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Thread: What's beyond this universe?

  1. #1

    Default What's beyond this universe?

    Salve all!

    What is beyond the whole universe?Is there any other universe or what else could be??There isn't anything without end and if we suppose there's no end to universe,how can it be??Is the whole universe a sort of matrix that holds a very important truth hidden from mankind or any other living being?Or may be extraterrestrial beings know about it

    http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/newton...ron/AST224.HTM

    Whoever will explain me the concept of what's actually beyond our universe will get a coffee cup,a cookie and +1 rep.
    I AM TOOOO MUCH EAGER TO KNOW ABOUT IT.

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    Please don't move it to science section as that receives already too less attention.In other words,please let it be a more general discussion.
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  2. #2
    Lusted's Avatar Look to the stars
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    Default Re: What's beyond this universe?

    Moved to the Them Devia as the Questions and Suggestions forum is not the correct place for topics like this.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: What's beyond this universe?

    Sorry Lusted.Thought i am in Thema Devia
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    imb39's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: What's beyond this universe?

    who knows? if there is an end to the universe, can we comprehend it?

  5. #5

    Default Re: What's beyond this universe?

    Quote Originally Posted by imb39 View Post
    who knows? if there is an end to the universe, can we comprehend it?
    But may be there's an 'astro-scientist' among the members who has a greater knowledge than us,a knowledge far exceeding just assumptions and a knowledge hidden from the smallest minds on earth viz, we the normal and ordinary people.
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  6. #6

    Default Re: What's beyond this universe?

    This seems to have almost more philosophical connotations to me.

    But in a purely scientific sense I do believe the commonly accepted theorum is that the universe is a constantly expanding medium (resultant of the 'Big Bang'). A common misconception would be that the sun is the center of the universe, which is most certainly not the case. Rather its but the center of one galaxy of (quite possibly) millions.

    Scientists have I believe been able to more or less pinpoint what they believe to be the center or origin of the universe basing calculations on the current rate of expansion as well as the assumption that this rate follows a normal exponential decrease. So assuming we used our current location in the universe as the 'outer edge' we could say how big the known universe is, but as its highly unlikely we are that outer edge I guess its near impossible to say how big the universe as a whole is.

    Someone else (gosh I almost want to say Galileo or Copernicus, but I could be way off there) that the universe was a massive sphere and that if one traveled quickly enough (ostensibly you would need to go a fair bit faster than the speed of light) you could travel backwards through time. Theoretically. As for how that pertains to your question, well I guess it doesnt really. But using that logic if the universe is one massive self contained entity, then perhaps anything outside the bounds of that universe are what people commonly call 'oblivion.' Or perhaps they are all alternate realities, or perhaps we are but one of many other self contained universes, much as you might see one marble in a bag with multiple others. The possibilites are endless, really.
    Last edited by Publius; December 03, 2006 at 12:40 PM.



  7. #7
    Simetrical's Avatar Former Chief Technician
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    Default Re: What's beyond this universe?

    "This forum isn't active enough" isn't a reason not to move stuff there, sorry. Of course it won't be active if you don't post there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Publius View Post
    This seems to have almost more philosophical connotations to me.
    I agree. Anything we can access is, pretty much by definition, in the universe. Or arguably not, but that's more semantics than anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Publius View Post
    A common misconception would be that the sun is the center of the universe
    I hope that's not a common misconception anymore.
    Quote Originally Posted by Publius View Post
    Rather its but the center of one galaxy of (quite possibly) millions.
    It's the center of a planetary system, not a galaxy. A massive black hole is believed to be at the center of the galaxy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Publius View Post
    Scientists have I believe been able to more or less pinpoint what they believe to be the center or origin of the universe basing calculations on the current rate of expansion as well as the assumption that this rate follows a normal exponential decrease.
    No one assumes that the expansion of the universe is slowing down exponentially, that I know of. Whether the expansion of the universe is slowing down or speeding up is still an open question, to my knowledge, and quite a hot one in astronomy because it has an impact on whether the universe will expand forever, achieve a steady state, or eventually collapse.
    Quote Originally Posted by Publius View Post
    So assuming we used our current location in the universe as the 'outer edge' we could say how big the known universe is, but as its highly unlikely we are that outer edge I guess its near impossible to say how big the universe as a whole is.
    The size of the universe is an interesting topic. It's apparently believed to be about 46.5 billion light-years to the edge of the observable universe, beyond which it's relativistically impossible for us to ever see due to lightspeed limits.
    Quote Originally Posted by Publius View Post
    Someone else (gosh I almost want to say Galileo or Copernicus, but I could be way off there) that the universe was a massive sphere and that if one traveled quickly enough (ostensibly you would need to go a fair bit faster than the speed of light) you could travel backwards through time. Theoretically.
    Much later than Galileo or Copernicus, post-Einstein. Technically, anything traveling faster than the speed of light would allow you to travel back in time, kind of, according to special relativity. There are a few problems with this, though: most notably, anything going faster than light ("tachyons") would need to have imaginary mass. Like, the square root of a negative number. No such mass has ever been observed. (See Wikipedia for details)
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  8. #8

    Default Re: What's beyond this universe?

