Dwarf's Zhufbar and Altdorf ITSELF have the exact same city layout (

[DavidtheDuke]

Found on the official forums, so I confirmed for myself:

https://youtu.be/9SFM6-LC6io?t=448

https://youtu.be/NMJm8tVsD9g?t=391

Just look at the minimaps. Lol.

http://i.imgur.com/k7UT2mC.jpg

Not deep, not wide, just same. haha.

Bleh.

I'm still going to preorder but this seems like a really bad sign of things to come, seems like refunding has a higher probability than every before.

[captainkrunch]

God I get what CA was trying to do and I approve simplification of sieges but this is just too much, they strayed WAY too far. Karaks are so boring and uninteresting looking too, nothing has any elevation..

[Markas]

Seriously doubt I'd notice or care, tbh. If they had the same building positions with reskins or the same room to manoeuvre yeah maybe. As long as they have enough variations so it doesn't get tedious.

[ToraktheNord]

I really don't give a . They have enough work to do with all them animations and models. Also, Zhufbar seems pretty bland, but the build is a couple of months old so I'm sure I can expect Altdorf quality at release.

[Boyar'sNephew]

No excuses for taking a wrong turn, then.

[paradamed]

"We only have 4 factions but we are developing them to perfection" some liar at CA

[Markas]

Wait, when did they say that?

[paradamed]

Wait, when did they say that?

Maybe not the exact quote but they did say that

[Abdülmecid I]

Wait, when did they say that?

He probably means Will's first comments about the game:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post14479029

I think that comment was why many were frustrated, when it was announced that different legendary lords don't mean different starting positions. But at theoretically, Will's statement is not inaccurate, since it (probably on purpose) is awfully short of any specific details. I suppose that it could be said that his comment was a bit misleading, in what concerns the difference between factions and "races", but I wouldn't call him a liar. After all, he focused more on skeletons and unit appearances, not city structures and starting positions.

[paradamed]

Yes, the comment of Will and also Joey was a bit misleading. I do hope that the game will follow the same developement model of R2TW in which case they added small variation to many factions (even those not part of some DLC).

I do have to emphasize that CA has lied to us before on many occasions regarding R2TW (remeber all teh lies about the perfect AI that Mcginley dude was bragging about on pre release videos?). I can say and repeat that the comments of the devs were at least misleading regarding to developement of WTW.

I just checked some video Total War relased today only to notice the dwarfs have almost no variation at all in their units. It is no big surprise the lack of creativity when it comes to the settlements.

[Markas]

Maybe not the exact quote but they did say that

Don't accuse others of being liars when you yourself are making stuff up. It doesn't help your case.

[paradamed]

Don't accuse others of being liars when you yourself are making stuff up. It doesn't help your case.

Im not accusing anybody pal. Im stating facts. I did not use the exact words they used, thats true and up to interpretation but they did state the factions would be "deeply developed" if that makes you happy. Using the exact same layout for 2 important capital cities speaks against that doesn it? Not to mention CA has a past that also speaks against THEIR case.

[Red Dox]

Just for the record
"OMG statetroops look ugly as hell, the game is doomed" --> Statetroops have a different look now.
"OMG Orcs have stinkclouds, the game is doomed" -->was stated that was a bug and should be fixed in actual build. Remember, teh Vampire Coverage is from an older build to.
"OMG Karaks have horrible lightning, we see notzhing, the game is doomed" --> stated that the lightnig is under development/will be fixed/is probably already fixed.

Yes, there should be concern about the "double map" for sieges. Yes, this concern should be voiced to some degree. That does not mean this problem will be final or is not already under development. Remember: It was an older build for Vampires. Who knows which build it was for Altdorf? Now saying they do not develop the factions deep enough because of this...THE GAME IS DOOMED!

-----Red Dox

[paradamed]

Just for the record
"OMG statetroops look ugly as hell, the game is doomed" --> Statetroops have a different look now.
"OMG Orcs have stinkclouds, the game is doomed" -->was stated that was a bug and should be fixed in actual build. Remember, teh Vampire Coverage is from an older build to.
"OMG Karaks have horrible lightning, we see notzhing, the game is doomed" --> stated that the lightnig is under development/will be fixed/is probably already fixed.

