Clash of the Successors - the Diadochi IH

[Dirty Chai]

I have two slots open if anyone wants to trade with Baktra.

Gotcha, I have one open

[Pyrrhus the Molossian]

I've got both of you if you want it. Want to send a messenger to Pella or should the Regent?

If you wouldn't mind sending a messenger that would be great. I'll get you a reply typed up after work. (Hour or two.)

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

I have no trade yet.

[Barry Goldwater]

Hmm, what does everyone think of allowing Pantodapoi Phalangitai to be recruited everywhere you can't already recruit basic infantry (ex. Egypt's Machimoi, the Greek states' hoplites) and adding Pantodapoi Toxotai, Psiloi & Hippeis (fodder-level native archers, skirmishers & cavalry respectively) to regions that don't already have an equivalent to these units (ex. the Asiatikoi Hippeis)? That should allow everyone to recruit a decent variety of native troops even without Hellenization.

Also, if you guys want Alexander's regular troops to be up for grabs in addition to his elites - anyone got their numbers as of 323 BC?

Concerning Phil III, I don't think you'd be able to interact much or meaningfully with him on account of his disability - it'd be like chatting with a somewhat less demented (and significantly less inbred, not that that's particularly helpful here) Carlos II. Certainly he didn't seem to amount to being anything beyond a pawn for various Diadochi IRL, and basically did nothing on his own through the wars of the successors. You'd have to consult with the Regent (atm Perry) or take possession of him to get anything done through him, doubly so now since Alexander IV was born Alexandra instead and Phil is now the sole King of Macedon.

Also: hoplites are now recruitable in Cyrenaica.

[Dirty Chai]

If I can recruit Pantodapoi Phalangitai in Persis as a Persian, then it should be recruitable everywhere.

You should consider making it limited to only characters with Macedonian culture (or Macedonian descent, like with the Heterogenes).
So Macedonian ethnicity allows you to recruit basic native phalanxes

I don't know what it's like in other regions, but Persis at least has a full roster even without those phalanxes.
I've got archer-spearmen, and good cavalry options.

[Pyrrhus the Molossian]

Hmm, what does everyone think of allowing Pantodapoi Phalangitai to be recruited everywhere you can't already recruit basic infantry (ex. Egypt's Machimoi, the Greek states' hoplites) and adding Pantodapoi Toxotai, Psiloi & Hippeis (fodder-level native archers, skirmishers & cavalry respectively) to regions that don't already have an equivalent to these units (ex. the Asiatikoi Hippeis)? That should allow everyone to recruit a decent variety of native troops even without Hellenization.

Also, if you guys want Alexander's regular troops to be up for grabs in addition to his elites - anyone got their numbers as of 323 BC?

Concerning Phil III, I don't think you'd be able to interact much or meaningfully with him on account of his disability - it'd be like chatting with a somewhat less demented (and significantly less inbred, not that that's particularly helpful here) Carlos II. Certainly he didn't seem to amount to being anything beyond a pawn for various Diadochi IRL, and basically did nothing on his own through the wars of the successors. You'd have to consult with the Regent (atm Perry) or take possession of him to get anything done through him, doubly so now since Alexander IV was born Alexandra instead and Phil is now the sole King of Macedon.

Also: hoplites are now recruitable in Cyrenaica.

Perfect solution Barry. I'm all for it.

Well his army at that point consisted of numerous non Hellenic units, mercenaries, and all the Macedonians he had left were equivalent to the most elite of any soldiers in existence. I would add that his army did have elephants at this point which we know for sure. Around 30-50 if I remember correctly taken from the Persians and conquered Indian states. So essentially besides Macedonian elites:

Newly raised Persian pikemen that were ordered to be trained by Alexander
Numerous mercenaries from varied backgrounds
Lots of varied cavalry from Persian and Bactrians to Dahae horse archers
Possibly more that were being assembled to invade Arabia


Exactly. He's mentally incompetent and easily kept under the thumb of whoever has possession of him.

[Pyrrhus the Molossian]

If I can recruit Pantodapoi Phalangitai in Persis as a Persian, then it should be recruitable everywhere.

You should consider making it limited to only characters with Macedonian culture (or Macedonian descent, like with the Heterogenes).
So Macedonian ethnicity allows you to recruit basic native phalanxes

I don't know what it's like in other regions, but Persis at least has a full roster even without those phalanxes.
I've got archer-spearmen, and good cavalry options.

