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Thread: Iran holds its third Holocaust cartoon contest

  1. #61

    Default Re: Iran holds its third Holocaust cartoon contest

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdaddy1204 View Post
    Iran is a strange beast, politically. The country is in a period of transition. One of the problems is that the government and the judiciary are separate; although the moderates have recently won sweeping victories in the elections, and the current president is a reformer in favour of improving relations with the west, the judiciary and some of the clergy still contains legacy hardliner elements, which are mainly the older generation. The younger generation is rather more secular, modern and pro-western.

    Thus the country is not out of the woods yet, as stories like this show: http://edition.cnn.com/2016/05/11/mi...ranian-arrest/

    Nevertheless, I have Iranian expatriate friends who are generally much more upbeat about the country. One of them was extremely pessimistic about Iran when I met him in 2010. He hated the leadership and was thoroughly depressed about the state of the country, which at the time was ruled by Ahmadinejad. Since then, the same freind is now much more upbeat about the country. He recently visited and he says that things are changing dramatically for the better. He said it takes time, but things are getting much, much better. Everything I have learned on the subject leads me to believe him. Rouhani stood for election on the promise of reform, improving relations with the outside world, and modernising. His landslide victory at the polls proves that Iranian society, while not perfect, is certainly moving in the right direction.
    Rouhani, like previous Iranian presidents, is a puppet and figure-head ... not really sure why anyone would use him to measure progress in the country. usually when somebody does this it lets me know that they don't know anything about Iranian politics, because they're just retelling the same angle that Khamenei wants people to walk away with

    when people say "Rouhani did something", it's "Khamenei and the Iranian clergy allowed Rouhani to do something" or came up with the idea themselves
    Last edited by snuggans; May 18, 2016 at 05:40 PM.

  2. #62
    Harith's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Iran holds its third Holocaust cartoon contest

    Quote Originally Posted by snuggans View Post
    Rouhani, like previous Iranian presidents, is a puppet and figure-head ... not really sure why anyone would use him to measure progress in the country.
    Not entirely true. He does have control over the administration of the country. He recently increased the funding for the Iranian armed forces and decreased it for the IRGC in an attempt to wrestle the control out of the IRGC.

    The ME remains to be ruled by the military (except in the case of the gulf states where they have none). The Supreme Leader and the IRGC complement each other, and they are equally dependent on one another.

    I think Rouhani has made great breakthroughs and hopefully will continue to do so after the election of the next Supreme Leader who is posed to be a moderate and a Rouhani ally. I don't like Iran that much, but the people in Iran have a degree of representation and that can be very important.

  3. #63
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Re: Iran holds its third Holocaust cartoon contest

    What bothers me is that international hate relies on historical myths.
    Paradox 1: Jews were SAVED by Muslim Arabs that allowed them to freely worship their God (infact the SAME God) and travel and create buisness in the Islamic world with no restriction.
    Paradox 2: While in the time frame of 7th to 13th centuries their were 8 Jewish percecutions in Germany alone and many more in the western Christian europe n no one ever talks about them exeot the last one in the 20th century!
    Paradox 3: How many Muslims know that Prophet Mohamad considered Mulsims and Christians as "His Brothers"?
    Paradox 4: Western Europe always focuses on the Jewish Holocaust but its seams that choses to forget other ones that it created.
    Where is an apology to Native Americans that were conquered and mass murdered (40 millions in less than a century)?
    Where is an apology of the Holocaust in south Spain when Granada fell when douzen of thousands of Jews and Mulsims executed after forced to embrace Christianity?
    Where is an apology of 17 milion dead of the Soviet Union unarmed killed by Germany?
    Where is an apology for the 1.5 milion dead Armenians?
    Where is an apology of the 353000 executed Greeks and 2.6 exiled by Turks between 1918-1923 and 1928?
    Where is an apology to milion of Africans that murdered, raped and enslaved in 3 centuries time?
    Where is an apology to the thousands of burned villages in Vietnam by US armed forces?
    Do I need to continue the list?
    Paradox 5: IRAN needs Israel and vice versa against two comon enemies! Turkey and Saudi Arabia that have the suport of Pakistan with its "Islamic Bomb".
    So that "fanatism" we see is only for domestic use to keep social peace and national unity against a well known enemy!