    Maybe the system solar in the big huge universe is as little as an electron for us. Maybe i'm way off by saying that. I don't know. :hmmm:

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    Default Re: What's beyond this universe?

    I'm not going to bother to do the measurements, but that sounds about right, if not too big still.
    1) The creation of the world is the most marvelous achievement imaginable.
    2) The merit of an achievement is the product of (a) its intrinsic quality, and (b) the ability of its creator.
    3) The greater the disability (or handicap) of the creator, the more impressive the achievement.
    4) The most formidable handicap for a creator would be non-existence.
    5) Therefore if we suppose that the universe is the product of an existent creator we can conceive a greater being — namely, one who created everything while not existing.
    6) Therefore, God does not exist.


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    Default Re: What's beyond this universe?

    An Australian Astrophysicist named Paul Davies from the University of Adelaide has published some excellent books about topics such as these. He explains the physics in a fairly complex way and then says "So basically if you had an apple and x, y, z" - it is basically Astrophysics for the Layman. He also considers possibility of God in relation to the universe (although he is not religious).

    I would highly recommend them.

    From memory OUTSIDE the universe (whether expanding to a cold static freeze, or expanding and slowing and then contracting to create another Big Bang) he postulated that there is either

    (1) Nothing, a concept we cannot really comprehend

    (2) Multiverses (other universes).

    It is amazing stuff anyway. There are hundreds of billions of stars in our galaxy, and hundreds of billions of galaxies - as Hubble looks further and further away it only sees more and more galaxies.

    Recently I saw a doco with the furthest ever picture taken of the universe. You know those pics with tens of thousands of stars? Well the furthest point Hubble has seen is hundreds and hundreds of galaxies. It is mind-bogglingly incredible. The scale is........almost beyond belief. It gives me goosebumps just thinking about it.

    Another thing to ponder when discussing this is the Drake equation. Basically it states that if 1 in a thousand stars had planets, and 1 in a thousand planets were habitable planets, and 1 in a thousand habitable planets actually had life on them, and 1 in a thousand of those had intelligent life on them, then there would be X (I think 100,000 or something) planets in our galaxy alone with intelligent life. And to think there are hundreds of billions of galaxies....the theorem convinces me that the universe is absolutely teeming with life, but unfortunately the distances are such that contact is very unlikely.

    (That was not the actual Drake equation - it was something like that. I have it in a book somewhere but couldn't be bothered finding it).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
    Maybe the system solar in the big huge universe is as little as an electron for us. Maybe i'm way off by saying that. I don't know. :hmmm:
    Electrons are, like all elementary particles, points, and have no size. They therefore are not commensurable to things with size. However, for scale, the radius of a hydrogen atom (which consists of two particles and can therefore be assigned size) is 2.5 × 10−11 m, a human is about 1.8 × 100 m (around 1011 times larger), the solar system is somewhere between 1014 and 1016 m wide, and the visible universe is roughly 1025 m wide (around 1010 times larger).
    Quote Originally Posted by boofhead View Post
    Another thing to ponder when discussing this is the Drake equation. Basically it states that if 1 in a thousand stars had planets, and 1 in a thousand planets were habitable planets, and 1 in a thousand habitable planets actually had life on them, and 1 in a thousand of those had intelligent life on them, then there would be X (I think 100,000 or something) planets in our galaxy alone with intelligent life. And to think there are hundreds of billions of galaxies....the theorem convinces me that the universe is absolutely teeming with life, but unfortunately the distances are such that contact is very unlikely.

    (That was not the actual Drake equation - it was something like that. I have it in a book somewhere but couldn't be bothered finding it).
    The Drake equation has far too many unknown variables to be of any practical predictive use. We have very little idea how easy it is for intelligent life to arise, but it's probably a lot less likely than one in a thousand.
    Last edited by Simetrical; December 05, 2006 at 01:13 AM.
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    Default Re: What's beyond this universe?

    Is there even an end to the universe?
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  13. #13

    Default Re: What's beyond this universe?

    The Uinverse is a female dragon (chinese).

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    Default Re: What's beyond this universe?

    Look up the string-theory.

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    Default Re: What's beyond this universe?

    If you mean 'beyond' in the sense of if you had a spaceship and kept on travelling outward to the end of the universe-bubble, the answer is 'nothing', because the question implies space and volume dimensions, and space for things to be in is a concept that only has meaning within our perceptions of our four-dimensional reality - there is no 'space' or volume 'beyond' the limits of the universe, so there can't 'be' anything there, anymore than there could have been something that happened 'before' the Big Bang, since 'time' had no meaning then and causation, before-and-after, was inapplicable.

