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Thread: RSIII pictures and postive comments....

  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by LoGaL View Post
    that's a completely wrong assumption : at least seleucid scythed chariots ( didn't try the pontus ones, but i guess....) DESTROY in meele ANY cavalry unit they are facing : i normally use them to kill the 4-5 cataphract untis thats the AI has in its army
    Also, typically the AI likes to go meele with his HA when you field several archer units : defend such archers with the scythed chariot unit and see HA die , die and die again
    Keep them away from infantry
    Well, honestly, I did make some personalized adjustments to units stats when RS 2.6 was released. With chariots, I think the only thing I may have done is reduce the cost of the scythed chariots a little (but still very expensive) -- but maybe along with elephants they were also weakened slightly. Probably the Trocmi chariots are exactly the same as they were, although I wouldn't recruit those anyway. So, I don't think I did anything to change the situation dramatically, and what I said should be basically valid. But I rarely use any chariots, and yes indeed, I take your point, they are quite effective against cavalry in melee. I didn't mean to suggest they're only good as ranged units, or only good at fighting foot skirmishers.

    The specific problem I was trying to address, however, is getting them into a melee with horse archers, which are faster and which tend to skirmish away from melee, unlike cataphracts which are inclined to charge toward anything and everything (not to mention that compared to chariots, all HAs have a longer range and more ammo, I think). If you can catch up with a HA and/or get it cornered somehow, then you should let your chariots have at it, because they'll rip the HA apart. But that's a big "if," especially when you're up against an army which has several elite horse archer units along with various other forces. And in cities, where you might think it would be easier to get HAs trapped somewhere, the chariots take up too much space to move around and attack effectively.

    That's a serious problem. In a typical field battle, getting one or two cavalry (not six or ten or more) to move away from the pack and into the corner you've prepared for it doesn't generally work. If you're going to have your expensive scythed chariots attack a huge mass of HAs/miscellaneous cavalry, you could do so and they will probably do a decent amount of damage. But they will probably not make it out in very good shape, and you'd probably get better results and save money if you sent a larger group of less-expensive units to do things like that. The idea is that chariots can be the "muscle" for your HAs and coordinate their attacks with them, since chariots certainly can stand up in melee against cavalry, better than cheap/disposable units like tarantines (or whatever units you'd have to screen/defend your HAs from melee attackers, if not tarantines specifically). The chariots can make use of their ranged attacks along with the HAs (until they run out perhaps) while your real heavy melee cavalry are defending/attacking elsewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbold View Post
    Ovidius Empiricus: I was refering more to melee action, that is, if i manage to corner/pin down enemy HA, would my scythed chariots be effective there.

    I have some previous experience with chariots, but overall, it's that they suck with the exception of messing up enemy lines. Pulling them out of an engagement is also troublesome as they're unable to do so in an organized manner.
    Heh, sorry, cross-posted. I addressed some of that in the previous comment. With or without chariots, I usually send missile cavalry around the left flank (maybe one will hold back HAs close to my right flank, if I see there are lots of them in the enemy army). The general and cavalry follow behind them, also around the left flank, and a couple of archers stay behind my infantry line, firing at enemy ranged units that are most threatening to the infantry and/or cavalry forces. Slingers and skirmishers can screen the infantry, or holes in the line can open/close for them so they can fire in relative safety. So, it generally looks sort of like this at first:


    HH
    CC IIIIIII
    ---AA

    But the melee cavalry don't have much to do at the beginning, just provide some insurance against charges from cataphracts/etc. that would otherwise think the HAs look like a tempting target. The HAs (and/or javelin cav) stay in front or closest to the nearest enemies, so they can make the most use of their ranged attack and protect the general from enemy fire. So the general/cavalry most often circle behind the HAs, and it winds up more like this:

    CH
    CH
    ---IIIIIII
    AA

    Chariots don't have the range that a horse archer does, but they can protect the HAs from other cavalry, by staying with them behind the *enemy* infantry lines (*edit*) while the cavalry go in for a charge. At least, like I said, until they run out of ammo. With formations like this, you can often get the enemy cavalry to separate somewhat from its infantry (while yours is still fairly tightly grouped together), so that everybody should be in the right place at the right time. But the chariots (or other fast multi-purpose units like tarantines) are generally either supporting a larger group of missile cav or melee cav, not going out on their own to assassinate a target or something like that.
    Last edited by Flinn; May 25, 2016 at 05:14 AM.