    In order to be able to defend an holocaust we must learn to uknowlege ALL holocausts. We are not allowed to have selective memory.
    ALL humans are Icons of God says Christ. HE Does Not separate humans in to Christians or Jews or Muslims or white or black!
    TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material.
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  4. #64
    bigdaddy1204's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Iran holds its third Holocaust cartoon contest

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    What bothers me is that international hate relies on historical myths.
    Paradox 1: Jews were SAVED by Muslim Arabs that allowed them to freely worship their God (infact the SAME God) and travel and create buisness in the Islamic world with no restriction.
    Paradox 2: While in the time frame of 7th to 13th centuries their were 8 Jewish percecutions in Germany alone and many more in the western Christian europe n no one ever talks about them exeot the last one in the 20th century!
    Paradox 3: How many Muslims know that Prophet Mohamad considered Mulsims and Christians as "His Brothers"?
    Paradox 4: Western Europe always focuses on the Jewish Holocaust but its seams that choses to forget other ones that it created.
    Where is an apology to Native Americans that were conquered and mass murdered (40 millions in less than a century)?
    Where is an apology of the Holocaust in south Spain when Granada fell when douzen of thousands of Jews and Mulsims executed after forced to embrace Christianity?
    Where is an apology of 17 milion dead of the Soviet Union unarmed killed by Germany?
    Where is an apology for the 1.5 milion dead Armenians?
    Where is an apology of the 353000 executed Greeks and 2.6 exiled by Turks between 1918-1923 and 1928?
    Where is an apology to milion of Africans that murdered, raped and enslaved in 3 centuries time?
    Where is an apology to the thousands of burned villages in Vietnam by US armed forces?
    Do I need to continue the list?
    Paradox 5: IRAN needs Israel and vice versa against two comon enemies! Turkey and Saudi Arabia that have the suport of Pakistan with its "Islamic Bomb".
    So that "fanatism" we see is only for domestic use to keep social peace and national unity against a well known enemy!

    In order to be able to defend an holocaust we must learn to uknowlege ALL holocausts. We are not allowed to have selective memory.
    ALL humans are Icons of God says Christ. HE Does Not separate humans in to Christians or Jews or Muslims or white or black!
    Well said, AnthoniusII. This is a very true and thoughtful post.
    I hope you are well and in good health my friend. I have been following your Medieval 2 Total War mod and was sorry to hear that you have been unwell. I send my good wishes to you and wish all the best and a happy recovery.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adar View Post
    I am quite impressed by the fact that you managed to make such a rant but still manage to phrase it in such a way that it is neither relevant to the thread nor to the topic you are trying to introduce to the thread.

  5. #65
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Iran holds its third Holocaust cartoon contest

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    Where is an apology to Native Americans that were conquered and mass murdered (40 millions in less than a century)?
    Most Natives died due to disease, not warfare. This myth gets repeated way too much.
    Last edited by Tiberios; May 27, 2016 at 02:13 AM.
    Best/Worst quotes of TWC

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    While you are at it, allow Germany to rearm, it's not like they committed the worst atrocity in modern history, so having a strong army can't lead to anything pitiful.

  6. #66
    Harith's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Iran holds its third Holocaust cartoon contest

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Most Natives died due to disease, not warfare. This myth gets repeated way too much.
    And the rape, land theft, economic plunder, humiliation, slavery and systemic protection until 1990s by the catholic church is also a myth?

    Give me a break.

  7. #67

    Default Re: Iran holds its third Holocaust cartoon contest

    The history of Jewish people living in predominantly Muslim lands before the foundation of modern Israel is very whitewashed. In reality, there were pogroms perpetrated by Muslims which even predated the 1st Crusade:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1033_Fez_massacre
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1066_Granada_massacre

    other examples:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...oms_by_Muslims

    But hey, these little known facts won't stop certain people in their efforts to paint a sugarcoated image of an idyllic Al-Andalus ...
    Last edited by Pinarius; May 20, 2016 at 09:14 PM.

