Expert needed : Does this come close to the real thing?

**LaMuerte** · April 25, 2016, 12:58 PM

While surfing the internet looking for some World War I stuff , I found this peculiar footage. Unfortunately, I am not a big expert on Roman uniforms and tactics , so I thought I would ask the TWC people what they think about this footage. Does this come even close to the real deal , equipment and formation wise? The only thing I can say as a layman is that they are not holding a pilum , as it seems too long for it. Then again, I lack the knowledge to know if a longer version like this one would have been used by Romans at a certain point of time.

Can any of the experts here shine their light on this footage? Much appreciated!

Bonus Question : As for Roman battlefield tactics I always imagine manipular tactics to be as in the next footage of a Korean police drill. I am sure some you can confirm this , or else dispel this silly notion from my thoughts...

**Charerg** · April 25, 2016, 02:30 PM

Well, the second videa is of course much closer to the "real thing" (being an irl situation rather than a show), and I'd guess it would actually be more representative of Roman tactics than most Hollywood depictions.

**Aru** · April 25, 2016, 03:08 PM

There are better modern reenactments.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Modern riots are a window into ancient warfare, although in the real situation it gets little more chaotic than on practice.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**Magister Militum Flavius Aetius** · April 25, 2016, 09:19 PM

The Romans were strange to us: They had formation drills, but they drilled based on the position of the standard bearer, which was in the front and center of the formation. They didn't march in step (there was no need to and it was probably impossible based on their drilling methods) and in fact, most of the drill commands we know are for cavalry. The infantry ones are reconstructed from cavalry commands, for the most part, and all of it dates to the late 6th century.

That being said, that first video linked by Aru is a fantastic demonstration.

**Cyclops** · April 26, 2016, 12:29 AM

As far as I can see based on limited knowledge the Korean police there are not using classical Roman tactics. They do use multiple lines at times which perhaps recall the triplex acies formation, and sections of lines are detached for separate manoeuvre perhaps recalling aspects of manipular doctrine but manipular doctrine was employed form the quincunx formation, and the triplex acies formation is associated with entire lines marching through to engage the enemy relieving the engaged lines which I don't see happening precisely in the video.

I imagine its possible Roman troops at times manoeuvred from a dense to a dispersed formation, sending a column through the main line etc, not sure if there's any sources for that.

The formation at 1:27 is interesting, where a shield holder is backed a by a truncheon swinger in wide spaced two man teams. It vaguely recalls the mixed Persian units of the Hellenic period where two man teams with a massive shield holder and an archer delivered fire from cover. I've read about Alexander being shielded by his personal bodyguard so perhaps there's elements of classical or heroic age combat represented there too.

I imagine most of these tactics are suitable for an engagement of (perhaps a smaller force of) police against an untrained rabble of protesters, so manoeuvres where the police line is thinned right out, or two man teams dart through to seize protesters make sense: some of them wouldn't be happening against a force with the same level of training and equipment who could react coherently to rapid changes from the enemy.

I think the first video is a bit of a laugh, the shields seem a bit flat and the spears look to have the half metal shaft of a pilum, but they are well over two metres (maybe 2.6?) so its possibly more "fantasy" Roman equipment. I'm sure the Romans had various formations like the square, I'm less certain about the use of the tortoise for crowdsurfing.

There's a great deal of unsourced rubbish (thanks Magister for the stuff mentioned the difficulties with sources above) about the Romans, just take a look at the wiki page for the sort of generalisations being put about.

At the very least the videos give a sense of formations in motion.