Tolkien Magic

[dfool06]

As the title suggest in this thread we can discuss the nature of magic found in the Tolkien universe, how we can incorporate them (if possible)within this mod.
But first I think we should first know the real nature and role of magic within Arda.

The difference between the magic found in other fantasy universe and Tolkien’s is that most magic in other fantasy universes are considered to be powers dealing with the occult and are powered by mana or other sources of power. In Tolkien’s universe magic are not considered magic at all but rather their nature can be compared to art, skill and knowledge. In other words Tolkien magic is much more conservative IMHO.

I know that some of you might disagree with the idea of magic right away and would argue that it is not altogether needed in this mod and it is difficult to incorporate since magical powers are not present in the original Attila game. To that I will answer that the Tolkien universe is categorized as fantasy and that magic in any form should be present. It is undeniably being mentioned throughout the books and if there is a way to incorporate them in this mod I think the Dev Team should.

I have little idea about modding games but I think I understand the principle behind the process. Of course this is just a suggestion and a guess.

I humbly propose the following mechanics to be considered by the Dev team.

GENERALS USING MAGICAL ABILITIES
What could be more magical in the LotR than the Istari, they are called “wizards” after all.

I propose for Saruman and Gandalf to project their signature moves like the Fireball, Ray of light (the one that Gandalf used against the Nazgul when he rescued the survivors of the Osgiliath garrison).
How to make this possible? Well here is my guess (I don’t know if this is possible).

1. Take one missile throwing unit from Attila, like javelin throwers or better yet naphtha throwers
2. Add a captain within that unit and change their models, appearance or design of the general unit, in this case Saruman or Gandalf and their corresponding bodyguards.
3. Change the look of their projectiles from javelins into fireballs or white ray of light.
4. Increase the stats (HP, armor, attack, so on) of this unit. And to not make if over powered just limit the number of ammo to 1 or 2 volleys.
5. Since this is a former skirmisher unit it means it also has a secondary melee weapon, change this weapon into swords and again increase its damage stats.

If everything works we can have Saruman with his bodyguards throw a volley of fireballs once or twice then change into their secondary weapons for melee combat.

Of course this is just my speculation. I have no idea if this is possible.

UNITS WITH ABILITIES
Another way that magic is portrayed in the Tolkien universe is the creation and use of items of power like rings, blades, palantir and so on. Some units in Attila have abilities and attributes that provides buffs for them or to their allies. IMHO I think we can utilize his feature as well.

May I propose the following units;

FEANORIAN/ NOLDORIN LAMP BEARERS
Faction: Lindon or Imlandris
Weapons: single handed strait sword on one hand and an elvish looking glowing lamp on the other.
Armor: No shields, medium armor

Ability: Embolden – basically it is just the “Rapid Advance” ability from the original game which improves movement speed.

Attribute: Light of Valinor: it’s the “Encourage” attribute from the original game. Improves the morale of nearby friendly units for a certain period of time.
2^nd attribute: Scare -frightens evil orc units.

Description: Emboldened by the light they carry from Valinor these warriors fearlessly rush into battle in defense of their homes and kin. The sight of the glowing crystals that contains light from the undying lands gives hope to other elves and scares orcs. I figured that maybe the Team can modify some torches and change then into elvish looking lamps that glows bright white.
-----------------
ELVEN MISTRELS
Faction: Possibly all elven factions
Weapon: 2 handed spears
Armor: No shield, padded or thick clothing armor
Ability: Healing Hymn – it’s the “Resistant to Fatigue” they can’t feel fatigue

Attribute: Elven Resolve – it’s the “Steady” attribute from the original game. Adds defense but can’t move.

Description: Elven songs holds power and these elves are sometimes called upon to aid their brethren on the battlefield.
---------------
LORE MASTERS
These are the same units from the Imlandris unit roster reveal. I’m not sure if they already have but if not then I humbly propose that they should have these.

Ability: Battle Prowess – “Frenzy” improves melee attack damage

Attribute: Immune to Fear – cannot be frightened by enemy Scare ability.

I have other units for Numenorians, Black Numenorians and Orks but I'm not sure if they are possible to make so let me know first. These are just samples.
So what you guys think?

[Alkar]

As the title suggest in this thread we can discuss the nature of magic found in the Tolkien universe, how we can incorporate them (if possible)within this mod.
But first I think we should first know the real nature and role of magic within Arda.

The difference between the magic found in other fantasy universe and Tolkien’s is that most magic in other fantasy universes are considered to be powers dealing with the occult and are powered by mana or other sources of power. In Tolkien’s universe magic are not considered magic at all but rather their nature can be compared to art, skill and knowledge. In other words Tolkien magic is much more conservative IMHO.

I know that some of you might disagree with the idea of magic right away and would argue that it is not altogether needed in this mod and it is difficult to incorporate since magical powers are not present in the original Attila game. To that I will answer that the Tolkien universe is categorized as fantasy and that magic in any form should be present. It is undeniably being mentioned throughout the books and if there is a way to incorporate them in this mod I think the Dev Team should.

I have little idea about modding games but I think I understand the principle behind the process. Of course this is just a suggestion and a guess.

I humbly propose the following mechanics to be considered by the Dev team.

