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Thread: LEGION & AOR CHANGES and EXPLANATION

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    Default LEGION & AOR CHANGES and EXPLANATION

    The purpose of this thread will be to inform the prospective player of Roma Surrectum about the recruitment and AOR system in this mod. It will be updated regularly as I get the information compiled...so check here often.

    Romans:

    There are effectively Five Phases that lead up to being able to recruit the Imperial Legions of Rome, and much has changed in Patch 8, so read carefully:

    First Phase:
    The Roman Republican Legion, consisting of Hastati, Principe, Triarii and support units is the 1st phase of the Roman Army. There are 3 Legions, of which you can recruit as many as you want:

    Republican Legion I....can only be built in Rome, and symbolizes the Senate.
    Republican Legion II can be recruited anywhere in Italy, up to a line where Mediolanium and Patavium are (but not in those regions).
    Republican Legion III can be recruited outside Italy only, and only in the designated Roman military AORs you'll see below.
    (You will be able to recruit Velites, Light Cavalry and Town Watch everywhere.)

    Second Phase:
    Republican Legion I VE- recruitable in Italy only
    Republican Legion II VE- recruitable in all AOR Military Bases outside Italy.

    As you build up your regions and you build an 'Urban Barracks' in them, you'll start seeing the 'Very Early Legionaries'.
    They are a 'transitional unit' between the old Hastati, principe, triarii legions and the later named Legions. This unit is basically a slighly upgraded Principe. He is a 'Legionary', and this Legion has a 1st cohort and Eagle, but they lack some of the discipline and training of those who would follow them. They cannot form the testudo. This is a pre-marian reforms unit, so when the Marian Reforms occur, these and all remaining Hastati, Principe, etc. units will disappear from the recruitment ques. (The soldiers you have in the field, of course, will remain.) There is no 'House Rule' on these, except you should only have one 1st Cohort per army.

    Third Phase:
    When the Marian Reforms occur, the first of Rome's named and numbered Legions will appear in any of the regions you control that are listed below. These first Legions, of which there are 13, could also be called 'Consular Legions'. They were the paid army of Rome, and recruited when Rome was still a Republic. These can only be recruited and retrained in the specified areas. However, when the Marian Reforms occur, all pre-Marian Roman units will disappear from the ques and be replaced with various 'Auxilia' units. Auxilia, Light Auxilia, Archers and varius light Cavalry will be available everywhere to recruit. The 'House Rule is ONE EACH of these Legions. (I'll explain later what a Legion is)

    Fourth Phase:
    The Imperial Legions, of which there are 22, will appear in the same ten AOR Bases when you build an 'Urban Barracks'. At this point, all the Legions will be available IF you have a Royal Barracks in each region. The 'House Rule is ONE EACH of these Legions.

    Fifth Phase:
    The Praetorian Legion becomes available in Rome only once you've built the 'Castra Praetorium' in Rome. Praetorian Cavalry will also appear there, and the Praetorian Prefect. The 'House Rule' is TWO of these Legions.

    Early, Consular legions:
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    Recruitment Legion Post Hidden_Resource
    MUNDUS\Big Map MUNDUS\Big Map

    Legio I Germanica , Illyria , Belgica legio3
    Legio II Augusta , Propontis, Tribus_ordovices\Britannia_Superior legio4
    Legio III Gallica, Cisalpine_Gaul, Cappadocia legio2
    Legio III Augusta, Attica , Celtiberia legio10
    Legio V Alaudae , Venetia, Tribus_Nervii\Nervi legio9
    Legio VI Ferrata , Zeugitana\Africa , Armenia_Minor\Cilicia legio8
    Legio VII Claudia Pia Fidelis, Lugdinensis , Dalmatia legio1
    Legio VIII Augusta, Cisalpine_Gaul, Tribus_Volcae\Tuath_Ruteni legio2
    Legio IX Hispaniensis, Illyria , Celtiberia legio3
    Legio X Gemina Pia, Coele_Syria , Ceretania\Ilergetes legio7
    Legio XI Claudia Pia Fidelis, Venetia , Narbonensis legio9
    Legio XIII Gemina, Lugdinensis, Pannonia legio1
    Legio XXII Deiotariana, Mysia, Galatia legio5

