Research Thread: Khwarezmian Empire and Iranian vassals states

[Muramasa1794]

Starting with the Ghaznavids then Seljuks, Turkic influence began to spread into Iran(Persia). Even the languages began to to be intermingles with the Iranian language. Some of the clothing as well had an influence to the Persian population however, the Persian still wore their cultural clothing as well as having the Arabic influence due to the the Ummayyad and Abbasid inlfuences. Anushtegin Gharchai was the founder of the Khwarezmian Dynasty. He was a Turkic slave commander of the Seljuks and governor of Khwarezm. According to the campaign map the vassals are the Ghurids (of Eastern Iranian descent), the Bavanids (Iranians of Mazandaran Northwestern Iran), the Salghurids (Turkmen in orgin southwestern Iran) and lastly the Hazarapids (A Kurdish dysnasty also in southwestern Iran).



Feel free to comment and give ideas on aspects of the Khwarezmians such as armor, weapons and how they should appear in the game as well as their vassals. Here are some pictures from Persian miniatures that shows Turkic influence in clothing in Persia. Would hope the information here would be helpful the workers of this mod to use for the beta and final game for the Khwarezmians so if any of the modders happen to see this feel free to comment as well.

Persian Minatures
The Khwarezmians blended their culture with the Persians as most of the foreign dynasties did such as the Mongol Illkhanate, and Timurids. In several of these beautiful paintings (Persian artists such as the famed Ferdowsi and Baysunghur) you see these hats that have a point at the top which are known as Janjins, which Many Central Asian Turkic peoples wear as did the Mongols. As well as robes called deels, You'll also see tall hats called Kalpaks as well. Wearing boots as well was very popular as you can see in the paintings. The Turkic tribes normally wore boots due to the harsh weather for warmth, protection and horseback riding.

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Kalpak hat

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Janjin hats and elaborate Deel robes.

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Another example of a Deel robe.

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Persian Manuscript of Kwharezmian cavalry being watched by Genghis Khan at bottom.

[deus_eggs]

Bro. Sorry for not coming in with academic force and everything, but being from the region. As a Pashtun it is commonly agreed among us that the Ghurid kings were pashtuns (obviously not 100% but ruling) Ghaznavids were turkic-led with bulk local ethnic army who were arch-rivals of the Ghurids who eventually destroyed them and followed their path to looting india. following this the Khwarezms reclaimed their persian lands from Ghurids but eventually got obliterated by the mongols. This is a common cyclical occurence throughout ancient to recent history in the region. Some Pashtun tribes claim turkic origins like "Ghaljay" tribe to Khilij turks etc. Whatever the answer, one thing is for certain, many people who came to Afghanistan over the years became Pashtunized. It is a phenomenon that occurs with all ethnic groups (Tajik, Hazara, Uzbek) that they conform somewhat to Pashtunwali and local dress after living in the mountainous highlands. The Pashtuns have uncertain origins, but our tribes can be traced to the Hephtalite (xyionite) hordes of huns. Alexander even interacted with our tribes and recorded their names, one of them being "Ebodal" referring to our Abdal tribe.Point being, we are often historically just classified as "some kind of eastern iranian group" but we have a distinct language, history, and way of life that have been active in the region since antiquity. If its not too burdensome to research, I'd be amazed if you could pay attention to this detail.

[Muramasa1794]

Bro. Sorry for not coming in with academic force and everything, but being from the region. As a Pashtun it is commonly agreed among us that the Ghurid kings were pashtuns (obviously not 100% but ruling) Ghaznavids were turkic-led with bulk local ethnic army who were arch-rivals of the Ghurids who eventually destroyed them and followed their path to looting india. following this the Khwarezms reclaimed their persian lands from Ghurids but eventually got obliterated by the mongols. This is a common cyclical occurence throughout ancient to recent history in the region. Some Pashtun tribes claim turkic origins like "Ghaljay" tribe to Khilij turks etc. Whatever the answer, one thing is for certain, many people who came to Afghanistan over the years became Pashtunized. It is a phenomenon that occurs with all ethnic groups (Tajik, Hazara, Uzbek) that they conform somewhat to Pashtunwali and local dress after living in the mountainous highlands. The Pashtuns have uncertain origins, but our tribes can be traced to the Hephtalite (xyionite) hordes of huns. Alexander even interacted with our tribes and recorded their names, one of them being "Ebodal" referring to our Abdal tribe.Point being, we are often historically just classified as "some kind of eastern iranian group" but we have a distinct language, history, and way of life that have been active in the region since antiquity. If its not too burdensome to research, I'd be amazed if you could pay attention to this detail.

Yeah you are right, I forgot they were Pashtuns of Afghanistan area. But you have to remember they are also in apart of the Iranian group. Many of there ancestors were Persians who fled the Arab conquests. That is why around North of India they have a lot of lighter skinned Indians and people who still follow Zoroastrianism. Of course the Hepthalites and Greeks had some influence in the region as well. Believe it or not even the Tang Dynasty in China had a strong influence in Afghanistan primarily in the Kashgar region. They actually had built a fort there.

