Brussels, Paris and San Bernadino - A New Security and Social Order

[Vanoi]

Solve the war in Syria and Iraq, and these attacks should end. But good luck trying to end the war in Syria.

[Harith]

Solve the war in Syria and Iraq, and these attacks should end. But good luck trying to end the war in Syria.

I think it's already over. Offensives against ISIS are mounting in a simultaneous fashion both in Syria and Iraq as I predicted. Hopefully by the end of 2016, ISIS will be reduced to few sporadic holdings and pockets of influence.

Christianity has not invaded any muslim Country. There was no religious war against any Muslim Country.

You do realize that you are on a total war forum that also has the game Medieval Total War 2: Kingdoms Crusade right?

Why have the students not rised up against IS? ISIS was in the university, they still attend, knowing it is a legitimate target? These *students* might be colloborators.

They are not collaborators, they are civilians. Why did the civilians in France, Greece, Poland, Germany, Hungary, Belgium, Austria, etc not rise up against the Nazis?

In Egypt Islamists were trying to build their horror vision of an Islamistic dictatorship. After short a time of freedom (after Mubarak was toppled), Islamists were the most powerful Party. What an enlightment

Egypt was the most transparent in its history under the Muslim Brotherhood government. Although I do not agree with them, they conducted the most free and pluralistic election even by the standard of some European democracies and their government was legitimate.

[Meebleborp]

How about these people start hating themselves more? You can't sell weapons if none is buying, you can't support dictators when people establish democracies and half the bombing and invading was also asked for by people in the area and not a fanciful idea by Europeans or the US for that matter. If you haven't noticed Europe isn't actually very keen on invading or bombing anyone.

Even the US has come to the state that they get equal critcism if they bomb or not bomb a place. They now get ridiculed for not having started a full on invasion of Syria years ago but who would be the first one to whine about that if they had?

What?

"You can't sell weapons if none is buying" - With this logic, you can excuse selling weapons to anyone.

"you can't support dictators when people establish democracies" - Did you ever think that maybe the West's support of those dictators is what has prevented the people there from establishing democracies in the first place?

"half the bombing and invading was also asked for by people in the area and not a fanciful idea by Europeans or the US for that matter" - ..you're not actually serious about this, are you?

"They now get ridiculed for not having started a full on invasion of Syria years ago but who would be the first one to whine about that if they had?" - The only people I've seen criticize the West for not bombing are others in the West. The average person in the Middle East certainly isn't asking to have bombs dropped on their house.

[Border Patrol]

I sense some new contracts for Persistent Surveillance in the making.

[Mangalore]

What?
"You can't sell weapons if none is buying" - With this logic, you can excuse selling weapons to anyone.

Yup, also everyone selling weapons to you. Like the fact the majority of those countries have mainly Russian weapons. And China is getting into the market. But someow it's all the West's fault that AKs and RPG-7s are all over the place.

"you can't support dictators when people establish democracies" - Did you ever think that maybe the West's support of those dictators is what has prevented the people there from establishing democracies in the first place?

Given the Cold War it wasn't the case with half those dictators. You can cite Iran for the West actively sabotaging a democratic development. But there were a lot of dictators in the region the West wanted nothing to do with but somehow still got into power and remained there for decades. Saddam got a buckload of money from the west... but his regime was based on a socialist ideology like the Syrian one and they essentially bought him off the Soviet Union.

"half the bombing and invading was also asked for by people in the area and not a fanciful idea by Europeans or the US for that matter"

- ..you're not actually serious about this, are you?

Lybia, Mali, now the Iraqi government, the Syrian rebels wanted us to bomb Assad. Pakistan and Yemen essentially made agreements for the US to bomb people in their country. So yes, I'm serious. Other countries also asked for Western military aid to combat extremists = trainers, equipment and bombs.

"They now get ridiculed for not having started a full on invasion of Syria years ago but who would be the first one to whine about that if they had?" - The only people I've seen criticize the West for not bombing are others in the West. The average person in the Middle East certainly isn't asking to have bombs dropped on their house.

