. Then you have NATO glorifying the winner.

So it's one or the other.
You can't have both, you want to go to Ukraine and brag about it? Cool, then Russia is right to call you cheater.

[Condottiere 40K]

Double whammy; triple, if you consider the fact that it actually won.

[Adar]

The funny thing about the globalist crowd:
-claim it wasn't politicized, Russia is just butthurt
-then go to Ukraine and celebrate, telling them ''see Europe loves you! It's a great political message! Hang on and we'll win''. Then you have NATO glorifying the winner.

So it's one or the other.
You can't have both, you want to go to Ukraine and brag about it? Cool, then Russia is right to call you cheater.

Where exactly did you find enough people to form a crowd that try to claim that this was not a politicized win?

Lets quote Jamal herself on the matter.

Jamala, whose real name is Susana Jamaladynova, isherself a Crimean Tatar who has not been home since shortly after Russia’s 2014 annexation of the peninsula. Her parents and extended family still live there.
“[If I win,] it will mean that modern European people are not indifferent, and are ready to hear about the pain of other people and are ready to sympathise,” Jamala told the Guardian by phone from the Swedish capital shortly before the contest.
Referring to her song’s lyrics, she said: “Of course it’s about 2014 as well. These two years have added so much sadness to my life. Imagine – you’re a creative person, a singer, but you can’t go home for two years. You see your grandfather on Skype, who is 90 years old and ill, but you can’t visit him. What am I supposed to do: just sing nice songs and forget about it? Of course I can’t do that.”

[Basil II the B.S]

Then the contest was rigged and Russia is right to protest.
The West looks very dishonest to politicize a song contest and pathetic. Which anyway perfectly reflects the whole Ukraine issue. The US attacks Russia, the braindead herd of Europe follows, Russia replies. So we are here to wait Russia's reply for this turn.

[YuriVII]

Was rigged, but don't care because Eurovision is anyways...even before this. To expect for Russia to win in the campest contest in the world was wishful thinking anyways.

[Condottiere 40K]

A bare chested President riding a bear, would seem sufficient evidence.

[Adar]

Then the contest was rigged and Russia is right to protest.
The West looks very dishonest to politicize a song contest and pathetic. Which anyway perfectly reflects the whole Ukraine issue. The US attacks Russia, the braindead herd of Europe follows, Russia replies. So we are here to wait Russia's reply for this turn.

So you could not find the crowd you were ranting about?

But nice comeback, "But USA suck too!" is really an excellent argument. Especially in a thread about a competition that USA really could not care less about and where it for the first time ever was broadcast in 2016 (in a small niche channel for LGBT people).

Was rigged, but don't care because Eurovision is anyways...even before this. To expect for Russia to win in the campest contest in the world was wishful thinking anyways.

But you are right, there is no way that a country adoring this man could ever do something as "campy" as winning the Eurovision.


... Like Russia did in 2008

[Garbarsardar]

Hi all, I remind you all that the use of the term "gay" as a derogatory term, is frowned upon.

[Basil II the B.S]

So you could not find the crowd you were ranting about?

Comments on articles on the topic.

But nice comeback, "But USA suck too!" is really an excellent argument. Especially in a thread about a competition that USA really could not care less about and where it for the first time ever was broadcast in 2016 (in a small niche channel for LGBT people).

What you fail to realize is that once again Russia is right to call ''conspiracy''. Because if NATO and the globalist elite can rig a song contest to fit their agenda, then they certainly won't stop there.

The funny thing about all of this is that their propaganda does not match the wish of the people:
-popular vote in Eurovision
Ukraine gave 12 points to Russia
Russia gave 10 to Ukraine

They certainly do not hate each other as you and the globalist elite would love to present.

Oh and let's see what other people say about Ukraine being forced in the EU, what did the Netherlands referendum say about it? A resounding no.

[Dromikaites]

Out of curiosity, do you know how cheap it actually is to rig the popular vote?

Russia giving 10 points to Ukraine for that song should have opened your eyes about what was actually going on. Hint: in 2015 in Moldova the winner of the local selection contest for Eurovision was caught using 200 SIM cards to vote for himself.

In that part of the world rigging televoting is a sport practiced by a wide selection of people ranging from hackers, organized crime (illegal betting on the results) to governmental troll farms and oligarchs.

[Adar]

Comments on articles on the topic.

And I assume this "crowd" is hiding on some kind of invisible news services that no one can see and which cannot be linked to provide a source?

What you fail to realize is that once again Russia is right to call ''conspiracy''. Because if NATO and the globalist elite can rig a song contest to fit their agenda, then they certainly won't stop there.

The funny thing about all of this is that their propaganda does not match the wish of the people:
-popular vote in Eurovision
Ukraine gave 12 points to Russia
Russia gave 10 to Ukraine

They certainly do not hate each other as you and the globalist elite would love to present.