Mughal Pashtuns defeating a rebellion and executing the leader Khan Jahan Lodi who was also Pashtun in Afghanistan.










Painting of Persians surrendering to the Mughals and the Pashtun soldiers.

[Kjertesvein]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...adshahnama.jpg

Who ever made that image had an eye for detail. Looks amazing.

EDIT: Source

~Wille

[Lucem Mundum]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...adshahnama.jpg

Who ever made that image had an eye for detail. Looks amazing.

~Wille

It's truly amazing! I especially love the commander's knee guards.

[Kjertesvein]

This looks pretty exciting. So, do anyone here have suggestion for a possible units for these factions? I'm just curious, because in Stainless Steel, the Khwarezmian Empire felt a bit... generic and bland to me. Sure, all factions have both unique and generic units, but that faction felt like a placeholder. For example Armored Horsearcher. Ok? Who are these elite guys? Why should I care about them? What is their identity? Did they have a signature or characteristic about these particular unit? Perhaps interesting art work on shields and colorful clothing can help bring in some fresh air. Hopefully the clothing in that picture from above combined with Attila graphics can bring that aspect to life, because that one looked pretty awesome. Perhaps interesting unit names that relate to a particular region within the empire? Auxilliaries from transoxania, northern Chinese refugees, bavandids slingers or India longbow mercenaries? Anyway, keep up the good work guys. I'm looking forward to Persian -esque factions.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

~Wille

[Lucem Mundum]

Here is an image

[dogukan]

A lot of awesome drawings here!

[LinusLinothorax]

You guys should also write the date plus the place where the paintings have been drawn, because remember: In the Middle Ages artists dont researched historical armours and fashion, but just took contemporary ones.
I am wondering: Do we have any pre-Timmy paintings similiar beautiful and detailled?

This looks pretty exciting. So, do anyone here have suggestion for a possible units for these factions? I'm just curious, because in Stainless Steel, the Khwarezmian Empire felt a bit... generic and bland to me.

As far as i am aware, the most detailed / historical accurate Khwarezmian roster till date has been done by Broken Crescent. However, i wouldn't swear by my mother on its historical accuracy, because in that perspective, for example the Makurian roster wasn't the creme de la creme either.

[Muramasa1794]

You guys should also write the date plus the place where the paintings have been drawn, because remember: In the Middle Ages artists dont researched historical armours and fashion, but just took contemporary ones.
I am wondering: Do we have any pre-Timmy paintings similiar beautiful and detailled?


As far as i am aware, the most detailed / historical accurate Khwarezmian roster till date has been done by Broken Crescent. However, i wouldn't swear by my mother on its historical accuracy, because in that perspective, for example the Makurian roster wasn't the creme de la creme either.

Yeah some of those photos were during the IlKhanate or Timurids. I agree that Broken Cresent really had a detailed representation of the Khwarezmian Army. Here's the link to the mod site honga:
http://www.honga.net/totalwar/unit.p...guard_khwarezm

[Muramasa1794]

Here is an image

Real authentic painting. Seems to be during the Ilkhanate period.

[LinusLinothorax]

Real authentic painting. Seems to be during the Ilkhanate period.

No, its late Timurid:
https://www.davidmus.dk/en/collectio...es/art/42-2006

[Syphax Numid]

I think we should figure out, that between the period of Khwarezmian Empire and Safavid Empire are some years in which mongols ruled persia...
So there is a big distance between each empires. Look at these miniature:

It's from Ilkhanid Periode (1300 AD). Your miniatures are mainly Timurid or Safavid,so this is much older...

[Muramasa1794]

I think we should figure out, that between the period of Khwarezmian Empire and Safavid Empire are some years in which mongols ruled persia...
So there is a big distance between each empires. Look at these miniature:

It's from Ilkhanid Periode (1300 AD). Your miniatures are mainly Timurid or Safavid,so this is much older...

Yeah you can tell from the facial features. This most likely was during the early years of the Illkhanate.

[Muramasa1794]

These are example of the type of armor the Khwarezmians wore. They also had similar armor to the Seljuk Turks of Rum as they were as well Turkic in origin.

[hessam]

Most of the miniature posted in this thread actually depict Persian mythology as described in the Persian epic poem "Shahnameh" (you can actually see parts of the poem inscribed on the pages). However, Shahnameh was written in the early eleventh century and most Shahnameh-related miniatures were added at least a couple of centuries after that, so it's safe to say that there are definitely some contemporary visual elements implemented into the miniature. But still, they do NOT describe contemporary events, personages, or armies.