  8. #68
    Harith's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Iran holds its third Holocaust cartoon contest

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinarius View Post
    The history of Jewish people living in predominantly Muslim lands before the foundation of modern Israel is very whitewashed. In reality, there were pogroms perpetrated by Muslims which even predated the 1st Crusade:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1033_Fez_massacre
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1066_Granada_massacre

    other examples:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...oms_by_Muslims

    But hey, these little known facts won't stop certain people in their efforts to paint a sugarcoated image of an idyllic Al-Andalus ...
    The pogroms are, as unfortunate as they are, a fraction of what Europe at that time committed.

    What's ironic is that after the Reconquista, "Christian Europe" committed this act:

    "Ferdinand and Isabella rejected Torquemada's demand that the Jews be expelled until January 1492, when the Spanish Army defeated Muslim forces in Granada, thereby restoring the whole of Spain to Christian rule. With their most important project, the country's unification, accomplished, the king and queen concluded that the Jews were expendable. On March 30, they issued the expulsion decree, the order to take effect in precisely four months. The short time span was a great boon to the rest of Spain, as the Jews were forced to liquidate their homes and businesses at absurdly low prices. Throughout those frantic months, Dominican priests actively encouraged Jews to convert to Christianity and thereby gain salvation both in this world and the next.

    The most fortunate of the expelled Jews succeeded in escaping to Turkey. Sultan Bajazet welcomed them warmly. "How can you call Ferdinand of Aragon a wise king," he was fond of asking, "the same Ferdinand who impoverished his own land and enriched ours?" Among the most unfortunate refugees were those who fled to neighboring Portugal. In 1496, King Manuel of Portugal concluded an agreement to marry Isabella, the daughter of Spain's monarchs. As a condition of the marriage, the Spanish royal family insisted that Portugal expel her Jews. King Manuel agreed, although he was reluctant to lose his affluent and accomplished Jewish community.

    In the end, only eight Portuguese Jews were actually expelled; tens of thousands of others were forcibly converted to Christianity on pain of death. The chief rabbi, Simon Maimi, was one of those who refused to convert. He was kept buried in earth up to his neck for seven days until he died. In the final analysis, all of these events took place because of the relentless will of one man, Tomas de Torquemada.

    The Spanish Jews who ended up in Turkey, North Africa, Italy, and elsewhere throughout Europe and the Arab world, were known as Sephardim — Sefarad being the Hebrew name for Spain. After the expulsion, the Sephardim imposed an informal ban forbidding Jews from ever again living in Spain. Specifically because their earlier sojourn in that country had been so happy, the Jews regarded the expulsion as a terrible betrayal, and have remembered it ever since with particular bitterness. Of the dozens of expulsions directed against Jews throughout their history, the one from Spain remains the most infamous."

    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...expulsion.html

    Not to mention that up until the 1950s, jews were ministers and top bureaucrats across the Arab world, at a time when they were being incinerated in Europe.

    Don't play this game. You will lose.

  9. #69

    Default Re: Iran holds its third Holocaust cartoon contest

    You'd think after the first two times when their embassies were not burnt to the ground nor their cartoonists murdered in cold blood the Iranians would stop carrying out an annual event which so starkly illustrates the difference between the idea of freedom of speech in liberal democracies versus the idea of blasphemy in theocracies.
    Last edited by Sphere; May 24, 2016 at 12:28 AM.

  10. #70
    Gäiten's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Iran holds its third Holocaust cartoon contest

    We see the thriving Jewish communities in Islamic lands.

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  11. #71

    Default Re: Iran holds its third Holocaust cartoon contest

    Quote Originally Posted by Harith View Post
    Not to mention that up until the 1950s, jews were ministers and top bureaucrats across the Arab world, at a time when they were being incinerated in Europe.
    Funny how it's completely the opposite nowadays, just change "incinerated" by "hated".

  12. #72
    Henry of Grosmont's Avatar Clockwork Angel
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    Default Re: Iran holds its third Holocaust cartoon contest

    Quote Originally Posted by Sphere View Post
    You'd think after the first two times when their embassies were not burnt to the ground nor their cartoonists murdered in cold blood the Iranians would stop carrying out an annual event which so starkly illustrates the difference between the idea of freedom of speech in liberal democracies versus the idea of blasphemy in theocracies.
    Best post, so far.

    Along with the "who the cares?"


    P.S. Interestingly, again and again, comparison between Muhammad/Islam and race/ethnicity never fails to show its nonsensical head.

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