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Thread: Ptolemaic recruitment

  1. #1
    Quinn Inuit's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Ptolemaic recruitment

    The Ptolemaic Empire has too easy of a time of it in this game. How can I better simulate the gradual disintegration of their ability to recruit Macedonian soldiers and their increasing reliance on natives and mercenaries? Here are some ideas just to get the conversation started:


    • Use the reform feature to remove their ability to recruit certain units as time passes
    • Add one turn to the recruitment time on their Hellenized infantry


    Um...that's all I've got.

    One complicating factor is that I'd still like for them to be able to recruit more easily if they capture settlements of Macedonians, especially in Syria.
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Ptolemaic recruitment

    That is a tough one! In RTR we currently have it set up where Macedonian troops can only be recruited in Alexandria and Ptolemais (two Macedonian Settlements). I don't have a source but Mausolos has one on this next point: Memphis and Thebes (Our other two cities on the Lower Nile) can only recruit native Egyptian units, as no macedonians lived there (hence the revolts around 200 BC). We also allowed Pelusium (north eastern Sinai) to have access to Macedonian troops but its a smaller establishment. Also, when I say native Egyptians I mean that. Spearmen, Bowmen, Slingers, Skirmishers, Axemen, and Light Cavalry. We have Machimoi, but we will probably set them up for the marian event or some kind of scripted reforms (we have yet to cross this bridge) but thats the jist of our recruitment in Egypt. They will mainly be fielding native troops and levies with a small core of Macedonians from Alexandria and Ptolemais (which also is smaller, as is Pelusium) so really just Alexandria.
    Jerusalem, Sidon, and Tyre can only recruit eastern levies and possibly some greek levies. Side, Paphos, Halicarnassus, Naxos and Mytilene are basically not even part of the core and they only have access to levies.

    If they are able to expand into Seleucid Macedonian areas, they will be able to recruit them there as well (Antioch, Edessa, Seleucia, Dura) but yeah you get the point, we are very restrictive. What we are lacking are test results because our beta is so fresh. As time goes on we will get a better feel for how Egypt does with its recruitment. I believe you have the current mod, you just gotta 'pull it' using GIT or download it old school style from our release thread and you can have a look for yourself!

  3. #3
    Quinn Inuit's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Ptolemaic recruitment

    We handle it broadly similarly for Egyptian recruitment, and I like the idea of treating the Upper Nile provinces as part of our Client Kingdom government rather than the Hellenic settlement government. Alternatively, we could even use a separate building tree for Egypt and limited in its effects to the Ptollies to handle the settlement patterns there.

    Careful about the Memphis/Middle Egypt area, though. While there wasn't much Macedonian settlement there, there were a lot of Gallic and Thracian kleruchoi. Probably some Hebrews, too, now that I think about it.
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Ptolemaic recruitment

    Well thanks I may add a few of those cultured mercs there

  5. #5
    Quinn Inuit's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Ptolemaic recruitment

    NP, mate.

    What if I make the Ptolemaic Empire and Bactria unable to build additional Macedonian settlements (so they have to mooch off of existing ones) and allow the Ptollies to build a kleruchoi tree inspired by Florin80's foederati trees in his late Roman-era mod?
    ...
    Wow. I just checked and he had his forum deleted. That's a shame. It was a solid mod. Basically, you built a foederati building, and then chose the kind of foederati you wanted to move in. The Ptollies did basically the same thing. We could implement something along those lines.
    RTR Platinum Team Apprentice, RTR VII Team Member, and Extended Realism Mod Team Coordinator. Proud member of House Wilpuri under the patronage of Pannonian

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  6. #6

    Default Re: Ptolemaic recruitment

    What was the mod called again? And yeah let's do it! I'll implement it into RTR if it works well

  7. #7

    Default Re: Ptolemaic recruitment

    at this point after all these years, you guys could seriously consider securing funding to start your own game dev studio

  8. #8

    Default Re: Ptolemaic recruitment

    The mod was called The Fall of Rome. I don't think it's even on the net anymore. I forget what happened

  9. #9
    Quinn Inuit's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Ptolemaic recruitment

    Quote Originally Posted by jtlannister View Post
    at this point after all these years, you guys could seriously consider securing funding to start your own game dev studio
    LOL, nah. I'd like to keep this as more of a hobby. I think it's more fun that way.