    If you mean 'beyond' in the philosophical sense of what is beyond the limits of human sense - of what we can see and feel and detect through mechanical observations - there is simply no point in even asking the question, because it is necessarily ineffable and beyond human knowledge. You can't know what is 'beyond' - if you could then it wouldn't truly be 'beyond', it would just be a part of our universe that was very hard to reach (rather than impossible).

    The solution is: Just don't worry about it. You cannot understand it, or affect it in any way, so just let it sort itself out.
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    Default Re: What's beyond this universe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cluny the Scourge View Post
    If you mean 'beyond' in the sense of if you had a spaceship and kept on travelling outward to the end of the universe-bubble, the answer is 'nothing', because the question implies space and volume dimensions, and space for things to be in is a concept that only has meaning within our perceptions of our four-dimensional reality - there is no 'space' or volume 'beyond' the limits of the universe, so there can't 'be' anything there, anymore than there could have been something that happened 'before' the Big Bang, since 'time' had no meaning then and causation, before-and-after, was inapplicable.

    If you mean 'beyond' in the philosophical sense of what is beyond the limits of human sense - of what we can see and feel and detect through mechanical observations - there is simply no point in even asking the question, because it is necessarily ineffable and beyond human knowledge. You can't know what is 'beyond' - if you could then it wouldn't truly be 'beyond', it would just be a part of our universe that was very hard to reach (rather than impossible).

    The solution is: Just don't worry about it. You cannot understand it, or affect it in any way, so just let it sort itself out.
    If we never question those things, we will never know what the possiblilities are. If we don't question the "beyond" we will never know which beyonds are not, in fact, beyond.
    "The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing." -Socrates
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  17. #17

    Default Re: What's beyond this universe?

    That will come about the natural step-by-step progression of scientific inquiry. Broad sweeping semi-theological Philip Pullman stuff like 'What's beyond our universe' helps New Age con-men sell books off the 'Mind, Body and Spirit' shelves in bookshops, but that's all.
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    Default Re: What's beyond this universe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cluny the Scourge View Post
    That will come about the natural step-by-step progression of scientific inquiry. Broad sweeping semi-theological Philip Pullman stuff like 'What's beyond our universe' helps New Age con-men sell books off the 'Mind, Body and Spirit' shelves in bookshops, but that's all.
    The natural step-by-step progression of scientific inquiry is questioning. Perhaps not questioning on the level of "broad sweeping semi-theological stuff", but questioning non-the-less. And if we are to question in the first place, we need to maintain an open mind toward possibilities. Yes, this question "What's beyond our universe?" seems quite impossible to answer, but if we are to advance in any kind of direction we must ask all questions. And who are we or anyone to decide which questions are relevant or not. Perhaps this question will be THE question to answer in the future. We must not allow our scientific methods to become so blinded by the here and now that we forget to think about the future near and far and the past near and far. Although many people would say my perspective on quetioning is pointless, perhaps only to them in the here and now it is. But I think we must question everything, even the FACTS. I'm not saying we should doubt everything, but what I am saying is that we should always look at the possibilities of anything and everything... only then can we truly understand something.
    "The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing." -Socrates
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  19. #19
    Simetrical's Avatar Former Chief Technician
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    Default Re: What's beyond this universe?

    Quote Originally Posted by greek302 View Post
    Is there even an end to the universe?
    There's an end to the visible universe. There's probably an end to the universe as a whole, too.
    Quote Originally Posted by turtle View Post
    The natural step-by-step progression of scientific inquiry is questioning. Perhaps not questioning on the level of "broad sweeping semi-theological stuff", but questioning non-the-less. And if we are to question in the first place, we need to maintain an open mind toward possibilities. Yes, this question "What's beyond our universe?" seems quite impossible to answer, but if we are to advance in any kind of direction we must ask all questions. And who are we or anyone to decide which questions are relevant or not. Perhaps this question will be THE question to answer in the future. We must not allow our scientific methods to become so blinded by the here and now that we forget to think about the future near and far and the past near and far. Although many people would say my perspective on quetioning is pointless, perhaps only to them in the here and now it is. But I think we must question everything, even the FACTS. I'm not saying we should doubt everything, but what I am saying is that we should always look at the possibilities of anything and everything... only then can we truly understand something.
    The difficulty is that the question is not reasonably well defined. You couldn't possibly come up with any tests for it. By contrast, a real (even if speculative) theory such as string theory at least has the potential, given enough effort, to generate testable predictions.

    There's no such potential in a question as vague as "what's beyond this universe", if we take "the universe" to mean "that which we can potentially perceive". If you can't perceive something, ipso facto you can't test predictions about it.
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  20. #20
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    Default Re: What's beyond this universe?

    the parallel cowboy universe

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