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Thread: The Franks: Axemen to Knights?

  1. #61
    DaniCatBurger's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: The Franks: Axemen to Knights?

    [The illustration indicates by the direction of the boots that the footmen are fleeing already. They are looking back in the direction of their pursuer, the horseman while they stumble and understand that they will be brought down any moment. It's a dramatic scene put in an allegory. The virtue of knighthood overcomes the lack of virtues, personalised in the confrontation of a noble horseman with the lower ranking footmen. A good and brave man realises what is his nature. The rabble runs away and still achieves nothing. I think that is a bit how one could interpret the illustration.]
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    I take that interpretation back as in the other manuscripts the bad habits (the footmen) seem already on the ground. A revised interpretation would then go more into the direction of a depiction of the victorious nature of virtue, like the charge of the knight that results in heaps of slain so the victory of the positive virtuous over the negative virtuous.
    Last edited by DaniCatBurger; April 06, 2016 at 06:41 PM.
    שנאה היא לא ערך, גזענות היא לא הדרך




  2. #62
    +Marius+'s Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: The Franks: Axemen to Knights?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaniCatBurger View Post
    The illustration indicates by the direction of the boots that the footmen are fleeing already.
    I disagree, the legs are that way because they are falling down and being trampled.

    Their torsos are clearly facing forwards, just look at their arm positions(elbows, shoulders, mitten of the third guy).

  3. #63
    DaniCatBurger's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: The Franks: Axemen to Knights?

    Well, that is certainly a possible interpretation.

    There are similar illustrations in other manuscripts of the poem. One should compare these.

    The bad habits (the footmen) look all a bit "uncomfortable".

    http://www.wgd.materiale-textkulture...motiv.php?m=95
    Last edited by DaniCatBurger; April 06, 2016 at 05:58 PM.
    שנאה היא לא ערך, גזענות היא לא הדרך




  4. #64
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    Default Re: The Franks: Axemen to Knights?

    Quote Originally Posted by +Marius+ View Post
    I disagree, the legs are that way because they are falling down and being trampled.

    Their torsos are clearly facing forwards, just look at their arm positions(elbows, shoulders, mitten of the third guy).
    I agree.

    Look I can see the argument that its possible the whole image is a symbolic depiction, rather like this:


    Great Britain did not send lion assassins to slash Hitler in his dressing room (a pity, that would've been awesome: they could have posted them via a neutral country, then when they arrived on Hitler's doorstep...).

    However given there are other illustrations in illuminated works that do depict demonstrably factual elements I think we can consider the image as valid for discussion.
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  5. #65
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    Default Re: The Franks: Axemen to Knights?

    @ Cyclops: Hitler was prepared for such hairy assassins, guess why he always had his German Shepard Bodyguard (Blondi) around :-D

  6. #66
    Charerg's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: The Franks: Axemen to Knights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magister Militum Flavius Aetius View Post
    He does state it's for usage with the lance. Yes.
    To return to the neck loops for horses intended to be used with a lance (reported in Maurice's Strategikon, ca. 600 AD), I wonder if Maurice specifies if these were indeed used in the charge?

    I ask because one possibility that springs to mind is that the neck loops could have been used for "stowing" the lance while the horseman was using his bow. This is after all Byzantine cavalry we are talking about, and they were heavily influenced by steppe tactics/equipment during this era.
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  7. #67

    Default Re: The Franks: Axemen to Knights?

    A disciplined, well armed and trained infantry force can destroy any cavalry foolish enough to remain engaged, something that you'd not find in levies.
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  8. #68
    Magister Militum Flavius Aetius's Avatar δούξ θρᾳκήσιου
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    Default Re: The Franks: Axemen to Knights?

    I ask because one possibility that springs to mind is that the neck loops could have been used for "stowing" the lance while the horseman was using his bow. This is after all Byzantine cavalry we are talking about, and they were heavily influenced by steppe tactics/equipment during this era.
    The lance had a leather thong (not like that you sickos) to be shouldered and worn across the back.

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