  2. #62

    Default Re: RSIII pictures and postive comments....

    One amusing thing about the supersized cavalry units (Scythian Horse Archers, etc) and chariots in settlements on Huge unit size is watching them go nuts trying to take corners or so on and then get pulled outside the settlement where they can fight spearmen to their inevitable deaths just a few feet away from the rest of the stack.


    A lot of good things can occur when you remember that the AI cannot control its horse archers' shooting. So if you are patient you make the AI waste all the arrows, which allows you much more convenient moving about afterwards. (Foot archers and slingers are somewhat more selective, I like using a unit like Thureophoroi to absorb their missiles).

    ====================================================



    We have stitched together various maps sold to us by different factions (still need Sarmatia and Parthia). As you can see, I've taken the plunge and starting moving out in both the northern and eastern fronts!

    ====================================================



    My faction leader (a super-general at this point) has reached up a little and taken Scythia's Treasury city of Tyras. Olbia is a safe hold, as it only borders Scythia and Greek-City States (so, not Sarmatia). I will Parry & Riposte that stack sieging it, they are rather decent units.

    However, Campus Alazones will border Sarmatia, still would be a decent idea to clear the stack in it and nuke recruitment etc. The defenders are a full stack but it is mostly crappy spearmen or skirmishers. Even though it is the First army, it has not recieved any reinforcements of the new Gold Scythian Archers, so Greek Slingers will have to carry them for a couple of battles.

    ====================================================



    In the east, my faction successor took one of Pergamon's two settlements. Turns out this one didn't have a barracks in it... I thought the AI was recruiting there so I attacked since who wants to deal with unit spam. Most likely the AI was grabbing mercenaries. But with some new reinforcements we might just finish off Pergamon. However, the script made us ceasefire so perhaps that isn't necessary.

    We now border Armenia, however the Seleucids might just take that settlement. If so it will be necessary to start a two-pronged attack on Pontus/Armenia/Seleucids.


    ====================================================



    This is the faction leader's eldest son, and a new addition which means I have three generals now. He will take the lower prong, and follow the coastline towards Antiochea (which is a Seleucid Treasury city).
    Last edited by Alavaria; May 24, 2016 at 11:37 PM.

  3. #63
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    Default Re: RSIII pictures and postive comments....

    in res Chariots:
    Those Scyted Seleucid Chariots saved my Game a lot of times. As seleucid I always had two Stacks of mixed Horse Archers and two Units of Chariots to defend my eastern and northern border against the Hordes of Parthians and Sarmatians.

    In 2.6. there was no big difference in the Ranges of HA and Chariots as far as my Memory serves....

    In short, they kill every cav in meelee (dont klick attack, let them simply move through the enemy, makes moving much easier).... and they can take masses of incoming fire, let the enemy waste his ammo and then shot and kill his already tired HA`s.... makes the catching Part doable.

  4. #64

    Default Re: RSIII pictures and postive comments....

    ovidius empiricus, HA going meele happens more often than you would expect as i said, when you field several foot archers, they tendto charge them

  5. #65
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    Default Re: RSIII pictures and postive comments....

    Salutations gentlemen, I haven't played RS for far too long. I have followed it since the days of 1.5, now remembering the days of waiting for RSII seem like a millenia ago, much like the wait!

    Yesterday I remembered, there was a mod i haven't seen in such a long time, so i decided to make a visit, lo and behold RSIII is out!

    In short, i cannot wait to get home from work, check out the changes and start the dominion of Macedon!


  6. #66
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    Default Re: RSIII pictures and postive comments....

