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Thread: New units, what do you guys think about units with unhistorical helmet and such?

  1. #1
    Mr_Nygren's Avatar Berserkir
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    Default New units, what do you guys think about units with unhistorical helmet and such?

    I am about to add new units to WotN, as i want to fill out the roster. But what do you guys think about un-historical helmets on some of the new units? I am no modeller yet.. So i have to borrow from other mods. That means some of the models i may wanna add doesn't have an historical helmet. Is this a big problem?

    I want a female unit as an example. And i found a cool one with a more mythological look.
    Be your friend's, true friend. Return gift for gift. Repay laughter, with laughter again
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  2. #2

    Default Re: New units, what do you guys think about units with unhistorical helmet and such?

    For me there can be units with un-historical helemts, but I think female unit is bad idea. And please for a start change look of frankish peasants, they are from vanilla.
    Last edited by preussen6; April 20, 2016 at 02:37 PM.

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    Default Re: New units, what do you guys think about units with unhistorical helmet and such?

    Quote Originally Posted by preussen6 View Post
    For me there can be units with un-historical helemts, but I think female unit is bad idea. And please for a start change look of frankish peasants, they are from vanilla.
    But there were norse women fighting for their homes when the men were away raiding. It is true however that they didn't follow men on raids. But the unit has chainmail and stuff, so it's more than a simple peasant. That's not historically correct me thinks. But i like women, and thought it would fit the mythology, with Valkyries and stuff.

    But well, it may not be historically correct with viking women in chainmail. Yes, the franks have some vanilla-units. Is everyone different coloured Byzantine-units?
    Last edited by Mr_Nygren; April 21, 2016 at 01:42 AM.
    Be your friend's, true friend. Return gift for gift. Repay laughter, with laughter again
    but betrayal with treachery.

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    Default Re: New units, what do you guys think about units with unhistorical helmet and such?

    Valkyries were purely mythical.
    there are a few mentions of Shieldmaidens. seems mostly to be asociated with daughters of legendary/mythical petty kings. they would hardly be armoured, possibly except a helmet. their function on the battlefield would be more towards moral boost rather than actual fighting skill.
    Hr. Alf han hugg til han var mod, Han sto i femten Ridderes Blod; Så tog han alle de Kogger ni Og sejlede dermed til Norge fri. Og der kom tidende til Rostock ind, Der blegned saa mangen Rosenkind. Der græd Enker og der græd Børn, Dem hadde gjort fattig den skadelige Ørn.
    Anders Sørensen Vedel

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    BarnicleBill1's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: New units, what do you guys think about units with unhistorical helmet and such?

    If you add some, possibly fill out the rest of the Anglo/Saxon roster.

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    Default Re: New units, what do you guys think about units with unhistorical helmet and such?

    Quote Originally Posted by absinthia View Post
    Valkyries were purely mythical.
    there are a few mentions of Shieldmaidens. seems mostly to be asociated with daughters of legendary/mythical petty kings. they would hardly be armoured, possibly except a helmet. their function on the battlefield would be more towards moral boost rather than actual fighting skill.
    Yes, that's true. The unit is a "Shield Maiden"-unit- but they look more alike to valkyries.
    Be your friend's, true friend. Return gift for gift. Repay laughter, with laughter again
    but betrayal with treachery.

    - The Havamal

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    Default Re: New units, what do you guys think about units with unhistorical helmet and such?

    Quote Originally Posted by BarnicleBill1 View Post
    If you add some, possibly fill out the rest of the Anglo/Saxon roster.
    The saxons aren¨t a part of WotN unfortunately, as the british isles aren't present on the map. So i won't add saxon units i am afraid. But i may give the saxons of TLK some improvements in a submod there.
    Be your friend's, true friend. Return gift for gift. Repay laughter, with laughter again
    but betrayal with treachery.

    - The Havamal

  8. #8

    Default Re: New units, what do you guys think about units with unhistorical helmet and such?

    there are actually some Saxon units in WOTN aswell, they are used by the Franks. these are supposed to be continental Saxons that were subdued by Charlemange. these were supposed to be the somewhat afordable and also to be used for any Saxon rebelion occuring during WOTN time-frame. though i do not think we ever got to make any script for such historical rebelion.

    these unit i initially made as insular Anglo-saxons, made for a mod set in the british isles. their research and roster are based on Anglo-Saxon society and military.
    as any of my own units they are free to be used by anyone, for anything.
    Anglo-Saxons
    The roster
    Fyrd(levy) units:
    Gebur - lowliest "free man".
    armour: no armour.
    shield: simple shield, no boss.
    weapon: javelins and axe.