Oh and let's see what other people say about Ukraine being forced in the EU, what did the Netherlands referendum say about it? A resounding no.

Generally I am the one arguing that Ukraine does not hate Russia and that the war is waged by the Russian government as they try to maintain their position of international strength. But it is nice to see that you finally accept that Ukraine is not some kind of neo-nazi anti Russian conspiracy. But you really need to brush up on the definition of "conspiracy", because the voting process is explained here and you can also see which juries gave low points to Russia here. So I guess we can file the Eurovision conspiracy together with the "Afghanistan invasion conspiracy" and the "angry Internet people come out as Putinistas when bad things happen to Russia" conspiracy.

[Basil II the B.S]

And I assume this "crowd" is hiding on some kind of invisible news services that no one can see and which cannot be linked to provide a source?

http://euromaidanpress.com/2016/05/1...urovision-win/
Psh.

Generally I am the one arguing that Ukraine does not hate Russia and that the war is waged by the Russian government as they try to maintain their position of international strength. But it is nice to see that you finally accept that Ukraine is not some kind of neo-nazi anti Russian conspiracy. But you really need to brush up on the definition of "conspiracy", because the voting process is explained here and you can also see which juries gave low points to Russia here. So I guess we can file the Eurovision conspiracy together with the "Afghanistan invasion conspiracy" and the "angry Internet people come out as Putinistas when bad things happen to Russia" conspiracy.

It sticks as conspiracy because we don't have evidence the voting was rigged, though it's blatantly obvious.

And the argument isn't really ''but the US suck too''. It's not the US, nor Ukraine, nor certainly Russia. It's the Euro-Atlantic elite who is responsible for the majority of today's Europe problems and this farce.

[Gallus]

Russia is taking it a bit too seriously but you have to admit that the winning song was a joke. You could clearly hear that a lot of the vocals were actually playback. I don't really care about the lyrics because I didn't understnd them anyway, but playback does bother me.

[Adar]

http://euromaidanpress.com/2016/05/1...urovision-win/
Psh.

Yes statements such as:

Another Crimean Twitter user hidden under the handle translated from Russian as “Crimean Raccoons” wrote: “The hope of an IMMINENT return of Crimea has appeared… Thank you, Jamala.”

and

This tweet from another user in Sevastopol says: “The heart believed, but mind resisted! We won! Jamala is the best! Today is the Day of Commemoration of the Victims of Political Repressions, how full of symbolism! Glory to Jamala!! Glory to the Crimean Tatar people! Glory to Ukraine!”

Clearly support your position that the Majdan "Globalists" claimed Jamals entry to not be political at all...

It sticks as conspiracy because we don't have evidence the voting was rigged, though it's blatantly obvious.

And the argument isn't really ''but the US suck too''. It's not the US, nor Ukraine, nor certainly Russia. It's the Euro-Atlantic elite who is responsible for the majority of today's Europe problems and this farce.

Europes problems are mainly caused by poor internal political management. Obviously this poor political management is caused by the fact that European politicians are obsessed with manipulating the results of the Eurovision to reflect badly on Russia. Normally this is where we start bringing out pictures of people wearing tinfoil hats. But this is a Eurovision related thread so lets go for something a bit more... Campy.

Russia is taking it a bit too seriously but you have to admit that the winning song was a joke. You could clearly hear that a lot of the vocals were actually playback. I don't really care about the lyrics because I didn't understnd them anyway, but playback does bother me.

All vocals must be performed live but it is not uncommon that supporting vocalists are hidden at the back of the stage.

The winning song is terrible but that is per the standards expected from the competition and not exceptional for this year. We can for example look at the lyrics of the second and third placed entries in this year as an example of this. The Australian entry that came second repeats the phrase "And it beats to the sound of silence." every 15th second of the song (on average) and the Russian entry which came on third place manage to call out "only one" 15 times in less than 3 minutes. This all underlines my point that the only justifiable reasons to care about this competition is if you can enjoy the tackiness of it or if you happen to an authoritarian ruler with a desperate need of some good PR as your national living standards are going down the drain and your pecs are no longer good enough to pose bare chested.

[Roboute Guilliman]

I never understood this contest. A bunch of mediocre singers come together and perform on TV, hoping that their compatriots vote their mediocre song,(not because its good but because they have the same passport or have some ethnic similarities) and win this prize of mediocrity. Two months from now, the singers will be forgotten, their songs will be forgotten and everybody, who even watched this contest for being the best mediocre singer, will go back to listen their songs on their ipod worth having on a playlist.
Okay, I remember one singer, that austrian man who wants to be a woman with a beard. Cant remember his mediocre song tough.

I am even going to go further. The reason we have TV, is because of these shows. Mediocre live shows, reality tv and so on. It started all with this. I really hate the Eurovision.