RSIII problems and bugs

[Quintillius]

Indeed, I can easily create 4 or 5 army stacks, while 2 are sufficient to deal with Capua, Regium and Carthage.
But my experience of RSII 2.2 is that I needed to save money for expensive buildings. I could easily spend all money each turn to buildings and troops and I found mercenaries pretty expensive. So something must have gone wrong.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Income per turn is currently +35,000 denarii. I have two full army stacks. This is an overview:




+15,000 denarii per turn sounds much more reasonable. 20,000 income reduction / 58,000 tax income = 35%. So lowering taxes with 35% should be good.

*** Does anyone know how to reduce tax income easily?

[Ragimund Von Wallat]

reduced lag AND the regular give me white trees,just to be clear.i reinstalled my good ol' 2.5 and 2.6 to see and its something new to 30 because the 2 others versions trees appear normaly.

[~Seleukos.I.Nikator~]

There is still way too much money for 1-turn Rome. I have 50,000 denarii now. Are you sure income is reduced by 25% and not increased with 50%? =p

I suggest to double costs of armies and multiply costs of ships (biremes especially) by 10.
Or maybe it's because I do not build expensive stuff yet.

I agree with that. In my 1-turn Arveni campaign I've been able to virtually continuously commission building projects, and some of them the more expensive ones, in all of my settlements since the very start of the game.

Now, after approximately 45 turns, I can easily keep my tax level at medium, or in some cities even at low, maintain three full army stacks with the high proportion of elite troops among them, while still having decent income at the end of the day.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Looking at these figures one can easily arrive at the conclusion that there's too much income generated in taxes.

EDIT: To keep the right balance of the game I believe that at this stage the tax income shouldn't be any higher than the costs of the army maintenance, or given that these figures correspond with the medium tax level, it should even be lower than that.

[LoGaL]

Of course you can keep up with that production, the effect of the treasury when you have low provinces and few enemies is MASSIVE: half of your taxes come from gergovia

[Papirrus]

The garrison script is designed as a loop, it will therefore keep on spawning enemy units every single turn as long as the siege is maintained. To trigger that event one must, however, press the 'end turn' button as this is the only chance for the script to check whether the event is true, or false. It is thus not possible to have the garrison units spawned in the same turn that you lay the siege. That's basically the whole idea behind having this script. First you need to lay the siege, then wait at least one turn and then attack.

I'm familiar with garrison script from others mods and understand how its work. Is activated there only once and this is good enough. And maybe only in M2TW is possible to make script work when siege start. This loop implementation have some specific problems. As I mentioned befor causes CTD or make fighting AI in AI turn useless. Your army suffer casaulties without benefits. So when AI decide attack logic thing is quit battle. Fighting is only for fun. But when you enjoy battle you must keep eye how much casaulties is inflicted on enemy because CTD. There are another implications and questions but if team had loop script intetion I won't bother them.

[~Seleukos.I.Nikator~]

I'm familiar with garrison script from others mods and understand how its work. Is activated there only once and this is good enough. And maybe only in M2TW is possible to make script work when siege start. This loop implementation have some specific problems. As I mentioned befor causes CTD or make fighting AI in AI turn useless. Your army suffer casaulties without benefits. So when AI decide attack logic thing is quit battle. Fighting is only for fun. But when you enjoy battle you must keep eye how much casaulties is inflicted on enemy because CTD. There are another implications and questions but if team had loop script intetion I won't bother them.

What kind of garrison script do you use? I've never really experienced having CTD's specifically due to the garrison script. Also, since you are already aware of the fact that there'll be additional forces spawning in the settlement you must ensure that you bring with you an army large enough to tackle it. If the AI attacks you at its turn, then probably it reckons that it has a chance to win it, otherwise it would just let you maintain the siege. Once it tries to break the siege make sure that there are no many survivors escaping the battlefield since then you will just simply take the settlement in the AI's turn upon winning your battle.

[dvk901]

I'm baffled about this whole garrison script thing because I barely touched them except to correct a couple incorrect units. But I'll do a comparison to the old 2.6 files and see if I goofed something up.
As far as income goes, I changed nothing in the 0-turn campaigns, and did indeed lower income in the one-turn campaigns. But bear in mind that factions will do very well economically in their 'home' or 'sphere of influence' regions. This has been characteristic of RSII all along. But when you start expanding outside those areas, income will drop considerably.

[Alavaria]

There's a missing texture for Athens, when using the "Levy Pikeman" unit

It tries to find data/models_unit/textures/tone/sparta/pandotaipoi_phalangites_macedon.tga

Will crash when you have a battle with this unit. (I simply changed the "sparta" to "macedon" above, so the unit now looks like Macedon's)

[~Seleukos.I.Nikator~]

But bear in mind that factions will do very well economically in their 'home' or 'sphere of influence' regions. This has been characteristic of RSII all along. But when you start expanding outside those areas, income will drop considerably.

I am actually quite curious about the mechanics of this taxation system within and beyond 'the sphere of influence'. Can you, please, elaborate on it a bit, or just direct me to a place where this had been elaborated on before?