GENERALS USING MAGICAL ABILITIES
What could be more magical in the LotR than the Istari, they are called “wizards” after all.

I propose for Saruman and Gandalf to project their signature moves like the Fireball, Ray of light (the one that Gandalf used against the Nazgul when he rescued the survivors of the Osgiliath garrison).
How to make this possible? Well here is my guess (I don’t know if this is possible).

1. Take one missile throwing unit from Attila, like javelin throwers or better yet naphtha throwers
2. Add a captain within that unit and change their models, appearance or design of the general unit, in this case Saruman or Gandalf and their corresponding bodyguards.
3. Change the look of their projectiles from javelins into fireballs or white ray of light.
4. Increase the stats (HP, armor, attack, so on) of this unit. And to not make if over powered just limit the number of ammo to 1 or 2 volleys.
5. Since this is a former skirmisher unit it means it also has a secondary melee weapon, change this weapon into swords and again increase its damage stats.

If everything works we can have Saruman with his bodyguards throw a volley of fireballs once or twice then change into their secondary weapons for melee combat.

Of course this is just my speculation. I have no idea if this is possible.

UNITS WITH ABILITIES
Another way that magic is portrayed in the Tolkien universe is the creation and use of items of power like rings, blades, palantir and so on. Some units in Attila have abilities and attributes that provides buffs for them or to their allies. IMHO I think we can utilize his feature as well.

May I propose the following units;

FEANORIAN/ NOLDORIN LAMP BEARERS
Faction: Lindon or Imlandris
Weapons: single handed strait sword on one hand and an elvish looking glowing lamp on the other.
Armor: No shields, medium armor

Ability: Embolden – basically it is just the “Rapid Advance” ability from the original game which improves movement speed.

Attribute: Light of Valinor: it’s the “Encourage” attribute from the original game. Improves the morale of nearby friendly units for a certain period of time.
2^nd attribute: Scare -frightens evil orc units.

Description: Emboldened by the light they carry from Valinor these warriors fearlessly rush into battle in defense of their homes and kin. The sight of the glowing crystals that contains light from the undying lands gives hope to other elves and scares orcs. I figured that maybe the Team can modify some torches and change then into elvish looking lamps that glows bright white.
-----------------
ELVEN MISTRELS
Faction: Possibly all elven factions
Weapon: 2 handed spears
Armor: No shield, padded or thick clothing armor
Ability: Healing Hymn – it’s the “Resistant to Fatigue” they can’t feel fatigue

Attribute: Elven Resolve – it’s the “Steady” attribute from the original game. Adds defense but can’t move.

Description: Elven songs holds power and these elves are sometimes called upon to aid their brethren on the battlefield.
---------------
LORE MASTERS
These are the same units from the Imlandris unit roster reveal. I’m not sure if they already have but if not then I humbly propose that they should have these.

Ability: Battle Prowess – “Frenzy” improves melee attack damage

Attribute: Immune to Fear – cannot be frightened by enemy Scare ability.

I have other units for Numenorians, Black Numenorians and Orks but I'm not sure if they are possible to make so let me know first. These are just samples.
So what you guys think?

Really nice, except the Light of Valinor lived on only in the Silmarils, and I believe more focus needs to be placed on hero units, such as Glorfindel, rather than units. Gandalf's blast of power should make him exhausted after a few blasts, and have quite a long reload, but it doesn't have limited ammo (ammo as in energy).

[dfool06]

Feanorian lamps: http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/F%C3%ABanorian_lamps

https://www.google.com.ph/search?q=f...HcoaCsMQsAQIIA

As the name suggest, it is spectulated that Feanor made these lamps as well since he discovered the skill on how to trap light into gems and crystals (the Silmarils). I think these lamps are lesser forms or prototypes for the Silmarils. They are made in Valinor so where does their light come from then?

[Alkar]

Feanorian lamps: http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/F%C3%ABanorian_lamps

https://www.google.com.ph/search?q=f...HcoaCsMQsAQIIA

As the name suggest, it is spectulated that Feanor made these lamps as well since he discovered the skill on how to trap light into gems and crystals (the Silmarils). I think these lamps are lesser forms or prototypes for the Silmarils. They are made in Valinor so where does their light come from then?

Not from the Two Trees. That was the entire tragedy of The Silmarillion, the fact that the Light could not be taken from the Silmarils because of the greed of Feanor.

[Tinteex]

I Really like your ideas, smart and "easy"

[dfool06]

I Really like your ideas, smart and "easy"

Thank you kind sir

So does this mean that they are possible? If so then think of the possibilities, maybe we can have trolls throwing rocks or orcs or Ents throwing rocks.

I was thinking that skirmisher units have an awkward animation so maybe the Dev team can use Roman Legion units instead. The throwing pilla can be change into fireballs or something else.

[Commissar Caligula_]

Magical fireballs and trolls/ents throwing huge rocks is possible. I'm not sure whether the stones would scale up with the unit size, as some missile weapons do, if so you could have ent sized super boulders lols.
You can change the visual effects given off by things whilst flying and exploding such as trails/particle effects.
For magic, you'd either give the unit a really long reload time (but would moving/melee combat reset that timer?), or give it really low ammunition, but that ability to regen ammo.

The explosions aren't as epic as Rome 2, but they're ok.