Azeroth Total War

**Pathfinder** · May 09, 2016, 08:15 AM

I've tweaked a few of my hypothetical rosters to fit Medieval II, and written some explanations/origins for my choices. I've only bothered to do this for WoW's playable races (except Gilnean worgen and Pandaren), plus a couple of others like ogres and human bandits.

A few notes:

· These are racial rosters - Dark Irons don't have any fire elementals for instance. Its not that I don't want them to have any 'allied' units.

· I have attempted to stick to the lore and concept of the races regardless of WoW's playable classes. That means no orc warlocks fighting for the Horde or human shadow priests for the Alliance. They exist, but not in an official capacity - they are adventurers, villains and outcasts, but not part of society. The night elf military is gender-divided again and druids are totemic.

· Many units did not make the cut. Marines are just footmen on ships. Hydromancers are not different enough from regular human mages. Gnome priests and high elf druids are rare. There are many reasons why I haven't included them.

· I don't like unique units, so there aren't any for factions of the same race and culture (for example, Stromgarde and Dalaran, but not Wildhammers and Dark Irons).

· No consideration has gone into making the races balanced or how they would play - again, this is from a lore perspective.

· I've tried to go with as many unique names as possible. I don't usually like mods that do this but anything else doesn't seem to fit Warcraft. Names like 'spearmen', 'axemen', 'archers' and such are as limited as they can be.

· Though there are no units like 'veteran footmen', 'heroic grunts', or even 'Northshire clerics', I don't object to units that vary in quality only.

Human kingdoms

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Human bandits, pirates and renegades

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Bronzebeard dwarves

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Dark Iron dwarves

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Wildhammer dwarves

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Gnomes

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High elves

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Blood elves

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Forsaken (Many WC3-era Scourge units are included. Seeing as they still maintain control over Abominations -which are both artificial and dim-witted- and considering Banshees’ mind control powers, they have likely retained various types of undead)

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Orcs

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Jungle Trolls

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Ogres

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Tauren

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Goblins

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Night elves (all women unless noted)

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Furbolg

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Wildkin

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Worgen

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**jim501** · May 09, 2016, 12:18 PM

That's quite the detailed roster,good work!

Though I would suggest some slightly different ones like the mountain kings belonging exclusively to Broznebeards lorewise, some rpg classes seem kind out of place ,some Forsaken units were mostly exclusive to the Scourge, and some variation within the human kingdoms but otherwise I think it is a good layout.

**Pathfinder** · May 09, 2016, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by jim501

That's quite the detailed roster,good work!

Though I would suggest some slightly different ones like the mountain kings belonging exclusively to Broznebeards lorewise, some rpg classes seem kind out of place ,some Forsaken units were mostly exclusive to the Scourge, and some variation within the human kingdoms but otherwise I think it is a good layout.

Wildhammers, Dark Irons and Bronzebeards all have 'thanes', and there are Dark Irons with identical fighting styles (save for their Avatar ability - Thaurissan has a flame one). I think separating racial units rather than ones based on technological or magical differences to be gamey. If you wanted a separate unit to represent WC3's unit exactly I would suggest Avatars ('Dwarven avatar' is an RPG class based around their stoneskin ability). I didn't include them as I figured they would fall under Mountain Kings.

As for the Forsaken roster, I feel it gives them their WC3 undead feel back. I don't see why intelligent undead like shades, nerubians and frost wyrms would necessarily return to the Lich King - even Cult of the Damned members have been said to have rebelled in the RPG. What makes undead humans and high elves special after-all?

**jim501** · May 10, 2016, 04:39 AM

Originally Posted by Pathfinder

Wildhammers, Dark Irons and Bronzebeards all have 'thanes', and there are Dark Irons with identical fighting styles (save for their Avatar ability - Thaurissan has a flame one). I think separating racial units rather than ones based on technological or magical differences to be gamey. If you wanted a separate unit to represent WC3's unit exactly I would suggest Avatars ('Dwarven avatar' is an RPG class based around their stoneskin ability). I didn't include them as I figured they would fall under Mountain Kings.