[Ragimund Von Wallat]

its simply hidden ressources that make the aor..if you build goodies out of that zone you wont get the bonus,you can see the differents zone maps in important stuff folder.(if i am mistaken please someone correct me)

[~Seleukos.I.Nikator~]

its simply hidden ressources that make the aor..if you build goodies out of that zone you wont get the bonus,you can see the differents zone maps in important stuff folder.(if i am mistaken please someone correct me)

Yeap, I know of areas of recruitment, but have these also any economical significance? Or is it just down to the cultures into which all the settlements are divided?

Either way, I would like to know a little bit more of the mechanics behind this system and their impact on the economy.

[Alavaria]

The main differences that comes to mind is that in "your home area" your market line gets trade bonuses, while outside they only get tax bonuses. Meanwhile the tax building line (which I tend not to build) will give you less or even no tax bonuses outside "your home area".

[Papirrus]

... Once it tries to break the siege make sure that there are no many survivors escaping the battlefield since then you will just simply take the settlement in the AI's turn upon winning your battle.

Please read my post 113. I describe there such battle ending. Script create units befor city is sized and probably this make CTD. My army try enter to occupied city.

[ur-Lord Tedric]

.................
I don't really understand the scale, why are these particular standards ? To match with what the game provides ?

Because: this is how Roman armies were organised and managed; is how they can be represented and used in the game; and is linked to the economy, how many you can afford and, ultimately, the 60, or so, legions that Rome ultimately had at the height of their power in the 2nd Civil War.

Go look up some old figure-gaming examples - and I am that old!

[~Seleukos.I.Nikator~]

The main differences that comes to mind is that in "your home area" your market line gets trade bonuses, while outside they only get tax bonuses. Meanwhile the tax building line (which I tend not to build) will give you less or even no tax bonuses outside "your home area".

Interesting..., thanks for that explanation @Alavaria! So what exactly defines "the home area" for each faction?

[~Seleukos.I.Nikator~]

Please read my post 113. I describe there such battle ending. Script create units befor city is sized and probably this make CTD. My army try enter to occupied city.

Yes, I've just read it now. It doesn't seem to me that your ctd's are down to the garrison script. The only thing that the garrison script does is to spawn the garrison units in the settlement upon siege and you don't actually get any ctd at the time of the script performing that action. You get ctd upon taking enemy's settlement and that's different story, not really script-related, I believe.

[dvk901]

There's a missing texture for Athens, when using the "Levy Pikeman" unit

It tries to find data/models_unit/textures/tone/sparta/pandotaipoi_phalangites_macedon.tga

Will crash when you have a battle with this unit. (I simply changed the "sparta" to "macedon" above, so the unit now looks like Macedon's)

Thanks, found and fixed.

I am actually quite curious about the mechanics of this taxation system within and beyond 'the sphere of influence'. Can you, please, elaborate on it a bit, or just direct me to a place where this had been elaborated on before?

Interesting..., thanks for that explanation @Alavaria! So what exactly defines "the home area" for each faction?

If you look in the important_stuff folder under aor maps, you'll see this file:

AOR_Legions2_map.JPG

It shows how the map is divided up into various 'areas'. These are used for both economic and unit recruitment purposes. If a faction starts in a certain 'area' that is their 'area of influence'.
Outside that area, economic bonuses drop off. This is why factions will tend to make a lot of money in their starting territories, but less and less as they expand.

Please read my post 113. I describe there such battle ending. Script create units befor city is sized and probably this make CTD. My army try enter to occupied city.

I am going to check the scripts. Thanks.

[Alavaria]

Yes, I've just read it now. It doesn't seem to me that your ctd's are down to the garrison script. The only thing that the garrison script does is to spawn the garrison units in the settlement upon siege and you don't actually get any ctd at the time of the script performing that action. You get ctd upon taking enemy's settlement and that's different story, not really script-related, I believe.

This is actually a problem which is part of the RTW engine, if I remember right. The whole "took a settlement because the people inside sallied/were reinforcements and died, letting you walk in at the start of your turn" crash, that is.

Whenever I hit it, it's always safe if you back off (ie: don't siege) and take it some other time... of course this is annoying as the AI basically gets defended by a bug but eh...

[dvk901]

This is actually a problem which is part of the RTW engine, if I remember right. The whole "took a settlement because the people inside sallied/were reinforcements and died, letting you walk in at the start of your turn" crash, that is.
Whenever I hit it, it's always safe if you back off (ie: don't siege) and take it some other time... of course this is annoying as the AI basically gets defended by a bug but eh...

So what you're saying is...you siege a city, then end turn, and then see the city is full of units. THEN siege, but not when the city is empty?

[Alavaria]

No, the problem is when the following happens
1. Lay siege to city
2. Press end turn
3. (ON AI turn) the AI garrison comes out as reinforcements and loses badly
4. Your army then "walks in" to the empty settlement
5. CTD

The main way to not get this is to just assault via siege weapons pretty much. Or use forts and tricks to ensure the enemy can't do anything.


=================

The second issue (which should not CTD) is regarding garrison additions, as follows:
1. Lay siege to city
2. Press end turn
3. Ai garrison sallies, or comes as reinforcements and is beaten but not destroyed
4. Garrison script will fill up any empty slots in the garrison

======================

Again, the main way to avoid this annoyance is to just assault immediately with siege weapons.