    Imperial Legions:
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

    Legio I Italica, Lugdinensis Sequania\Sequani legio1
    Legio I Minverva Pia Fidelis, Cisalpine_Gaul , Tribus_Nervii\Nervi legio2
    Legio I Adiutrix, Mysia , Tribus_Chattii legio5
    Legio II Adiutrix Pia Fidelis, Coele_Syria , Dacia legio7
    Legio II Traiana Fortis, Nile_Delta , Judaea legio6
    Legio III Cyrenaica, Nile_Delta, Nabataea legio6
    Legio III Italica, Illyria, Rhaetia\Helveti legio3
    Legio IV Flavia Felix, Venetia, Tribus_Scordisci\Dardania legio9
    Legio IV Scythica, Propontis , Phoenicia legio4
    Legio V Macedonica, Propontis, Thessalia legio4
    Legio VI Victrix Pia Fidelis, Cisalpine Gaul, Tribus_Brigantes\Britannia_Inferior legio2
    Legio VII Gemina Felix, Attica, Gallaecia legio10
    Legio X Fretensis, Coele_Syria, Judaea legio7
    Legio XII Fulminata, Coele_Syria, Cappadocia legio7
    Legio XIV Gemina Martia Victrix , Mysia, Tribus_Trinovantes\Britannia_Superior legio5
    Legio XV Primigenia , Zeugitana\Africa , Nabataea legio8
    Legio XV Appolinaris, Venetia , Armenia_Minor\Cilicia legio9
    Legio XVI Flavia Firma, Illyria, Phoenicia legio3
    Legio XX Valeria Victrix, Attica , Tribus_Ordovices\Tribus_Silurii legio10
    Legio XXI Rapax (Predator), Nile_Delta, Tribus_Nervii\Nervi legio6
    Legio XXII Primigenia , Lugdinensis, Tribus_Chattii legio1
    Legio XXX Ulpia Victrix, Propontis, Tribus_Nervii\Nervi legio4


    Latium, Rome - Praetorian Legion


    These ten bases will be where all the newest military equipment is available as well; scorpions, repeating ballistas, heavy onagers…the most advanced cavalry such as Legionary cavalry, and several AOR restricted cultural cavalry units like Roman Cataphracts and Roman Gothic Cavalry…the most advanced archers and supporting troops.

    For those of you who have asked...What is a Roman Legion?
    A Legion is an entire Roman Army. It typically consisted of a General, several Cavalry units, one 1st cohort, 9 cohorts, and supporting units such as spear auxilia, auxilia troops, archers, etc.

    My own Legion would consist of:
    1- General
    2- Legionary Cavalry units (and maybe a unit of javelin cavalry)
    2- archer units
    4- Auxilia units (various kinds)
    1- 1st Cohort (which carries the Eagle)
    9- Cohorts

    Of course, it doesn't have to be that many units of each, but that's roughly what the Roman's had.

    YOU CAN TELL IF A LEGION CAN BE RECRUITED IN A REGION BY RIGHT CLICKING THE REGION TO SEE THE NAME. IF IT HAS THIS (L) AFTER THE NAME
    A LEGION CAN BE RECRUITED THERE. I HAD TO REMOVE THE LITTLE SHIELDS IN ORDER TO HAVE THE TOWNS ON THE MAP.

    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    Britons.....FREE PEOPLE

    You actually can't SEE the Britons faction anymore because they are merged into the 'slave' faction....however, they do have different strat banners. Their AOR is much different than any other faction, because it's 'culture AND region specific'. In otherwords, if they own a region at the beginning of the campaign in Northern Europe, the AOR specifically limits them to building Barbarian units, and ONLY in that region. If they do take a another adjacent region, they can build nothing in it at all. Likewise, Greek areas, Eastern, etc. are all controlled in the same way.
    They actually could be a playable faction...but in the future I want to give them better skins and unit cards. Right now they're basically like the slaves for the most part.

    The object of this AOR for Briton is to prevent them from using their region and monetary might to overwhelm all the other factions. Their purpose as an AI faction is just to cause trouble and confusion, and make things harder for all concerned.

    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    All factions listed below can now build their lower end units, and some medium type units, everywhere.
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    Gallia and Germanic Tribes

    Gallia, like all the barbarian cultures in RS, is limited to an area of influence AOR. They can build ALL their units in Britian, Germany, and Gaul....roughly over to about north of Italy (I'll provide a map later). They can also build all their units in the 'military base' AORs (legio1-14), and in any city that was a 'capitol' at the campaign's start. The capitol 'hidden_resource' includes each faction's capitol town\city, and a number of other cities of 'historical importance'. ALL factions can use these to build almost all their units...with a few very obvious exceptions...Syrian Archers, Elephants, Nubian Spearmen, Siclian Infantry, etc. are limited to a geographical area.
    Lower end units available everywhere.
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    Iberia