As for the Forsaken roster, I feel it gives them their WC3 undead feel back. I don't see why intelligent undead like shades, nerubians and frost wyrms would necessarily return to the Lich King - even Cult of the Damned members have been said to have rebelled in the RPG. What makes undead humans and high elves special after-all?

Im not sure, the rest have "thanes" but not the same as mountain kings which even in the player guides are described as being Bronzebeard only while the only similar Dark Iron is their leader.
I think it makes their roster more unique if they have special units. ( I dont really get the "gamey" comment on racial units though).

As far as Forsaken are concenred my comment referes to crypt fiends,crypt lords,wyrms,liches and gargoyles because lorewise they were only found in Northrend and only made by the Lich King.
Their WC3 units had them for gameplay purposes, Blizzard just reused the Scourge roster because they were undead as well.
Plus if Forsaken have them it makes them very similar to the Scourge, while this way they can be differentiated by being the more humanoid based undead faction.
It's not that humans-elves are special, it is they were the majority of Sylvanas army during the rebellion and are the only source of corpses to reanimate at the timeline.

Of course Banshees,abominations, bats etc and the rest of the roster are present both in WC3 and WoW so I think they are perfect.

I have some roster ideas, for the human kingdoms like Stromgarde and Dalaran (stormwind roster is excellent) that can offer some good variety while also exhibiting the character of said kingdom without being very similar to each other.
If you are interested I can write them later at night that I will have time, just to give some ideas and can pick whichever you deem good.

**Pathfinder** · May 10, 2016, 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by jim501

Im not sure, the rest have "thanes" but not the same as mountain kings which even in the player guides are described as being Bronzebeard only while the only similar Dark Iron is their leader.

I like the RPG fluff a lot but I try to take it with a grain of salt. The RPG frequently says that certain classes are mostly or even uniquely of one or two races, then goes on to contradict that statement in a couple of paragraphs. The Alliance Player Guide says the Dark Irons may have their own version of Mountain Kings, even after saying they are exclusively Bronzebeards. It is after-all described as an ancestral style of fighting. Seeing that Wildhammers are so fond of stormhammers I don't think that much of a stretch that they all have them - I'd even include the Frostborn. It isn't a magic school, but a fighting style that fits the race's concept.

Originally Posted by jim501

I think it makes their roster more unique if they have special units. ( I dont really get the "gamey" comment on racial units though).

For example, I originally had Conjurers and Brotherhood Knights as unique units for Azeroth/Stormwind, Marines and Hydromancers for Kul Tiras and so on. But even these are just boring, 'upgraded' units no different from 'Stromgarde Footmen'.

Gilneas got cannons as a unique unit and things started to feel wrong - how come no other human faction could ever get this type of unit? Why does Stormwind get better knights than Lordaeron? Medieval 2's rosters are silly - Scotland isn't allowed crossbows, Egypt isn't allowed heavy infantry, only Spain and the Turks gets javelins. I've come to prefer historical (or in this case lore) units with nothing cut or 'buffed' for the sake of unique gameplay.

Originally Posted by jim501

As far as Forsaken are concenred my comment referes to crypt fiends,crypt lords,wyrms,liches and gargoyles because lorewise they were only found in Northrend and only made by the Lich King.
Their WC3 units had them for gameplay purposes, Blizzard just reused the Scourge roster because they were undead as well.
Plus if Forsaken have them it makes them very similar to the Scourge, while this way they can be differentiated by being the more humanoid based undead faction.
It's not that humans-elves are special, it is they were the majority of Sylvanas army during the rebellion and are the only source of corpses to reanimate at the timeline.

Of course Banshees,abominations, bats etc and the rest of the roster are present both in WC3 and WoW so I think they are perfect.

Maybe that is the case - I do consider the possibility of units being in the RTS only for gameplay's sake (forest trolls on Draenor!). But Nerubians were in Lordaeron at this time, and from what I gathered it was a question of mental strength that decided who stayed under the Lich King's control. Considering their hate for the Lich King I doubt they would have refrained from to changing sides. I don't suggest having them be common under the Forsaken - only the possibility of having them. Gargoyles and bone spiders are just beasts - so far from Northrend I imagine they can be influenced by any necromantic power.

