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Thread: The Pope is a giant tool (again)

  1. #1

    Icon6 The Pope is a giant tool (again)

    Playing as Milan, minding my own business, quietly expanding, dealing with various greedy neighbours coveting Corsica and Sardinia, and sending the Pope regular back-handers to keep him sweet. We had the College of Cardinals locked down and one of our own installed as Pontiff (and as quite a young man so he would be in there for many hears) and with plenty of high-Piety priests about the place it was going to stay that way for a long time to come.

    The only fly in the ointment was that the Papacy had allied itself with Spain, who'd taken up the cudgels against us about the time we finally got Sicily to sit down and shut up. No problem, the odd Papal army wandering about the place was left to do its own thing. Then the Spanish attacked one of our own ships and there was a Papal States fleet adjacent to the pair of us. So he turns up as part of the attacking side and I couldn't even flee the combat.

    Moments later the Pope is yelling at me, all my Papal favour has disappeared and I'm excommunicated, and I'm frantically searching for some way to placate him...

    The Council assembles and regretfully informs Duke Puccio that he needs to do the decent thing for the good of the State. So our leader bids his tearful family farewell and goes to find a sword to run on. It's a near thing at that as he is quite badass, but eventually he manages to get the enemy to kill him. The Pope, however, is quite unmoved; Milan remains excommunicated and at war with the Papacy.

    A little later a Papal army turns up outside Tunis, and Our Man In Rome craves an audience with His Holiness to say, amid the desperate palm-greasing with florins and so on, "Say, why don't we make you a gift of this valuable conquest of ours?". The Pope exclaims with delight "You truly have our best interests at heart! We accept!". So Tunis turns white, our army of occupation is standing on the seashore with their bags packed, we offer a few more routine bribes and then say "How about a ceasefire?".

    "Nope".

    Over the next few turns we fork over increasing amounts of specie to the permanently-insolvent Church, we build cathedrals, we refrain from attacking our neighbours... and the Papacy turns up outside Algiers and Florence and we're close to rage-quitting the campaign. Fortunately it turns out that the Papacy can't assault for toffee and when the Pope himself tries to solo Naples we see him off with a couple of units of Milanese spears although he doesn't stay on the field long enough to get killed.

    Back to Our Man In Rome and we throw bag after bag of florins at the Throne until we finally get our relationship with the Papal States all the way up to "Perfect", and then we offer money, trade rights, map information and yet another region in exchange for a ceasefire and manage to get the proposal all the way up to "Balanced", and this from a 7-influence Diplomat.

    "Nope".

    Muttering something about a game of soldiers, the Milanese saturate Rome with spies until the gates are guaranteed to be open, and then the former conquerors of Tunis land on the beach along with some reinforcements they picked up in Palermo and rudely barge in to stick the Pope's head on a pike. Just before doing so we inform the Papal States that they can whistle for the thousand-florin-per-turn-for-ten-turns tribute we had promised them, and they exclaim about what an untrustworthy bunch we are, if you please.

    In the ensuing Papal elections the Milanese cardinals swamp the voting chamber and a new Milanese Pope replaces the old one, although his new palace will be a rather humbler seat in Tunis and we are having Rome extensively redecorated. And our excommunication has been scrubbed and we are top of the totem pole for now.

    Silly Pope.

  2. #2
    Frunk's Avatar Form Follows Function
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    Default Re: The Pope is a giant tool (again)

    That was a good read.

  3. #3

    Default Re: The Pope is a giant tool (again)

    Thank you!

    And if a little self-advertisement is in order, here is some other stuff I wrote.

  4. #4
    Habelo's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: The Pope is a giant tool (again)

    lol i have played numerous playthroughs and i have never seen the pope going nuts attacking wildly catholic factions and wanting to conquer. But he is doing that right now for me.

  5. #5
    misafeco's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: The Pope is a giant tool (again)

    If you're the first who allies with the pope this won't happen. It's incredibly hard to make a ceasefire with him once you're at war.

  6. #6

    Default Re: The Pope is a giant tool (again)

    Yes, I don't remember seeing any Papal diplomats wandering about the place who might have been willing to start talks on their own account.

    The Pope had already captured Tripoli as well - that was where the besiegers of Tunis came from. Odd army, nothing but ballistae, and I'd have given them a good hiding if it weren't for my unwillingness to take arms against the Bishop of Rome. But being a good repentant Catholic over something that wasn't my fault in the first place didn't work out.

    Still, the winners write the history books, and I shouldn't wonder but what the Cardinals and the new Pope managed to unearth some evidence that the sadly-deceased predecessor was an impostor all along. (We have a "Secretly Female" cardinal over in Arguin who is still waiting her turn to become "Pope Joan")

  7. #7
    General Maximus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: The Pope is a giant tool (again)

    I just gave you a +rep. This was hilarious.

    Personally, my rivalries and wars with Popes never last long. I am swarmed by Crusaders or Inquisitors depending upon who I am playing. Crusaders are beatable, but inquisitors are like a living plague.