    Spanish recruitment is essentially limited to Spain and the Military Bases and capitols. Lower end units available everywhere.
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    Dacia

    Dacia is limited to it's starting territories and a few surrounding them, military bases and capitols. Lower end units available everywhere.
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    Scythia

    Scythia is limited to what would be roughly modern-day Russia, military bases and capitols. Lower end units available everywhere.
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    Macedon and Greek

    These two factions are limited to a 'greek' hidden_resource that stretches from Illyria to around Armenia in modern-day Turkey, and from Dacia down to Sparta. Rhodes, Crete, Sicily, one province in Spain and Gaul.....in otherwords, their historical areas of influence. They can also recruit all their units in military bases and capitals. Lower end units available everywhere.

    Parthia, Seleucid, Armenia, Pontus and Pergamum

    These factions use an AOR called 'arab'. It's a big chunk of the eastern part of the map. The AOR mainly limits the building of higher end 'elite type' units. Lower end units available everywhere.

    Carthage and Egypt

    These factions are limited by an AOR called 'south'. They can build anything they want anywhere in Africa, and a few selected regions they started with. Lower end units available everywhere.

    Syracuse and Bosporan

    Syracuse can build anything in Sicily, on any Mediterrainean island, in capitols, in any 'greek' AOR region and military base AOR's. Some lower end units are available everywhere. Same goes for Bosporan.....except a few of their units are available in the 'central' AOR.
    Last edited by dvk901; May 25, 2007 at 12:55 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Pre and Post-Marian Recruitment and AOR in Rom

    Firstly, wow; a lot of effort has been put in to those and I'm sure a lot of people will enjoy the flexibility and depth you've added. But I was just wondering about the following:
    Finally, the last step is one that’s basically paid for. You must build the necessary buildings to gain access to Imperial Legions and all the things that made the Romans a world power. And once you build the military bases, only then do you have it all.
    How will the AI handle this? Because I've allways disliked how early the AI got the Marian reforms; not only because it was unhistorical but becasue Rome would simply explode out of Italy. So my question is, how early will the AI get the ability to build legions compared to before? Becasue I like the idea of a delayed Reform, and can understand the merit of allowing the player to choose, but if it can be brought about by building my fear is that Rome will get it the sane time as in vanilla RTW.
    Last edited by Tyr; December 03, 2006 at 03:30 AM.
    What do we mean by patriotism in the context of our times? I venture to suggest that what we mean is a sense of national responsibility ... a patriotism which is not short, frenzied outbursts of emotion, but the tranquil and steady dedication of a lifetime.

  3. #3
    dvk901's Avatar Consummatum est
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    Default Re: Pre and Post-Marian Recruitment and AOR in Rom

    The Roman recruitment is basically set to limit where they can build these legions. That should help the player NOT playing Rome, because the AI can only build them where I allow it. Also, the Romans won't even be able to build these Legions IN Italy, they'll have to own the settlements above, and have at least an Army Barracks in them to even build the Early Legions...the (E) after a Legion name above means Early.
    Then the AI will have to improve the settlement a ton to build the 'Army Base' for the Imperial Legions to show up at all.
    Even though I haven't hid the fact that I'm a 'Roman Fan', my personal concept of the recruitment in Roma Surrectum was to give any faction a chance to win against all the others. This is 'more' possible, I think, with an AOR that limits everyone. The Romans especially, with their very powerful units, cannot now just build them everywhere as before. Even with the Marian Reforms, they will be severly limited.
    For example, let's say that when the Marian Reforms occur, the Romans hold all of Italy, a good chunk of Gaul, and another area over into Illyria. Assuming they hold Vienna, Mediolanium, Salona and Patavium within those areas...that means they will only be able to build any legions or troops of any value in four places.....none of them in Italy. Meanwhile a German player will be able to build his best troops in every city, perhaps, held in his territorial AOR. That should put the AI Romans, actually, at a disadvantage after the Marian Reforms, because they'll be limited this way, AND forced to protect Italy with those units. The theory in my head, anyway, says this may play out kind of 'historically' for the Romans, and give all the other Nations the advantages they had in real life.
    My impression of the Battle strength of the Romans is also that it's right about where it should be....they win, because they're supposed to win. But they are 'depleted' every time they win. They will be limited in where they can fix this (retrain), and/or reinforce from. That's why I decided to put several Legions in ONE region rather than one in a bunch of regions...and there was another reason that's just eye-candy, I guess. The AI isn't going to know that units from a particular Legion belong together (unless it's smarter than I think), so you may see in an AI Roman army what in fact was reality...several Legions together, or cohorts from each one.
    As far as when the Marian Reforms happen, I agree...they happen way too early...one of our testers even got them in 260BC....that's not what I want. So I'm still working on a theory to delay it even more...it involves the Imperial Palace. I don't know if it's the building tree name 'Imperial_Palace' and 'Italy' that triggers the Reforms, or the description of the building itself. So I'm going to toy with putting buildings in between the pro-consuls palace and the Imperial palace and see what happens. The Imperial Palace means nothing to the other factions, so maybe I can push out the reforms further by adding a 'pseudo_imperial_palace' in between that all the other faction THINK is their Imperial Palace, while the last one...the REAL Imperial Palace, can only be built by Romans in Italy for an un-godly amount of money like 100,000 denarii! (or more).
    Last edited by dvk901; December 03, 2006 at 09:57 AM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Pre and Post-Marian Recruitment and AOR in Rom