Originally Posted by jim501

I have some roster ideas, for the human kingdoms like Stromgarde and Dalaran (stormwind roster is excellent) that can offer some good variety while also exhibiting the character of said kingdom without being very similar to each other.
If you are interested I can write them later at night that I will have time, just to give some ideas and can pick whichever you deem good.

I will happily consider them. I do consider the kingdoms and clans to have different characters, but again, restricting units like Total War games do in the name of uniqueness does not sit right with me.

**jim501** · May 10, 2016, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by Pathfinder

Gilneas got cannons as a unique unit and things started to feel wrong - how come no other human faction could ever get this type of unit? Why does Stormwind get better knights than Lordaeron? Medieval 2's rosters are silly - Scotland isn't allowed crossbows, Egypt isn't allowed heavy infantry, only Spain and the Turks gets javelins. I've come to prefer historical (or in this case lore) units with nothing cut or 'buffed' for the sake of unique gameplay.

Well I personally like unique units because
1) it is a game after all so even if they are gamey they are fine within that context.
2) they add variety and character to factions
3) it isnt far fetched from reality. (for example horse archers or even heavy armored horse archers were almost exclusively used in eastern armies,zweihander weapons were also motly used in European armies etc.)

For example in the Second War the only Kingdom with access to paladins was Lordaeron since they originated from there.
Similarly Gilneas had cut all ties with them and likely never had a paladin order of their own.
Also Stormwind having better knights isnt far fetched either since they can just have a superior breed of horses or better trained and equipped troops.

Originally Posted by Pathfinder

Gargoyles and bone spiders are just beasts - so far from Northrend I imagine they can be influenced by any necromantic power.

First time I hear about bone spiders honestly

My comment about Gargoyles or Obsidian statues is again mostly because they are native to Northrend and therefore only the Lich King has access to them.
Perhaps if there is a limit to the number of units that the Forsaken have at any given time
this can be both lore-friendly and give them more units

I will post some some more detailed roster suggestions later at night since I have some work in the meantime.

**jim501** · May 10, 2016, 02:32 PM

Here are my suggestions with a few notes.

1) I havent given the humans any gunpowder units for now,in case Darrowmere wants a more "pure" medieval aesthetic. Otherwise, I would suggest 1 cannon and 1 musketeer unit for all human nations except Dalaran.
2) the names are mostly completely descritpive and not quite imaginary on my part

3) any units with "?" next to them are units that I dont really know if they fit or not so they are mostly a throwaway idea.
4) any holy priest unit offers morale bonus, I thought the same for Paladins but that would make them too OP I think.
5)The elven cavalry uses horses in my idea as I am not too fond of chicken cavalry

Also, the hawkstriders were created solely so that 2 playable races wont share the same mount and since there exists a horse for high elves (quel'dorei steed), I think it is faithful lorewise.

Stormwind

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Stromgarde

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Gilneas

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Blood Elves

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Bronzebeard Dwarves

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**Darrowmere** · May 10, 2016, 07:25 PM

Hey guys good work on factions there i'll lay down my views on rosters and cover whats been mentioned.

I like the idea of certain subservient races (Dark Iron Empire and Dark Horde) having their most elite units as Fire Elementals/Flamewalkers and Black Dragons/Chromatic Dragons but having them as only trainable in Blackrock depths and spire.

This mod will stick to factions traditional classes. Eg:
Paladins for Stormwind, Khaz Modan, Scarlet Crusade and Quel'thalas.
Shamans for Durotar, Frostwolf Clan, Warsong Clan and Wildhammer Clan.
Druids for United Tauren, Night Elves and Gilneas.

Each faction should have a couple unique units atleast if not a mostly unique roster so that each faction has a different feel.

Flying units are not a possibility and the only exception would be that Gryphons could be made like cavalry on the ground for Wildhammer.