    In the end, the best thing to do is to eliminate everyone in the world, including Papacy. Once that happens, no more Popes to bother you.
    सार्वभौम सम्राट चत्रवर्ती - भारतवर्ष
    स्वर्गपुत्र पीतसम्राट - चीन
    महाराजानाभ्याम महाराजा - पारसिक

  8. #8

    Default Re: The Pope is a giant tool (again)

    Glad you liked it! In-character, I'm always aiming to be a good Catholic, avoid excommunication, and never go to war with the Pope. It's rather like in Shogun in which Lord Toronaga explains at one point that it's not a question of whether his army could defeat the Mikado's in battle: there is no way he is raising a hand to the Son of Heaven and if it ever comes out that the Mikado himself appears on the battlefield then the war is already lost. Sadly however this time the Pope just would not have it any other way.

    At least he has been peaceful enough since we installed the new one, and we have been channeling a steady supply of money his way, as well as calling for and completing Crusades, to see that he stays so. England, Portugal and the HRE are all excom at present, but we are being very good.

  9. #9

    Default Re: The Pope is a giant tool (again)

    I was getting ready to make a thread about the Pope, so let me share it here instead.

    Hungary has a very interesting starting position (can border Poland, HRE, Byzantines, Venice, and Rus'ians). Plus, they're close to the Holy Land, and they're the first line of defense for Christendom against the infidel Turks, Mongols, and Timurids (Egypt is pretty fly with us all the time). And they have a neat color scheme.

    So my goal here is to keep Christendom united, turtle as much as possible, and just wait for Mongols+Timurids. I like allying with Poland, cause they're awesome and it keeps my northern border safe, and so I marry into their family on like turn 2. Everything is going swell, and I grab Iasi, Sofia, and Zagreb - with Sofia acting as my only castle. Then boom, the crap hits the fan.

    Now usually the HRE likes to pick on me, but this time it was Venice. They just exterminate Zagreb (which I occupied, cause I'm a good guy) and so I occupy it back as soon as possible. After that, this huge conflict on Zagreb evolved, and it was probably occupied, sacked, and exterminated multiple times by myself and Venice until finally I got enough soldiers to keep it. The whole time, I am expecting them to be excommunicated since I'm all pious and whatnot, but the Pope does nothing. And when I go to retaliate or take back Zagreb/Durazzo, the Pope threatens to excommunicate me! Like wtf?

    Anyway, somehow I dodge the Pope's threats and soon Zagreb and Durazzo are mine and I pushed to Venice and took it too - so Venice is contained to their little island they got somewhere. Then Milan attacks me. And HRE! What in god's name! I'm trying to keep Christendom together! I need to expel these armies out of my land but Pope will be all mad at me if I try it.

    Eventually I just say screw it. I send some professional troops (Pavise Spearmen, Knights, and Balkan Archers) which cost a lot of damn upkeep to Greece, hitch a ride with some mercenary pirate dudes, and sail straight around the Italian boot heel and up to Rome's beaches. I killed the death out of the Pope, then I pushed to Florence and beat the hell out of the councilor dude who was sitting around there (I guess he wasn't compelled to help the Pope lol). The cool thing is, the new pope was the Polish pope - and this dude loves me! I'm like, the star pupil in the Polish Pope's eyes! So I call a crusade for Iconium, and things get set.

    I besiege Iconium with a new professional army (the first one is bee-boppin' in Italy and making sure Germans and Italians don't get the jump on me). I like to siege as long as possible to let the other crusader armies close in too, but they never arrive. Soon, Iconium is mine. I decide to ally with Byzantines and help against the Turks, who are jihading Constantinople. I even derailed this huge jihad force for them and we had about 2 joint operations against the Muslims, which was cool (I watched like 150 Byzantines own about 600+ Turks before I could even arrive with my army!). Ultimately, though, the Byzantines are losing ground, and I can't move my army to far from Iconium. So I guess they get desperate and Byzantines turn on me - and take Kiev (idk wth they were doing up there to begin with) from me.

    Anyway, Mongols come blastin' off the steps and tear the Turks a new one, and take Jerusalem. Then they come to Iconium and I repel over a 1000 Mongols with only a few units of Town Militia. I decide to just give Iconium to them and go back to Hungary, where I am now facing the brunt of Rus'ian, HRE, Milanese, Byzantine, and Venetian armies.

    idk where the new popes hide their blistered asses at the moment, but if they exo me again I will hunt them down and kill them, then give their land to the Mongols.

  10. #10

    Default Re: The Pope is a giant tool (again)

    lol. I have several times handed the Papacy a hot potato when, for instance, I tried to take Jerusalem peacefully and it turned out I couldn't pacify the population at all, but I'm definitely chuckling here at the idea of sending a diplomat over to the Mongols and saying "Yo, Great Khan, fancy taking over Rome? Lovely city with all found and some interesting remains" and he's all "yeah, whatevs".

