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Thread: Are the Saxons richer than Bill Gates? They're all wearing King's helmets!

  1. #21

    Default Re: Are the Saxons richer than Bill Gates? They're all wearing King's helmets!

    The Saxons spoke Old English when they arrived in Britain, so presumably they called themselves Saxons when they still spoke Saxon?

  2. #22
    Tryggvi's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Are the Saxons richer than Bill Gates? They're all wearing King's helmets!

    Prince Richard, do you mean the Anglo-Saxons or the Saxons in particular?

  3. #23

    Default Re: Are the Saxons richer than Bill Gates? They're all wearing King's helmets!

    People who invaded England in the 5th century.

  4. #24
    Charerg's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Are the Saxons richer than Bill Gates? They're all wearing King's helmets!

    I'm pretty sure "Old Saxon" (Sahsisk) refers to the language spoken within Saxony during the early Middle Ages (8th -12th century). I doubt we know exactly how the 5th century dialect the Anglo-Saxon invaders of Britannia spoke sounded like, but wikipedia puts it as "Primitive Saxon", belonging to the Ingaevonic branch of Germanic languages.
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    Default Re: Are the Saxons richer than Bill Gates? They're all wearing King's helmets!

    Saxones, Jutes, Anglii, Ebdani/Hiberi, Frisii, Scotti, Picti, etc.

    That's a long and varied list.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Are the Saxons richer than Bill Gates? They're all wearing King's helmets!

    Prince Richard , I guess, as it were different tribes, some of them called themselves Saxons, some - Angles, but more likely they use names of lesser realms they had founded.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Are the Saxons richer than Bill Gates? They're all wearing King's helmets!

    Doesn't mean they automatically changed their languages?

  8. #28

    Default Re: Are the Saxons richer than Bill Gates? They're all wearing King's helmets!

    Quote Originally Posted by Charerg View Post
    I'm pretty sure "Old Saxon" (Sahsisk) refers to the language spoken within Saxony during the early Middle Ages (8th -12th century). I doubt we know exactly how the 5th century dialect the Anglo-Saxon invaders of Britannia spoke sounded like, but wikipedia puts it as "Primitive Saxon", belonging to the Ingaevonic branch of Germanic languages.
    Wrong, wrong, wrong. Old English (Ænglisc, Anglisc, Englisc) or Anglo-Saxon[2] is the earliest historical form of the English language, spoken in England and southern and eastern Scotland in the early Middle Ages. It was brought to Great Britain by Anglo-Saxon settlers probably in the mid 5th century, and the first Old English literary works date from the mid 7th century. Old Saxon was spoken by people living near the Rhine nearly 400 years after the invasion of Britain.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Are the Saxons richer than Bill Gates? They're all wearing King's helmets!

    Prince Richard, their languages were already close-related West Germanic dialects that had quite quickly merged into the one language that became to be called Aenglisc a couple centuries later. It's seems, you mix language and it's name.
    Charerg is pretty right.
    I doubt we know exactly how the 5th century dialect the Anglo-Saxon invaders of Britannia spoke sounded like, but wikipedia puts it as "Primitive Saxon", belonging to the Ingaevonic branch of Germanic languages.
    Well, there were the closely-related West Germanic dialects that had quite quickly developed into Anglo-Saxon. Of course, the Anglo-Saxon, as it's described in popular manuals (as far as I see), is the late form. The early form, fpr example, hadn't <ch> and <sh> sounds.

  10. #30

    Default Re: Are the Saxons richer than Bill Gates? They're all wearing King's helmets!

    But that can't be right, the 5th century Saxons who gave their names to places have ch sounds.

  11. #31
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    Default Re: Are the Saxons richer than Bill Gates? They're all wearing King's helmets!

    Prince Richard, that <ch> had developed later. Names change too.

  12. #32

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    Source?

    I doubt it. Also, Anglo-Saxon isn't a language? Ric was certainly pronounced rich, and Ceorl like Chey-orl.
    Last edited by Finlander; March 23, 2016 at 05:09 PM. Reason: merged

  13. #33
    Charerg's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Are the Saxons richer than Bill Gates? They're all wearing King's helmets!

    Well, I should clarify that "Primitive Saxon" only applies to the Saxons, the Angles supposedly spoke "Primitive Anglic" during the Migration Period. Although apparently it is thought that the Anglo-Frisian languages could have already underwent the palatalization of k by this date (at least that's the impression I get from wikipedia).
    Last edited by Charerg; March 23, 2016 at 04:53 PM.
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  14. #34
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    Default Re: Are the Saxons richer than Bill Gates? They're all wearing King's helmets!

    Charerg, pages 261-262.
    It's quite obvious that the whole question is contoversial. However, the discussion is about the time of changing [k] > [k'] > [ch]. And it's quite unbelievable that Saxons had already undergone the 3rd stage just arriving to Britain.

    Prince Richard, as I can see, you hardly know even the basic terms. May be, you'd better provide sources for your opinions?

  15. #35

    Default Re: Are the Saxons richer than Bill Gates? They're all wearing King's helmets!

    Basic terms of what?

    When they arrived they spoke Aenglisc, Anglo-Saxon is not a language but a general term for the Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Frisians, Danes, Franks who arrived in Britain.

    Aenglisc was pronounced Anglish. There are Saxons from 470-530 who gave their names to places, place-names that have survived as being pronounced Ch, it would be illogical for that to happen if they were pronounced k or s. A good example is Cerdicesleag, named after Cerdic during his lifetime. It is now called Charford (Cerdic's ford). If his name was not pronounced as chair-ditch but more like serdick or kerdick, it would be known as Karford or Sarford.

    Also, you know what? No. You just called them opinions and haven't even given any sources yourself, so no.

  16. #36

    Default Re: Are the Saxons richer than Bill Gates? They're all wearing King's helmets!

    Calling their language, whatever it may be, "Anglo-Saxon" is like going to Australia and saying you speak "Australia".

  17. #37
    Charerg's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Are the Saxons richer than Bill Gates? They're all wearing King's helmets!

    "Anglo-Saxon" is sometimes used as a synonym for Old English, and there's no confusion here that it was his meaning. What exactly do you mean that "they" spoke Aenglisc? That Old English was already spoken by the Angles in the 5th century, the palatalization of k had occurred in 5th century Anglic, or that the Saxons spoke Old English when they arrived in Britain?

    If we're speaking of the Saxons, it seems clear that the palatalization occurred at a later date, as the continental Saxon dialect never underwent palatalization of k as far as I know (and therefore this is unlikely to have been the case for the 5th century Saxon dialect).
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  18. #38

    Default Re: Are the Saxons richer than Bill Gates? They're all wearing King's helmets!

    C was pronounced ch. I've no idea what "palatization of k" is.

  19. #39

    Default Re: Are the Saxons richer than Bill Gates? They're all wearing King's helmets!

    Also, it seems unlikely a saxon got up one morning and said "I hate saying keese, I think I'll call it cheese."

  20. #40

    Default Re: Are the Saxons richer than Bill Gates? They're all wearing King's helmets!

    Change the thread's name to "The Languages of the Saxons and Anglo-Saxons". I am quite disappointed, I expected more information on the helmets...anyways enough language and more helmets!

    I can't seem to find any information on wither Vikings wore a similar type of helmet. Is it exclusively Saxon? I doubt that Vikings would wear something like that (at least on their early days) since they mostly raided villages and monasteries, which were poorly defended, thus it wasn't necessary to wear much armor if any.



    These Look very similar to the one above in terms of design

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