Forsaken's roster should reflect the WoW so include undead humanoids, abominations, banshees, and dark rangers. They should have undead humanoids as most of their units much like human factions have humans as most unit types. The reason i feel no other undead species should be part of their faction is that none are shown in WoW, the fiends are loyal to their traitor king (Anub'arak) who remained loyal to the Lich King and helped save him in Warcraft TFT.

Unsure on Mountain Kings and Thanes. Thinking of making one unique to Khaz Modan and the other to Wildhammer. But i'll think on it.

Frosthold will be the one place any dwarven faction can train Frostborn. Although it will be given to Khaz Modan upon the Lich Kings awakening.

Gunpowder will be limited to Khaz Modan, Dark Iron Empire, Trade Coalition, Gilneas and Scarlet Crusade. But the ranged gun units will not have far superior damage to archers and same with gunpowder seige weapons. It is essentially just a cosmetic difference.

Never was a fan of the Hawkstriders. Quel'Dorei steeds for High Elves and Blood Elves sounds good. Excluding Blood Knights with their Thalassian Chargers/Warhorses.

Sorry if i missed anything.

**Pathfinder** · May 10, 2016, 10:16 PM

I can't say I agree with your rosters Jim, but I think its because we've approached from different angles. You've tackled the weaponry and armour first, whereas I've thought first about 'character class'. Yours is more medieval, and mine is a more fantastical. If humans have axes, they need an axe unit - from a thematic view I disagree.

In regards to humans I don't have any problem with militia spearmen or foot knights, but object to cavalry being anything but knights or having horse archers. I imagine them as an Arthurian fantasy race, and peasant cavalry and fighting styles you wouldn't find in Ivanhoe clash with this. In other words I try to envision humans as a fantasy race with its own military style - where even the foot soldiers are knights, and the knights are super-knights.

WoW's take on humans has definitely moved away from this, with rifles, parachutists, a professional military with ranks and many more. Cataclysm's Gilneas isn't even a medieval society anymore. Most races have guns, even the elves and tauren. I can't help but want to stick closely to the original concept of the races.

As for faction 'character', I'd prefer to have it delivered by unique skins and model details. Gilneas having darker metal, maybe with an angular, mass-produced feel. Stromgarde being archaic with more horned helmets, furs and and axe-headed lances. Lordaeron (or in this case, Theramore) being shiny and minimalist. A tall order considering its a mod, but unique units take time too.

**MacCarthy** · May 11, 2016, 02:07 AM

When I think about the Dark Iron clan. They seem to be more about having enslaved beings to do their dirty work and they would rather to strike from the shadows than charge head-on.

Houndmasters w/ demon bloodhound mastiffs
Stone and dark iron golems
Fire elementals
Elite Assassin Dark Iron Dwarf melee like Rome:TW Arcani
Slavers with cannon fodder slaves
Perhaps gladiators recruitable only in BRD Ring of Law

**jim501** · May 11, 2016, 03:52 AM

Originally Posted by Darrowmere

This mod will stick to factions traditional classes. Eg:
Paladins for Stormwind, Khaz Modan, Scarlet Crusade and Quel'thalas.
Shamans for Durotar, Frostwolf Clan, Warsong Clan and Wildhammer Clan.
Druids for United Tauren, Night Elves and Gilneas.

Should Gilneas have druids since they werent really widespread or accepted prior to the Cataclysm ?

Originally Posted by Darrowmere

Flying units are not a possibility and the only exception would be that Gryphons could be made like cavalry on the ground for Wildhammer.

Are you certain ?
Call of Warhammer modeers managed to incorporate them
I thik they essentially used elephant units but made the ground part invisible and tweaked the top or something.
But I understand if you think they wont be easy.
Besides flying units arent the most important for me persoanlly.

Originally Posted by Darrowmere

Gunpowder will be limited to Khaz Modan, Dark Iron Empire, Trade Coalition, Gilneas and Scarlet Crusade. But the ranged gun units will not have far superior damage to archers and same with gunpowder seige weapons. It is essentially just a cosmetic difference.

Shouldnt the gun units have at least some more damage than archers ?
I can understand it however if most other factions dont have access to gunpowder.