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOne View Post
    Salutations gentlemen, I haven't played RS for far too long. I have followed it since the days of 1.5, now remembering the days of waiting for RSII seem like a millenia ago, much like the wait!

    Yesterday I remembered, there was a mod i haven't seen in such a long time, so i decided to make a visit, lo and behold RSIII is out!

    In short, i cannot wait to get home from work, check out the changes and start the dominion of Macedon!
    Atleast you won't playing as the roman dogs

  7. #67

    Default Re: RSIII pictures and postive comments....

    Blasphemy! We Romans descend of Aeneas, prince of Troje. It is our fate, confirmed by Jupiter, Juno and Minerva to rule the world. Barbarians from the highlands of the Picts to the steppes of Mesopotamia will fear our mighty legions. The world shakes and the ground trembles at the arrival of the Aquilifir who declares the land Roman.

  8. #68
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    Default Re: RSIII pictures and postive comments....

    Quote Originally Posted by Quintillius View Post
    Blasphemy! We Romans descend of Aeneas, prince of Troje. It is our fate, confirmed by Jupiter, Juno and Minerva to rule the world. Barbarians from the highlands of the Picts to the steppes of Mesopotamia will fear our mighty legions. The world shakes and the ground trembles at the arrival of the Aquilifir who declares the land Roman.
    Your fate is to be put down like the scum you are!

  9. #69

    Default Re: RSIII pictures and postive comments....

    Shooting Romans in the back makes for great screenshots.

    Last edited by Alavaria; May 25, 2016 at 11:18 AM.

  10. #70
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    Default Re: RSIII pictures and postive comments....

    I can't tell you how much it pisses me off that the AI can't use phalanx units properly. That or im doing something wrong. Every single time the AI has a stack with 6-7 phalanx units in it, it will just send them all in a massive blob agaisn't your center.

    Obviously my straight center line, as phalanx aswell, is gonna crumble cause the enemy weight is unevenly distributed. It's like they saw the germans fight and went "hey, how about we take their wedge formation and apply it to ours"?

    Screw that man, a veteran army freshly retrained lost 3 phalanx units cause of that crap.

  11. #71

    Default Re: RSIII pictures and postive comments....

    So basically the AI repeated what happened in Sellasia and used an excessive mass of phalanx to break through another phalanx**? Or perhaps this is more like the oblique phalanx where a particular part is heavier, to break through another phalanx.

    I'm always amazed at how phalanxes in this game can just turn about while being hit by horsemen or in some cases, can just ball up and start piking in every direction like some sort of hedgehog.


    **I haven't really figured out what causes the AI to just tunnelvision all it's units against a single unit, if this happens it can allow for some very efficient stack liquidation as they will all bunch together, provided, of course, you gain their rear (or somehow get them to spin about by moving your units) with missiles.
    Last edited by Alavaria; May 26, 2016 at 06:33 PM.

  12. #72
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    Default Re: RSIII pictures and postive comments....

    It's more like it sends it's regular infantry agaisn't my phalanx line and then that is followed by their own phalanxes which basically amass into one big pile and disrupt everything.

  13. #73

    Default Re: RSIII pictures and postive comments....

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbold View Post
    It's more like it sends it's regular infantry agaisn't my phalanx line and then that is followed by their own phalanxes which basically amass into one big pile and disrupt everything.
    Ah yes, that's a classic, I wonder how the enemy infantry feel when they're being sandwiched between the two lines of pikemen. Of course, the friendlies won't hurt them but it still feels so... wasteful.



    The AI got me pretty good here, I was expecting the big stack to siege the trap settlement nearby and -BAM- I would own it. Instead, well somehow it managed to get all these guys on me, which was pretty bad considering this army is optimized to kill people in settlements...




    It was quite the hair-raiser when the AI decided to charge all those people at once... after it had used up all the foot archers' ammo (but sadly their mounted archers were further back and shot up some of my own archers).

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    When the AI like to pull out in order to recharge, sometimes this is a bad idea...