    Kotsetla - "middle class" farmer.
    armour: initially no armour, upgrade with cloak and helmet.
    shield: bossed simple shield, upgrade with covered bossed shield
    weapon: axe

    Geneat - rich farmers.
    armour: initially no armour, though has cloak. upgrade with helmet.
    shield: bossed covered shield.
    weapon: spear and saex.

    the 2 upgrades are not really meant to be armour upgrades, just wealthier people of bigger settlement.
    unless it is possible to use armour upgrade levels 0 to 0, i will either need to bump all armour up one level or remove upgrades.
    possibly i should give Gebur saex as secondary and Geneat javelins as primary with secondary spear.
    all these 3 units belong to the Ceorl class, which simply means (free) man. i used the divisions of this class as a means to have a varied levy roster. in real they would all 3 be considered Ceorls, although their bond and responsibility to their lord would vary and not always along the sub-class lines.

    Ceorls - free men
    armour: padded and helmet.
    shield: fancier bossed covered shield.
    weapon: spear - long saex.

    this would be the true upgrade to any of the Fyrd units, only available in big settlements with trade and industry. it is also the only low level unit that has some training and can use shield wall.
    while being considered Fyrd-worthy there are evidence suggesting the Ceorl class were not expecting to fight unless there were a threat looming. fighting was mainly the job of the Thegnly class of professional warriors. so if possible, recruitment of Fyrd units should result in rather severe decrease of happiness.

    Thanes:

    Spear Thanes
    armour: maile hauberk and helmet w/nasal guard, cloak.
    shield: nice painted shield.
    weapon: spears.

    Sword Thanes
    armour: maile hauberk and helmet w/nasal guard, cloak.
    shield: nice painted shield.
    weapon: swords.

    Eorls Thanes
    armour: maile hauberk and helmet w/nasal guard, cloak.
    shield: nice painted shield.
    weapon: spears - swords.

    Kings Thanes
    armour: padded and maile hauberk and helmet w/nasal guard, cloak.
    shield: nice painted shield.
    weapon: spears - swords.

    Thanes are the backbone of the Saxon armies. Through extensive training towards what is their purpose, these men has specialised in weapon-play, they do not halt to draw a secondary weapon.
    The Eorls and Kings Thanes are a bit more vague in game purpose though their existence is attested. if possible to set different bodyguard for leader/heir and ordinary generals, then that is what they will be i suppose. perhaps either one will be made a cavalry unit, though i am uncertain.

    Special units:
    Theow - slave.
    armour: no armour.
    shield: no shield.
    weapon: javelins and saex.

    not being considered Fyrd-worthy these are to be used only in garrison script when a settlement is attacked.

    i have lost most of my mod-files due to a HDD crash and what is left of this roster is what i put into WOTN.
    Hr. Alf han hugg til han var mod, Han sto i femten Ridderes Blod; Så tog han alle de Kogger ni Og sejlede dermed til Norge fri. Og der kom tidende til Rostock ind, Der blegned saa mangen Rosenkind. Der græd Enker og der græd Børn, Dem hadde gjort fattig den skadelige Ørn.
    Anders Sørensen Vedel

  9. #9
    BarnicleBill1's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: New units, what do you guys think about units with unhistorical helmet and such?

    They were always some of my favorites!

    Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk

  10. #10
    Mr_Nygren's Avatar Berserkir
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    Default Re: New units, what do you guys think about units with unhistorical helmet and such?

    Quote Originally Posted by absinthia View Post
    there are actually some Saxon units in WOTN aswell, they are used by the Franks. these are supposed to be continental Saxons that were subdued by Charlemange. these were supposed to be the somewhat afordable and also to be used for any Saxon rebelion occuring during WOTN time-frame. though i do not think we ever got to make any script for such historical rebelion.

    these unit i initially made as insular Anglo-saxons, made for a mod set in the british isles. their research and roster are based on Anglo-Saxon society and military.
    as any of my own units they are free to be used by anyone, for anything.
    Anglo-Saxons
    The roster
    Fyrd(levy) units:
    Gebur - lowliest "free man".
    armour: no armour.
    shield: simple shield, no boss.
    weapon: javelins and axe.