Plenty of Syrian refugees and rebels have complained about the West letting Syria suffer when even more military action is literally the only thing the West could do.



I mainly don't think this victim complex is getting the region and the people there anywhere and blaming the West is easy but ignores the actual complexity of the events. Oh, other countries behave like dicks? Guess what, they behaved like psychopaths all the millenia before so you are actually dealing with an improvement in behaviour.

[Odenat]

I mainly don't think this victim complex is getting the region and the people there anywhere and blaming the West is easy but ignores the actual complexity of the events.

Victim complex? You mean just like Europeans who were saying they are the victims of Muslims while millions of Muslims lost their life and their houses due to Western invasions&bombing campaigns?

You are accusing Muslims of blaming the West but isn't this whole forum full of Westerners blaming Muslims? And Westerners, instead of understanding the complexity of things, aren't accusing Islam?

Now, tell me, 25 years ago, when West did not yet invaded any Muslim country, was there a huge immigrant issue at Europe?

[mongrel]

Back in the old days there weren't any Muslims/terrorists in the West. Most were not allowed to immigrate, and, those few who were, had a big bullseye on them, and were afraid to show any hint of Islam. But in these immoral times we are too morally and intellectually weak to stand up for what is right. Have a look at what our utterly and totally emasculated leaders are up to.

Lies.
As always your post is fact -free.

There were loads of terrorist incidents of Arab origin and otherwise. Here's just a handful.

Munich September 5, 1972

Dutch bombing campaign September and October 1972

Palestinian attack on Athens Airport 5 August 1973

Iranian embassy siege.

This is how its done btw



The killing of PC Yvonne Fletcher 17 April 1984

The 1993 World Trade Center bombing (ffs that's not that long ago).

I suppose I could also dig up figures for Muslim populations in the US and EU during the 70s -90s. After all Mohamed Ali certainly is one. But out of pity, I will spare you the humiliation.

Christianity has not invaded any muslim Country.

We ought to have a Raspberry Award for the dumbest post on TWC


Never invaded the Middle East, what a joke.



One can safely say Britain and France invaded most Islamic Countries by the 1920s. The Italian holdings in North Africa and Dutch Indonesia covered most of the rest..

[StarDreamer]

Solve the war in Syria and Iraq, and these attacks should end. But good luck trying to end the war in Syria.

The hell? Islamists have been setting of bombs for way longer than the war in Syria has been going on. It is utterly moronic to think they would end with an end to war in Syria.

[Vanoi]

The hell? Islamists have been setting of bombs for way longer than the war in Syria has been going on. It is utterly moronic to think they would end with an end to war in Syria.

Did i sya it would stop all Islamist attacks? no. But it would be a great step in stopping IS-related terror attacks.

[mongrel]

Did i sya it would stop all Islamist attacks? no. But it would be a great step in stopping IS-related terror attacks.

Exactly.

[StarDreamer]

It might stop ISIS, but another group will just take its place, you've done nothing to stop the underlying ideology.

[Roma_Victrix]

It might stop ISIS, but another group will just take its place, you've done nothing to stop the underlying ideology.

I hope I'm wrong, but I have a feeling Wahhabism is here to stay. Even 500 years from now, when we've colonized the planet Mars and sent probes to other solar systems, we're still going to have some guy wearing a suicide vest screaming "ALLAH AKBAR" before exploding. There's no changing human nature. Unless of course we're all a bunch of human-machine hybrids and cyborgs by then with computer chips surgically implanted into our brains to make us chill the out, bro.

[PointOfViewGun]

Just make Wahabbism not profitable. See how it gets abandoned then.

[Knight of Heaven]

"Give me liberty or give me death."

“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

“Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves.”

“Better to die fighting for freedom then be a prisoner all the days of your life.”

etc., etc.

Or we could just adopt the (unofficial) NSA motto: give us metadata, or give us phone records!