Originally Posted by Darrowmere

Never was a fan of the Hawkstriders. Quel'Dorei steeds for High Elves and Blood Elves sounds good. Excluding Blood Knights with their Thalassian Chargers/Warhorses.

Basically I had 2 ideas.
Either :
1)give Quel'dorei steeds to all cavalry units
2) give low tier cavalry normal horses and reseve Quel'dorei steeds for upper tier (Lancers, Nobles,BLood Knights)
Essentially the Thallasian Chargers are Quel'droei steeds in armor.

That is done to showcase that the "superior" elven breed is rserved for more elite troops.

That is up to you to see which version you like most.

**jim501** · May 11, 2016, 04:10 AM

-deleted

**jim501** · May 11, 2016, 05:40 AM

Sorry for double post, I just didnt want to make one gigantic post.

Originally Posted by Pathfinder

If humans have axes, they need an axe unit - from a thematic view I disagree.

Can you explain this bit ,didnt quite catch it

Originally Posted by Pathfinder

In regards to humans I don't have any problem with militia spearmen or foot knights, but object to cavalry being anything but knights or having horse archers. I imagine them as an Arthurian fantasy race, and peasant cavalry and fighting styles you wouldn't find in Ivanhoe clash with this. In other words I try to envision humans as a fantasy race with its own military style - where even the foot soldiers are knights, and the knights are super-knights.

I also somewhat Imagined them like that, but still I thought some variation in cavalry would be interesting.
I dont really care for the militia cavalry for humans (I would liketo see them in elves though), but I would suggest in favor of bow aarchers for Gilneas.

My reasoning is this:
1)Variation in the rosters
2)Gilneas is based on a combination of England/Russia (architecture,troops' helmets) with the latter having horse archers in their armies so I thought they could be ideal for Gilneas.

Originally Posted by Pathfinder

WoW's take on humans has definitely moved away from this, with rifles, parachutists, a professional military with ranks and many more. Cataclysm's Gilneas isn't even a medieval society anymore. Most races have guns, even the elves and tauren. I can't help but want to stick closely to the original concept of the races.

I'm with you on this one, I never really liked how even the NPC's of the various races didnt at least stick to their iconic culture.

Originally Posted by Pathfinder

As for faction 'character', I'd prefer to have it delivered by unique skins and model details. Gilneas having darker metal, maybe with an angular, mass-produced feel. Stromgarde being archaic with more horned helmets, furs and and axe-headed lances. Lordaeron (or in this case, Theramore) being shiny and minimalist. A tall order considering its a mod, but unique units take time too.

I agree, I have some idea for the aesthetic of each kingdom, although as you saw I took it a step further with the rosters.
For me looks are important, but I didnt want to make them all just reskins, that's why I gave them some variation.
Thee reasoning behind the variation is also based somewhat on the character of each kingdom.

Stormwind for example is a rich kingdom which means it have the capabaility to arm their troops with a lot of armor hence the many heavy troops. They are also the only ones shown to have Paladins in contrast to Stromgarde which dint adopt and Gilenas which isolated itself and dint establish their own order.
Stromgarde and Gilenas are rich too, but not as much.
Stromgarde is a more war-like nation that's why I envisoned them as Gaul/Viking warriors.
Gilneas on the other hand gives a more Russian vibe.

It might be difficult to make, but the result will be quite satisfactory if mods like Third Age are anything to go by.

Here are a few more:

Dark Iron Dwarves

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Darskpear Trolls

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**Pathfinder** · May 11, 2016, 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by jim501

Can you explain this bit ,didnt quite catch it

I meant that just because humans have been shown to have axes doesn't mean they should have units of axemen. Orcs have bows, but should they have bow-equiped shaman? Of course I'm being facetious. I support starting with unit type, not weapon or armour.

Say one unit:
Myrmidons (but with what weapons? Various polearms mainly, but they're also frequently shown with two handed swords. A mixed unit of all then, if the animation would still work)

Not three:
Sword Naga, Spear Naga and Halberd Naga

If some weapons fall through the cracks here - axes, maces, small swords. I say ignore them, or have some as sidearms, rather than make new units to use them. I'd have armour be mixed too. That's why I have just 'Grunts', not 'Sword Grunts', 'Heavy Grunts' etc.