    Kotsetla - "middle class" farmer.
    armour: initially no armour, upgrade with cloak and helmet.
    shield: bossed simple shield, upgrade with covered bossed shield
    weapon: axe

    Geneat - rich farmers.
    armour: initially no armour, though has cloak. upgrade with helmet.
    shield: bossed covered shield.
    weapon: spear and saex.

    the 2 upgrades are not really meant to be armour upgrades, just wealthier people of bigger settlement.
    unless it is possible to use armour upgrade levels 0 to 0, i will either need to bump all armour up one level or remove upgrades.
    possibly i should give Gebur saex as secondary and Geneat javelins as primary with secondary spear.
    all these 3 units belong to the Ceorl class, which simply means (free) man. i used the divisions of this class as a means to have a varied levy roster. in real they would all 3 be considered Ceorls, although their bond and responsibility to their lord would vary and not always along the sub-class lines.

    Ceorls - free men
    armour: padded and helmet.
    shield: fancier bossed covered shield.
    weapon: spear - long saex.

    this would be the true upgrade to any of the Fyrd units, only available in big settlements with trade and industry. it is also the only low level unit that has some training and can use shield wall.
    while being considered Fyrd-worthy there are evidence suggesting the Ceorl class were not expecting to fight unless there were a threat looming. fighting was mainly the job of the Thegnly class of professional warriors. so if possible, recruitment of Fyrd units should result in rather severe decrease of happiness.

    Thanes:

    Spear Thanes
    armour: maile hauberk and helmet w/nasal guard, cloak.
    shield: nice painted shield.
    weapon: spears.

    Sword Thanes
    armour: maile hauberk and helmet w/nasal guard, cloak.
    shield: nice painted shield.
    weapon: swords.

    Eorls Thanes
    armour: maile hauberk and helmet w/nasal guard, cloak.
    shield: nice painted shield.
    weapon: spears - swords.

    Kings Thanes
    armour: padded and maile hauberk and helmet w/nasal guard, cloak.
    shield: nice painted shield.
    weapon: spears - swords.

    Thanes are the backbone of the Saxon armies. Through extensive training towards what is their purpose, these men has specialised in weapon-play, they do not halt to draw a secondary weapon.
    The Eorls and Kings Thanes are a bit more vague in game purpose though their existence is attested. if possible to set different bodyguard for leader/heir and ordinary generals, then that is what they will be i suppose. perhaps either one will be made a cavalry unit, though i am uncertain.

    Special units:
    Theow - slave.
    armour: no armour.
    shield: no shield.
    weapon: javelins and saex.

    not being considered Fyrd-worthy these are to be used only in garrison script when a settlement is attacked.

    i have lost most of my mod-files due to a HDD crash and what is left of this roster is what i put into WOTN.
    Yes, they are already added as mercs for the Franks and others- but they can only be hired in Frankish territory.
    Be your friend's, true friend. Return gift for gift. Repay laughter, with laughter again
    but betrayal with treachery.

    - The Havamal

  11. #11
    Mr_Nygren's Avatar Berserkir
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    Default Re: New units, what do you guys think about units with unhistorical helmet and such?

    I am going to add the Roman siege equipment of the De Bello Mundi-mod to the Franks as well. They had all that stuff the Romans had, as they were pretty much the new Roman Empire.
    Be your friend's, true friend. Return gift for gift. Repay laughter, with laughter again
    but betrayal with treachery.

    - The Havamal

  12. #12

    Default Re: New units, what do you guys think about units with unhistorical helmet and such?

    If you ask me I'm against the use of non-historical helmets.

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    ~ Patronized by Gaius Baltar, son of the Great Family of imb39, of the House of Garbarsardar, of the Noble House of Wilpuri.

  13. #13
    Mr_Nygren's Avatar Berserkir
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    Default Re: New units, what do you guys think about units with unhistorical helmet and such?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nelduin View Post
    If you ask me I'm against the use of non-historical helmets.
    Okay, i may not use unhistorical units. But we'll see, as i don't know how to use 3D-programs yet for M2tw yet.

    I have downloaded Milkshake 3D and read about some stuff, but haven't really tried anything yet. 3DSMAX doesn't work on my computer after i followed a guide here on this forum disabling most of the modern computer interface. I shouldn't have done that, but i thought it would speed up the computer. Now it's much more troublesome to mod.

    I have another computer for that also, but it is not fast enough for M2TW:K, as it takes ages to start up the game.

    I have been working on another mod last week, and this week i was too lazy to work on anything. But we'll see.
    Be your friend's, true friend. Return gift for gift. Repay laughter, with laughter again
    but betrayal with treachery.

    - The Havamal

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