  11. #11

    Default Re: The Pope is a giant tool (again)

    And now, with the Milanese campaign put to bed, I've taken care early on to get the Pope allied with my Danes, and what should happen as I'm sending Toke the Merchant south to investigate the Italian marble trade, but...

    A f@cking Papal Inquisitor just fried my Merchant for heresy!

    This guy really strains the definition of "Ally"...
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  12. #12

    Default Re: The Pope is a giant tool (again)

    Lol. A blasphemous merchant... who'd have thought?

  13. #13

    Default Re: The Pope is a giant tool (again)

    "Listen, I'd got a lovely new shipment in and all I said was 'This bolt of silk is good enough for Jehovah!' ".
    Now available for Kindle: Dreams of Flight; Sidewinder Precision Pro; Pieces of Eight. If you like fantasy, space opera or pirate fiction, be prepared for a page-turner! ... if you don’t pick up this book and read it, you should have your head examined.

  14. #14

    Default Re: The Pope is a giant tool (again)

    Stop! Stop, will you?! Stop that! Stop it! Now, look! No one is to stone anyone until I blow this whistle! Do you understand?! Even, and I want to make this absolutely clear, even if they do say 'Jehovah'.

  15. #15
    Foederatus
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    Default Re: The Pope is a giant tool (again)

    Blasphemy

  16. #16

    Default Re: The Pope is a giant tool (again)

    This is so funny because I had a campaign just like that once. I was playing as Spain, and I accidentally ended up at war with the pope because his fleet happened to be next to a Milanese fleet that attacked me, and he was allied with Milan. So i'm of course excommunicated and it's open season on Spain. Nothing I could do would get the pope to agree to a ceasefire. And he's fairly young by pope standards so I'm gonna be stuck in this situation for a long time. So finally I decide to send my best assassin, Domingo the Killer, marching over to Italy from Spain, and he successfully assassinates the pope in Rome. Best thing about this was, the top cardinal was a Spaniard and he won the ensuing election. So not only does my excommunication end, but the new pope is my best buddy, a nice patriotic Spaniard, and he starts excommunicating countries that attack me.

    I love the pope system in this game, the politics around it are such a fun variable.

    In my current game as Venice, I'm having bad luck with the pope.

    The previous pope was one of my own Venetians and he was a great pope for my interests. I mean, sure, he asked me to stop fighting a Catholic kingdom now and then, but not too much, and he seemed to also ask them not to fight me because they would stop attacking me for a while during those periods. My main Catholic enemy is the Holy Roman Empire. The Venetian pope eventually excommunicated them for attacking me, so I could wage war on them freely and I was even getting ready to ask the pope to declare a crusade against them. But then that pope died of old age, and it was election time.

    The candidates were a Hungarian, a Sicilian and a Spaniard. Hungary is at war with me and allied with the HRE, so I definitely didn't want their guy to win. Spain only had one vote assured for their guy, and besides, Spain is at war with my ally France. I have an amicable relationship with Sicily though, and their guy, Niccolo the Corrupt, seems to stand a good chance. So my two cardinals vote for Niccolo. It's a close thing. The Sicilian gets the votes of my cardinals and the two Sicilian cardinals. The Hungarian gets the vote of the Hungarians and their Imperial allies. The Spaniard only gets his own vote.

    The Hungarian wins, and he hates my ass. He's been making life impossible for me ever since he became pope. I've been doing my best to butter him up with gifts (which isn't easy because my economy is in the chamber pot right now due to an endless and draining three-front war with the Byzantine Empire, Hungary and the Holy Roman Empire), but he's not having any of it. Over and over he keeps telling me to stop attacking the HRE; meanwhile the HRE keeps blockading my ports, and I can't even fight back lest I be excommunicated. I did manage to finally take Bologna (which I should have done long ago, but most of my military has been fighting the Byzantines and it's been hard to go on the offensive in the west) during a brief interval between the pope's ceasefire commands, but as of right now i'm paralyzed again by another one, and there's a huge Imperial army approaching Bologna right now.

    This pope is only like 52 right now, so i'm currently training up an assassin to do away with him, practicing on rebel captains and the like. The top cardinal is another Sicilian, and I have more cardinals to vote this time around.
    Last edited by Iosif Stalin; July 13, 2017 at 05:50 PM.

  17. #17

    Default Re: The Pope is a giant tool (again)

    Crap, I didn't mean for that to be a big wall of text. I divided it into paragraphs, but it turned out as a block. There's also no edit option to fix it. Sorry.

  18. #18
    ♔atthias♔'s Avatar dutch speaking
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    Default Re: The Pope is a giant tool (again)

    Quote Originally Posted by Iosif Stalin View Post
    Crap, I didn't mean for that to be a big wall of text. I divided it into paragraphs, but it turned out as a block. There's also no edit option to fix it. Sorry.
    you can only edit your posts after 25 posts
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  19. #19

    Default Re: The Pope is a giant tool (again)

    Quote Originally Posted by atthias View Post
    you can only edit your posts after 25 posts
    Ah ok, thanks. I'll fix it when I hit 25 then. Only got like 6 to go after this one.

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