Good point. I agree with you.

[Pericles of Athens]

I feel Philip III needs his own thread too, as king of the Macedonian empire.

He is Hagen's puppet, you'll have to go through him to speak with the "King".

[Pyrrhus the Molossian]

He is Hagen's puppet, you'll have to go through him to speak with the "King".

I don't understand why people think they can negotiate with a puppet. It's obvious it won't work out.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

One unit I recall was the famed Lydian heavy cavalry which the AOR would be like Lydia, Phrygia and some Cappadocian medium cavalry recruitable in Cappadocia and Pontus I guess. Actually it is hard for me to determine how much heavier the Lydians/Phrygians were than their Cappadocian counterparts were, we could just make all of these one Anatolian Heavy Cavalry. At least at Issus and Gaugamela these Anatolian troops were considered heavier than the heavy cavalry that Alexander had, at Gaugamela they smashed Alexander's cavalry only halted by the Thessalians and their discipline.
Also when Cyrus invaded Lydia he fought the Lydians to a stand still but their cavalry inflicted massive losses on some of his troops.
In the succession war between Cyrus the Younger and his brother Artaxerxes (the prelude to Xenophon's 10,000 man retreat) Cyrus the Younger being the Satrap of Asia Minor employed some of these troops and were seen as a powerhouse, by the Persians.

Maybe some Barcanian cavalry as well. You might also be able to get Anatolian pikemen which would basically be a sort of clone of Greek hoplites and phalanx with smaller stats than actual Macedonian troops. As we know from the campaigns of Cyrus and Harpagus that the Lydians used units equipped and fighting almost the same as the Greeks, they would even look similar as their tall Phrygian helmets would look much like the helmets which many of the Macedonians used.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

For Egypt I would suggest that the AOR would be Egyptian pikemen, Egyptian archers, Egyptian peltasts, Egyptian axemen, Egyptian cavalry. We know for a fact that the Egyptians also fought in a way similar to the Greeks, armed with a sort of lamellar or scale armour with a very basic pilos type of conical helmet or a sort of lamellar helmet, they would be equipped with long spears and long shields and fought in a phalanx formation. In the far western areas you might get some Libyan Archers and Libyan cavalry. Are Nubian archers in game?

Syria you would probably get AOR Syrian light cavalry, Syrian archers, maybe some Syrian melee infantry and Syrian slingers.
Maybe some Syrian spearmen or pikemen though I don't remember if these are mentioned in sources.

For Asoristan/Assyria, Babylon/Mesopotamia you would get some Babylonian/Assyrian archers, medium cavalry, light cavalry (horse archers?) and some Babylonian/Assyrian pikemen. Mesopotamian phalanx would have a conical helmet, a long shield, a long spear and a lamellar sort of armour.


Yes I actually would like the regulars of Alexander's army to be recruitable at least on turn 1.
If you want to streamline some of these native units then I would be for it. The Pantodapoi Phalangitai and what not, sure if everyone is fine with it. That way we don't need that many different units for AOR except for the specialization ones.

[Pyrrhus the Molossian]

One unit I recall was the famed Lydian heavy cavalry which the AOR would be like Lydia, Phrygia and some Cappadocian medium cavalry recruitable in Cappadocia and Pontus I guess. Actually it is hard for me to determine how much heavier the Lydians/Phrygians were than their Cappadocian counterparts were, we could just make all of these one Anatolian Heavy Cavalry. At least at Issus and Gaugamela these Anatolian troops were considered heavier than the heavy cavalry that Alexander had, at Gaugamela they smashed Alexander's cavalry only halted by the Thessalians and their discipline.
Also when Cyrus invaded Lydia he fought the Lydians to a stand still but their cavalry inflicted massive losses on some of his troops.
In the succession war between Cyrus the Younger and his brother Artaxerxes (the prelude to Xenophon's 10,000 man retreat) Cyrus the Younger being the Satrap of Asia Minor employed some of these troops and were seen as a powerhouse, by the Persians.