    The Roman recruitment is basically set to limit where they can build these legions. That should help the player NOT playing Rome, because the AI can only build them where I allow it.
    This seems to be working in my Bosporan campaign. Here's Rome's empire as of 237BC:



    You can see that while they're doing well, they're not an uber-power yet. In fact Syracuse still controls southern Italy -- I figured that Syracuse would be long gone by now.

    Also interesting to note, the Germans have spread like wildfire across the north, including Britain -- maybe we should make Britain harder to conquer? And the Gauls just got stomped in this campaign. The Greeks in Massilia, the Romans, the Germans, all jumped on them and they never had a chance. I think the Gauls might need to be beefed up. In reality at this point (237BC) they still controlled a huge territory and the Romans hadn't made it out of the Po valley.

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    dvk901's Avatar Consummatum est
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    Default Re: Pre and Post-Marian Recruitment and AOR in Rom

    I think this will change with Patch3....which changes the Roman AOR from the one you're playing. But the Gauls are weird. Sometimes they go crazy in Europe, others they just drop dead. I like the balance I'm seeing though...it appears the Free People are still holding out after 40-some years...that's good! And Carthage is creaping towards war with the Romans...
    As for the germans in Briton, I think the problem there was the fact I forgot to put the right AOR there for them. I had noticed before that their little province in the north never seemed to do anything....the reason was they couldn't build any units. Hopefully that will be fixed somewhat.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Pre and Post-Marian Recruitment and AOR in Rom

    Yes, the balance is definitely an improvement over most if not all other mods I've played -- expansion isn't yet as slow as it was historically, but factions are surviving longer and those that are growing are growing slower -- the 'super' Free Peoples are clearly having a global impact. Look at the Balkans, for example -- still a warzone being fought over by the Greeks, Macedonians, Dacians, Bosporans, and Free Peoples.

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    Default Re: Pre and Post-Marian Recruitment and AOR in Rom

    Quote Originally Posted by cherryfunk View Post
    Yes, the balance is definitely an improvement over most if not all other mods I've played -- expansion isn't yet as slow as it was historically, but factions are surviving longer and those that are growing are growing slower -- the 'super' Free Peoples are clearly having a global impact. Look at the Balkans, for example -- still a warzone being fought over by the Greeks, Macedonians, Dacians, Bosporans, and Free Peoples.
    Yeah, looks pretty impressive. Question...who took Crete? The Free People!!!

  8. #8
    dvk901's Avatar Consummatum est
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    Default Re: Pre and Post-Marian Recruitment and AOR in Rom

    Quote Originally Posted by cherryfunk View Post
    This seems to be working in my Bosporan campaign. Here's Rome's empire as of 237BC:



    You can see that while they're doing well, they're not an uber-power yet. In fact Syracuse still controls southern Italy -- I figured that Syracuse would be long gone by now.

    Also interesting to note, the Germans have spread like wildfire across the north, including Britain -- maybe we should make Britain harder to conquer? And the Gauls just got stomped in this campaign. The Greeks in Massilia, the Romans, the Germans, all jumped on them and they never had a chance. I think the Gauls might need to be beefed up. In reality at this point (237BC) they still controlled a huge territory and the Romans hadn't made it out of the Po valley.
    An interesting thing about this mini-map is that as far as I can tell, with the new AOR, Rome only holds two of the Regions where they would be able to build these Legions..Patavium and Lugdinensus. And if the reforms have occurred for them at this point, those are the only two places they'll be able to build any units of real power. So it should actually slow them down even more.

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