Yes, there should be concern about the "double map" for sieges. Yes, this concern should be voiced to some degree. That does not mean this problem will be final or is not already under development. Remember: It was an older build for Vampires. Who knows which build it was for Altdorf? Now saying they do not develop the factions deep enough because of this...THE GAME IS DOOMED!

-----Red Dox

I do hope so and agree with you. Empire troops , for example, look a LOT better right now.

I still am very concerned on lots of "shortcuts"taken by the devs as seen in the latest videos released by CA. I can name a few of them:

Repeated layouts as mentioned by the OP, instant appearing ladders instead of actual ladders as used in all other previous games, units with no shadows, gates that dont phisically react to attacks (in old RTW we already had gates that bounced when attacked. We only have less than 2 months to release.

[Markas]

Im not accusing anybody pal. Im stating facts. I did not use the exact words they used, thats true and up to interpretation but they did state the factions would be "deeply developed" if that makes you happy. Using the exact same layout for 2 important capital cities speaks against that doesn it? Not to mention CA has a past that also speaks against THEIR case.

Oh so it's a case of interpretation. Okay then. So how does having the basic layouts of two settlements run contrary to it being deeply developed? How does it make the game worse? Are the buildings in the same position, are they just reskined, are the streets the same width apart? Doesn't look like it. Without the minimap I sincerely doubt anyone would have noticed. Really, so what if two settlements have the same outline? As long as there are enough variations and the maps give plenty of room to fight a decent battle.

[paradamed]

Oh so it's a case of interpretation. Okay then. So how does having the basic layouts of two settlements run contrary to it being deeply developed? How does it make the game worse? Are the buildings in the same position, are they just reskined, are the streets the same width apart? Doesn't look like it. Without the minimap I sincerely doubt anyone would have noticed. Really, so what if two settlements have the same outline? As long as there are enough variations and the maps give plenty of room to fight a decent battle.

It is not only about the gameplay. Yes, it can be quite boring take the exact same routes again and again when attacking a settlement. Maybe you disagree, but for me it is not funny to attack teh same settlement with only a reskin.

When it comes to the lore it also makes no sense. I would not only expect the dwarven settlement to have a different layout but to also have stronger walls, multi walled settlements cause they are supposed to have stronger defenses than otehr factions.

And the worst thing is that in a decade old game like M2TW they managed to implement that but cant do this in 2016?

Unfortunately the casual players seem to be killing the franchise because they are happy with any bone CA throws at them!

[LionElJonson]

Because we've never seen any settlements have similar layouts in previous TW games, right?

Oh and for the record, Templehof, one of the other sieges shown during the information dump has a completely different map with two walls. I guess knee-jerk doomsaying is more enjoyable though, right?

smh

[Markas]

It is not only about the gameplay. Yes, it can be quite boring take the exact same routes again and again when attacking a settlement. Maybe you disagree, but for me it is not funny to attack teh same settlement with only a reskin.

The buildings and use of space is pretty different between the Altdorf and Zhufbar, i certainly couldn't tell the basic layout was the same. I doubt anyone else would have had it not been pointed out to them.

Still, as has been pointed out, it's just two settlements with the same layout. Not exactly news to get the pitchforks out over yet.

When it comes to the lore it also makes no sense. I would not only expect the dwarven settlement to have a different layout but to also have stronger walls, multi walled settlements cause they are supposed to have stronger defenses than otehr factions.

Actually I agree- Dwarfen Karaks need more work. The lighting was especially poor on the preview builds (I asked on the official forum and they claim it has been changed) and it just looked like a wall in the underground. Combined with the lighting I couldn't tell one from another.

Unfortunately the casual players seem to be killing the franchise because they are happy with any bone CA throws at them!

Total War is bigger that it ever has been so quite how it's killing the franchise will require some explanation from you. So far it's been the usual slew of complaints I've heard variations on for the past ten years- if they leave it the same, people complain. If they try something new, they complain. [insert new feature here] has doomed the game. The spear thickness is wrong.

As long as the game is fun I don't care. M2TW was the worst TW game at release but it was still fun so people give it a pass. R2 wasn't, so they didn't.

[Gnske]

People will actually defend this on CA's behalf.

Amazing, you can really tell who is trying to justify their pre-orders internally.

[Fritz45]

You know what they say...Some people don't accept the bad until it slaps them in the face.