Originally Posted by jim501

I'm with you on this one, I never really liked how even the NPC's of the various races didnt at least stick to their iconic culture.

I agree, I have some idea for the aesthetic of each kingdom, although as you saw I took it a step further with the rosters.
For me looks are important, but I didnt want to make them all just reskins, that's why I gave them some variation.
Thee reasoning behind the variation is also based somewhat on the character of each kingdom.

Stormwind for example is a rich kingdom which means it have the capabaility to arm their troops with a lot of armor hence the many heavy troops. They are also the only ones shown to have Paladins in contrast to Stromgarde which dint adopt and Gilenas which isolated itself and dint establish their own order.
Stromgarde and Gilenas are rich too, but not as much.
Stromgarde is a more war-like nation that's why I envisoned them as Gaul/Viking warriors.
Gilneas on the other hand gives a more Russian vibe.

I'm glad we're basically on the same page, but I feel there's a problem with assigning real world countries to the varies races and factions. A little British visual influence for Gilneas is fine, and ideas for others are cool, but diverging their society and military I don't like (and didn't in Cata). Other than onion domes I never saw any Russian inspiration for Gilneas anyway. Their guards had darkened plate like Stormwind's in the beta, then changed them to gladiator-style armour which personally looked like it was Naga themed (its Vashj'ir gear too).

As a feudal people humans would arm themselves - I don't like the idea of 'state troops'. There's a snippet in the RPG that implies they do and they appear to own their gear at points in WC3 ("We'll fight for Lordaeron! Get your swords!") Admittedly recruits are shown in WotLK being given equipment. I imagine footmen running the gamut between rusty, half-plate and full plate depending on the individual's purse, but fighting side-by-side. Any less than that and they'd have to serve in some other manner.

And Stromgarde does have paladins, 'Stromgarde Vindicators' in the ruins outside the church. Kul Tiras also has paladins in TfT. That's not to mention paladins throughout WC2. Other than Gilneas (as it was arrogant and isolationist) I would argue that all human nations have them. Even then I don't mind the idea of Gilnean paladins.

**jim501** · May 11, 2016, 07:20 AM

Originally Posted by Pathfinder

I meant that just because humans have been shown to have axes doesn't mean they should have units of axemen. Orcs have bows, but should they have bow-equiped shaman? Of course I'm being facetious. I support starting with unit type, not weapon or armour.

Well, the shaman example is a little differnt since shamans are a specific clas within orc society and they dont have ranged weapons.
Anyway, indeed it doesntmean they should have but they could have since Stromagrde for example is "war-like" and the typical waepon for such a theme is the axe.

Originally Posted by Pathfinder

I'm glad we're basically on the same page, but I feel there's a problem with assigning real world countries to the varies races and factions. A little British visual influence for Gilneas is fine, and ideas for others are cool, but diverging their society and military I don't like (and didn't in Cata). Other than onion domes I never saw any Russian inspiration for Gilneas anyway. Their guards had darkened plate like Stormwind's in the beta, then changed them to gladiator-style armour which personally looked like it was Naga themed (its Vashj'ir gear too).

I mention real world countries mostly for the visual part honestly.
I prefer different aesthetics rather than the reskins that Blizzard used.
I use the character/theme of the nation in combination wit the existing armor they are portrayed to have and see which country fits that so that we can have concepts for armor varaition.

For example the Gilnean Guard armor reminds me of these:

That's why I talked about Russian influence.
I was thinking that the latter 2 especially would be very fitting for Gilnean heavy cavalry.

Originally Posted by Pathfinder

As a feudal people humans would arm themselves - I don't like the idea of 'state troops'. There's a snippet in the RPG that implies they do and they appear to own their gear at points in WC3 ("We'll fight for Lordaeron! Get your swords!") Admittedly recruits are shown in WotLK being given equipment. I imagine footmen running the gamut between rusty, half-plate and full plate depending on the individual's purse, but fighting side-by-side. Any less than that and they'd have to serve in some other manner.