I just have to, i cant resist, in face of such wonderous, and plenty quotations.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[swabian]

I hope I'm wrong, but I have a feeling Wahhabism is here to stay. Even 500 years from now, when we've colonized the planet Mars and sent probes to other solar systems, we're still going to have some guy wearing a suicide vest screaming "ALLAH AKBAR" before exploding. There's no changing human nature. Unless of course we're all a bunch of human-machine hybrids and cyborgs by then with computer chips surgically implanted into our brains to make us chill the out, bro.

Ohh that would be so nice. Permanent bliss!

But this won't happen of course due to bull ethics:
http://www.academia.edu/1217880/How_...leus_Accumbens

The hell? Islamists have been setting of bombs for way longer than the war in Syria has been going on. It is utterly moronic to think they would end with an end to war in Syria.

ISIS represents a peak of terrorst activity. It's very importamt to destroy them, becausse they are about to carve out state governed by terrorists.

[Infidel144]

Odenat said "And how will we do that? How many Muslim countries invaded by Christians at the last 20 years?"
When Gaiten responds with a denial, why are the usual suspects bringing up the Crusades? Did the Crusades happen in the last twenty years?

[Boyar Son]

Well said by the Israeli.

[Prodromos]

Lies.
As always your post is fact -free.

There were loads of terrorist incidents of Arab origin and otherwise. Here's just a handful.

You think the 70s were the good old days?

[Odenat]

Odenat said "And how will we do that? How many Muslim countries invaded by Christians at the last 20 years?"
When Gaiten responds with a denial, why are the usual suspects bringing up the Crusades? Did the Crusades happen in the last twenty years?

You know, since 1980, USA bombed and invaded 14 different Muslim countries! Can you imagine that? This means USA attacks to a Muslim country once in 2,5 years! I don't know how many countries Europeans invaded and bombed.

And then, we have here Westerners saying Muslims are evil and uncivilized. Well, if you get invaded once in 2 years, it's hard to built a civilization.

https://theintercept.com/2014/11/06/...ed-since-1980/

[Meebleborp]

Yup, also everyone selling weapons to you. Like the fact the majority of those countries have mainly Russian weapons. And China is getting into the market. But someow it's all the West's fault that AKs and RPG-7s are all over the place.

Surely you aren't arguing that 'Russia and China do it too so that makes it okay'? Russia especially is culpable, but has managed to avoid most of the anti-Western backlash by being the lesser of evils. After all, they're not the ones in Afghanistan these days.

Given the Cold War it wasn't the case with half those dictators. You can cite Iran for the West actively sabotaging a democratic development. But there were a lot of dictators in the region the West wanted nothing to do with but somehow still got into power and remained there for decades. Saddam got a buckload of money from the west... but his regime was based on a socialist ideology like the Syrian one and they essentially bought him off the Soviet Union.

What exactly is your argument here? Something, something, Red Scare?

Lybia, Mali, now the Iraqi government, the Syrian rebels wanted us to bomb Assad. Pakistan and Yemen essentially made agreements for the US to bomb people in their country. So yes, I'm serious. Other countries also asked for Western military aid to combat extremists = trainers, equipment and bombs.

Ah, now it comes into light. So you believe that the US bombed/invaded these places simply at the request of a few dissidents, not because it had something to gain? That countries like Pakistan and Yemen made these agreements happily and under no significant pressure? That authoritarian regimes asking for military aid are doing so to help in the 'war on terror', and not so they can more easily silence those rebelling against their rule?

Along with the rest of your post, you're completely discounting the effect the balance of power has in world affairs, attempting to draw a false equivalency between states and groups of widely varying influence. You condemn the people of these countries to ruin while absolving their killers, all because their governments accede in the face of the world's superpower and the bulk of the world's military power (NATO). And what would you have them do instead? The precedents set in Afghanistan and Iraq have sent a clear message: allow us to prosecute our war within your borders, or you become part of it.

All you're doing here is blaming the victim. Whether or not you hide behind choice words from irrelevant dissident groups (many of which, like the Iraqi National Congress, were organized by the West in the first place), rebel factions, or threatened leaders to do so, it's one and the same.