Maybe some Barcanian cavalry as well. You might also be able to get Anatolian pikemen which would basically be a sort of clone of Greek hoplites and phalanx with smaller stats than actual Macedonian troops. As we know from the campaigns of Cyrus and Harpagus that the Lydians used units equipped and fighting almost the same as the Greeks, they would even look similar as their tall Phrygian helmets would look much like the helmets which many of the Macedonians used.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

For Egypt I would suggest that the AOR would be Egyptian pikemen, Egyptian archers, Egyptian peltasts, Egyptian axemen, Egyptian cavalry. We know for a fact that the Egyptians also fought in a way similar to the Greeks, armed with a sort of lamellar or scale armour with a very basic pilos type of conical helmet or a sort of lamellar helmet, they would be equipped with long spears and long shields and fought in a phalanx formation. In the far western areas you might get some Libyan Archers and Libyan cavalry. Are Nubian archers in game?

Syria you would probably get AOR Syrian light cavalry, Syrian archers, maybe some Syrian melee infantry and Syrian slingers.
Maybe some Syrian spearmen or pikemen though I don't remember if these are mentioned in sources.

For Asoristan/Assyria, Babylon/Mesopotamia you would get some Babylonian/Assyrian archers, medium cavalry, light cavalry (horse archers?) and some Babylonian/Assyrian pikemen. Mesopotamian phalanx would have a conical helmet, a long shield, a long spear and a lamellar sort of armour.


Yes I actually would like the regulars of Alexander's army to be recruitable at least on turn 1.
If you want to streamline some of these native units then I would be for it. The Pantodapoi Phalangitai and what not, sure if everyone is fine with it. That way we don't need that many different units for AOR except for the specialization ones.

I think Barry's proposal works for what you guys want. He's already made decent AORs for all of the empire and some for outside it. The introduction of basic Pantodapoi for all Macedonians should address any lack of variety you might be worrying about. If we included every individual unit I should get African forest elephants because the Ptolemies captured and trained them for war. Actually, that's honestly a good idea lol.

[Dirty Chai]

Wait, you don't have elephants? I assumed you had access to them

[Pyrrhus the Molossian]

Wait, you don't have elephants? I assumed you had access to them

Not according to current rules, but I would definitely appreciate their addition because they would add a historical and very Egytian element to my army.

[Mary The Quene]

Hellenizer trait halves that timetable at the risk of a rebellion in the province. So you can technically get it done in only four days which isn't bad. And checking you have alot more unit diversity lol.

And Isabella where in the world are you getting over 64 points to spend when your provinces are only worth 20? Trade agreements, traits, etc don't effect your starting income at all. You should have 40 since your total provincial income is 20.

aaand edited again. You know what? i'm just gonna hire tons of mercenary armies from my reserves and recruit regular units later on when my economy is upgraded to its maximum

[Mary The Quene]

He is Hagen's puppet, you'll have to go through him to speak with the "King".

lol that sucks, well i can always try my plan, won't hurt anyone lol so why not trying

[Pyrrhus the Molossian]

aaand edited again. You know what? i'm just gonna hire tons of mercenary armies from my reserves and recruit regular units later on when my economy is upgraded to its maximum

Lol that does work I guess. We just need Oda and Dr Fumanchu to edit purchases and we'll all be ready to go for the game start.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Only reason we haven't is because I have no idea what I can recruit. Is Barry going to make changes to recruitment? Otherwise I'll just grab some AOR units even though I don't have any (yet?).

[Mary The Quene]

Only reason we haven't is because I have no idea what I can recruit. Is Barry going to make changes to recruitment? Otherwise I'll just grab some AOR units even though I don't have any (yet?).

you can purchase some elite units of the regular list or the AOR units of your region and that would be the Anatolikoi Phyletai in your case

you can also improve you economy with your points or hellenize them but i suspect you don't have to do the latter as you have enough hellenic people in your lands

[Pyrrhus the Molossian]

Hmm, what does everyone think of allowing Pantodapoi Phalangitai to be recruited everywhere you can't already recruit basic infantry (ex. Egypt's Machimoi, the Greek states' hoplites) and adding Pantodapoi Toxotai, Psiloi & Hippeis (fodder-level native archers, skirmishers & cavalry respectively) to regions that don't already have an equivalent to these units (ex. the Asiatikoi Hippeis)? That should allow everyone to recruit a decent variety of native troops even without Hellenization.

This is what Barry suggested and I feel it addresses everything you brought up. So you have access to all basic Hellenic units now.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

So do I have to change anything then?