Well, in medieval armies that is true, but again this is fantasy, and since Stormwind is quite rich they could have the money for it just like the Roman Empire which provided the equippment for their troops.
The only "state troops" I really would like to see personally are the Stormwind ones since they are always portrayed in uniform armor, that's why I have mentioned the rest of the kingdoms could have mix and match types of armors.

As far as WC3 is concerned remember 2 things:
1) that is Lordaeron
2)they just did because they wouldnt make an entire new texture just to show off recruit armor

Originally Posted by Pathfinder

And Stromgarde does have paladins, 'Stromgarde Vindicators' in the ruins outside the church. Kul Tiras also has paladins in TfT. That's not to mention paladins throughout WC2. Other than Gilneas (as it was arrogant and isolationist) I would argue that all human nations have them. Even then I don't mind the idea of Gilnean paladins.

I dont think they are supposed to reprsent Paladins.
They had the name Vindicators because Blizzard liked it, but changed it when Draenei came in and renamed them just "soldiers".

I personally didnt give them Paladins because I wanted to suggest for for the Royal Guard to be very heavy hitters and maybe offer morale bonus(?).That's why I had the idea to make them like the Diablo 3 crusader/barbarian horned armor sets with intimidating looks and big axes.

**Pathfinder** · May 11, 2016, 09:57 AM

I suppose we will have to agree to disagree, especially as we are beginning to go wildly off-topic and Darrowmere has his own ideas that sound pretty resolute.

My reasoning for sharing my rosters was partially to show how extraordinary difficult a whole WoW mod would be to model and texture. Jim's are no less ambitious. I don't mean to be a downer, but making a mod on this scale that would satisfy real fans is a herculean task and frankly futile. At the very least you'd need to start with very small, basic rosters for a few key races and build from there. I'm talking 5 or so units small.

**MacCarthy** · May 13, 2016, 12:39 AM

When I played the questline though Gilneas, the citizens seemed to use rapiers and firearms.
Gilneas is much more industrialized that other human factions. It's seemed to be a blend on early industrialized western Europe surrounded by Germany's Black Forest.
They had a sophisticated flair in clothing. The Conquistadors and HRE units would be a good place to start , pikes, crossbows and firearms.

**Vladyvid** · May 13, 2016, 03:08 AM

What a debate! Dont really want to interrupt but I just want to point out one thing regarding the possible roster for orcs - Peons - they are not a military unit and I think should not be included in any roster. They are the equivalent of human peasants but with a much worse social stigma - I imagine no orc would fight alongside any peon.

**jim501** · May 13, 2016, 05:08 AM

Originally Posted by MacCarthy

When I played the questline though Gilneas, the citizens seemed to use rapiers and firearms.
Gilneas is much more industrialized that other human factions. It's seemed to be a blend on early industrialized western Europe surrounded by Germany's Black Forest.
They had a sophisticated flair in clothing. The Conquistadors and HRE units would be a good place to start , pikes, crossbows and firearms.

These pictures show exactly how I imagined Kul Tiras to be like, being a naval nation and all that.
Or in this case Theramore which is built from Lordaeron refugees and Kul Tiras troops.

Originally Posted by Vladyvid

What a debate! Dont really want to interrupt but I just want to point out one thing regarding the possible roster for orcs - Peons - they are not a military unit and I think should not be included in any roster. They are the equivalent of human peasants but with a much worse social stigma - I imagine no orc would fight alongside any peon.

Well, I doubt many will miss them

I hadnt included them either in my hypothetical roster (havent written here for now).
Why dont you post an orc roster you would like t see and give ideas ?

**Pathfinder** · May 13, 2016, 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by Vladyvid

What a debate! Dont really want to interrupt but I just want to point out one thing regarding the possible roster for orcs - Peons - they are not a military unit and I think should not be included in any roster. They are the equivalent of human peasants but with a much worse social stigma - I imagine no orc would fight alongside any peon.

Ideally you'd have them only as a garrison unit, same with most of the similarly garbage, 'last ditch' units. You could get rid of them, but only if you did the same for peasants etc.

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