    Speaking of years, it looks like this isn't the first time we've confronted this question: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...Ptolemaic-army

    I think I'm leaning toward the solution of not allowing the Ptollies to build new colonies, but they'll be able to make use of existing ones in places like Syria, just like Carados suggests in that thread. I'll probably do the same with Bactria, for similar reasons. What do you all think?
    RTR Platinum Team Apprentice, RTR VII Team Member, and Extended Realism Mod Team Coordinator. Proud member of House Wilpuri under the patronage of Pannonian

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  10. #10

    Default Re: Ptolemaic recruitment

    Quote Originally Posted by Quinn Inuit View Post
    I think I'm leaning toward the solution of not allowing the Ptollies to build new colonies, but they'll be able to make use of existing ones in places like Syria, just like Carados suggests in that thread. I'll probably do the same with Bactria, for similar reasons. What do you all think?
    Sounds good for me. Crippling every enemy Parthia has too face sooner or later, that might help with the "Parthia problem".
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  11. #11
    Libertus
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    Default Re: Ptolemaic recruitment

    Well, not allowing the Ptollies (or Bactrians) to build new colonies at all also means to prevent them from receiving a big chunk of tax income. The colony government buildings are where the hellenistic kingdoms have their +50%, +60% tax boni.
    In general, I think, any new mode of recruitment for these two factions can be different, but it should certainly not be (significantly) weaker than that of the other hellenistic kingdoms. Ptollies as well as Bactrians have to compete with their big neighbour, the Seleucid Empire, which loves to paint the map in dark red.

    Maybe the Ptollies (and Bactrians) can build their own colony-type govt building only where a hellenistic colony of another faction is already established. (Something similar to the "Hellenic Client Kingdom" building of the eastern factions; check: EDU -> barracks_pontus -> auxilia_phase1 -> upgrade to muster_field) This would mean that they take over an existing colony and establish their own form of government "on top". Their existing colony govt building tree can then be further differentiated between recruitment in homeland AoR and in newly conquered colonies, while they keep the usual boni to tax income. Also, Autonomia/Client State buildings would keep their distinct function.

    Furthermore, there is already a system in place where the Bactrians can recruit out of existing Seleucid colonies, whenever they take over a settlement (and vice versa). This might need a change, as well, or even become obsolete...
    Btw, the big problem I always had with this system is that it gives incentive to not tear down the other faction's govt building. Tearing down the usually useless govt building of another faction provides valuable funds to build your own. At the moment, Bactria can instantly recruit from Seleucid colonies, but it doesn't receive tax incomes. To get those, it must still build its own colony.
    Last edited by sere; May 15, 2016 at 06:09 PM. Reason: typo
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  12. #12
    Quinn Inuit's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Ptolemaic recruitment

    Quote Originally Posted by sere View Post
    Well, not allowing the Ptollies (or Bactrians) to build new colonies at all also means to prevent them from receiving a big chunk of tax income. The colony government buildings are where the hellenistic kingdoms have their +50%, +60% tax boni.
    In general, I think, any new mode of recruitment for these two factions can be different, but it should certainly not be (significantly) weaker than that of the other hellenistic kingdoms. Ptollies as well as Bactrians have to compete with their big neighbour, the Seleucid Empire, which loves to paint the map in dark red.

    Maybe the Ptollies (and Bactrians) can build their own colony-type govt building only where a hellenistic colony of another faction is already established. (Something similar to the "Hellenic Client Kingdom" building of the eastern factions; check: EDU -> barracks_pontus -> auxilia_phase1 -> upgrade to muster_field) This would mean that they take over an existing colony and establish their own form of government "on top". Their existing colony govt building tree can then be further differentiated between recruitment in homeland AoR and in newly conquered colonies, while they keep the usual boni to tax income. Also, Autonomia/Client State buildings would keep their distinct function.

    Furthermore, there is already a system in place where the Bactrians can recruit out of existing Seleucid colonies, whenever they take over a settlement (and vice versa). This might need a change, as well, or even become obsolete...
    I like that idea. So we'll limit Ptollies and Bactrians to building colony buildings to where a Hellenistic colony is already present? That would be easy to implement.

    If we do that, perhaps we should remove the Bactrian/Seleucid recruitment from each others' colonies.

    Quote Originally Posted by sere View Post
    Btw, the big problem I always had with this system is that it gives incentive to not tear down the other faction's govt building. Tearing down the usually useless govt building of another faction provides valuable funds to build your own. At the moment, Bactria can instantly recruit from Seleucid colonies, but it doesn't receive tax incomes. To get those, it must still build its own colony.
    That's fair, but I like to discourage players from tearing down buildings. The AI can't do it, so it seems like an unfair advantage for the player.
    RTR Platinum Team Apprentice, RTR VII Team Member, and Extended Realism Mod Team Coordinator. Proud member of House Wilpuri under the patronage of Pannonian

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