The historical work closest to the Khwarezmid period is Rashid-ad-Din's "Compendium of Chronicles" or "Jami' al-Tavarikh" written in the early 14th century during Ilkhanate rule (Rashid-ad-Din was actually a vizier of the Ilkhanate). Dozens of historians worked on that project, while Rashid ad-Din was kind of like the editor who supervised the whole thing. As the name suggests, this huge book covers the history of the world, even the Franks for instance, though periods closer to the author's time have been naturally described with more detail and confidence. There are quite a few interesting miniatures in that book which are definitely much more reliable. Unfortunately, in most versions that are easily accessible the miniatures are kinda worn out and not easy to make out. But I remember seeing one in Tehran National Library which had the miniatures carefully recreated. I'll try to get a better look (and perhaps take a few photographs) if I visit Tehran anytime soon.

In the meantime, I recently came across a promising Farsi doctoral dissertation about the structure of the court and the army in the Khwarazmid Empire. I've emailed the author and asked for a copy, but he's yet to respond. If he happens to let me take a look at his work, I'll translate the useful bits and post them here.

[zsimmortal]

Hello everyone, I have taken over development of the Khwarazmian dynasty for the MKTW project. Since this thread already has some quality content, I figured I'd use it as a place to accumulate material. Needless to say, the swift fall of the empire following the start date means I'll need to be a bit creative. While I've got some ideas down, I'd really appreciate some info, either from text or from illustrations. Thanks to hessam's post, I've already found some illustrations that are contemporary to the period (http://www.warfare.altervista.org/Pe...kh-1305-14.htm).

The things I'm mostly interested in is the development of the various groups within the empire over the 3 centuries the game tries to cover, namely the Iranians that served the Il-Khans, the Kurds of the Hazaraspids and how involved the Pashtuns were in the Khwarazmian army. If possible, any information regarding possible mercenary work or help from the Mamluks of Delhi and their subjects would also give some possible additional diversity to the army of the Khwarazmian empire.

Beyond that, just general information regarding the composition and look of the army of Ala ad-Din Muhammad would be amazing, but that's where most of my own research will be.

Finally, language is also something I'm very interested. I'm leaning towards general use of Classical Persian as the linguistic flavour of the Khwarazmians, but anything about language I will look seriously into.

Thank you for any help!

[hessam]

I'm glad the information was useful. Unfortunately, the book itself wasn't available for loan in the National Library.

The official language, to begin with, was indeed Persian, while Kipchak (Qapchaq) was also spoken. Have in mind that the Persian spoken in that period was heavily influenced by Arabic. I can definitely help you with the names and stuff like that.

But considering the period the mod is set in, the Ilkhanate were much more important than the Khwarazmid and there's definitely much more information about them than there is about the Khwarazmids.

I can also give you the starting information about the royal family tree.

[Roman Heritage]

While not a vassal, the Eldiguzid Atabeghate of Azerbaijan during the rule of Uzbek fell increasingly in Khwarezm's sphere of influence. Basically, it had become kind of a cushion State between Georgia and the Khwarezmshah's, and fell in the latter's hands in 1225 - shortly before the Mongol invasion. If anything, in-game Khwarezmshah's can use them as a buffer against Thamar of Georgia, and to recruit Eldegezler - Azeri heavy cavalry, as Bellum Crucis, a mod for M2TW, puts it. Here's the description of the unit:

"Proud sons of Azeri lands, these men represent the elite of the armies of Azerbaijan's atabeghs. The Eldigizids or Eldiguzids are a turkic tribe of Kipchaks settled in Northern Iran and Eastern Caucasia; though their overlords (atabeghs) are formally vassals to the Seljuk Sultan, they are as a matter of fact absolute overlords of their lands. At their greatest height, towards the end of XIIth Century, the Eldigizids ruled over a large kingdom bordering Georgia and Shirvanshah. Heavily armoured, Eldigizids are disciplined and fearsome warriors, able to launch fearsome charges."

[zsimmortal]

I'm glad the information was useful. Unfortunately, the book itself wasn't available for loan in the National Library.

The official language, to begin with, was indeed Persian, while Kipchak (Qapchaq) was also spoken. Have in mind that the Persian spoken in that period was heavily influenced by Arabic. I can definitely help you with the names and stuff like that.

But considering the period the mod is set in, the Ilkhanate were much more important than the Khwarazmid and there's definitely much more information about them than there is about the Khwarazmids.

I can also give you the starting information about the royal family tree.

Thanks for the support. I'll bounce some stuff in here when I'm further into the faction building part (currently into the early research part), so your help will be greatly appreciated.

Two things I want to start off with :

- How accurate would be the terms Khwarazmshah and rah-e abrisam to denote the title of the Khwarazmid monarchs and the Silk road respectively?

- Reading on Babur's military campaigns, one thing I took special notice of is how he raised 'tribal' soldiers. Since both the Khwarazmians and Babur's possessions (in Afghanistan) share some social and geographical similarities (Babur was closer to Pashtun groups while the Khwarazmids' power base was closer to groups further North), how much could a Khwarazmian ruler depend on Turkoman or other 'tribal' groups as part of his army?