    Melee slingers.




    I actually still had to do quite a decent bit of shooting.

    It would probably have gone better if those slingers were actually archers as they were definitely not shooting at their ideal point-blank range. I really need a missile doctrine reform for my armies... the Scythian Archer Reforms

    I had also planned a switch to the Greek Thorakitai but decided against it. Yeah I could've used their (slightly) higher armor and their boost in defense skill (and 240 soldiers per unit vs 200) in this. Thureophoroi aren't that sturdy. But oh well...
    Last edited by Alavaria; May 27, 2016 at 12:38 AM.

  14. #74

    Default Re: RSIII pictures and postive comments....

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbold View Post
    It's more like it sends it's regular infantry agaisn't my phalanx line and then that is followed by their own phalanxes which basically amass into one big pile and disrupt everything.
    are You playing on BI or Alex? I see this stupid problem a lor, as I mainly play Hellenistic factions. With Alex, this happens fewer than with the others, but it still can happen. When two phalanx units engage, they hold their men together and use their pikes properly. From my observatins it seems that the AI somehow tells his phalanx units to stop the guard mode and then they push and push, only armed with their short swords and cause this line breaking mess. Even when you don't use the phalanx mode, but with guard mode, the phalanx doesn't breake off and keeps its formation. So one order of the Ai could be the problem.

  15. #75
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    Default Re: RSIII pictures and postive comments....

    Darth Bane1: None, i play on regular RTW. It's a really annoying problem, but one can't expect miracles from RTW's AI. Ideally the 2 sides would put their phalanx lines agaisn't each and, typically, the real fight would happen on the flanks. Alas, that couldn't be farther from what happens.

    Yesterday i had 2 battles where 2 units of levy phalanx were brought down to less than 5 soldiers because the AI insists on using it's own as a blob. Further on, i lost 1 or 2 units of allied phalangites under the same circumstances and that pissed me even more since those were 2 gold chevron units.

    I would romanize my army setups, but Pontus doesn't have that strong of an infantry for a main line.

  16. #76

    Default Re: RSIII pictures and postive comments....

    Then I would suggest you to try Alex when you play one of the Hellenistic factions. Alex seems to be better with them. For the non-hellenistic Factions and Rome, BI is good.

  17. #77
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    Default Re: RSIII pictures and postive comments....

    I don't have those available.

    Has anyone gone through the hassle of testing the different formation files for the AI and see if there's any changes?

  18. #78
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    Default Re: RSIII pictures and postive comments....

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Managed to conquer Egypt before 700 a.u.c. Now to clear the rest of Greece from the Macedonians. Unfortunately, taking Pella spawned 2 stacks, one of which has been defeated.

    Keeping the pesky Sarmatians away from northern Greece/Thrace took a lot of bribing, a few raids and "offers" of settlements to my enemies, namely the Greeks and Macedon, in order to make a buffer zone.

    I also took more or less half of the tSE cities and left their eastern ones alone cause.....well, Parthia.

  19. #79

    Default Re: RSIII pictures and postive comments....

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Bane1 View Post
    Then I would suggest you to try Alex when you play one of the Hellenistic factions. Alex seems to be better with them. For the non-hellenistic Factions and Rome, BI is good.
    Thanks for tips men

    Sent from my Smartfren Andromax AD688G using Tapatalk
    My name is John, Tribune of Legio Ripenses IX Tertiae Italica and loyal servant to the computer generated Emperor, Julianus Flavius Augustus "The Apostles". And I will have my vengeance again The Quadi tribes, barbarian scums who decimated half of my legio in Mediolanum City Siege almost a year ago and Gratianus Flavius "The Traitor", the former Caesar who convince a half of precious my legio to his petty scheme rebellion just 3 months ago in this save game or the next
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  20. #80

    Default Re: RSIII pictures and postive comments....

    What you really don't want to deal with in melee: 360 Greek Generals Guard Cavalry...

    (I shot most of them to death using 2 or 3 units of archers, from the walls.)



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