Wonders -- Should they have a bonus or not?

[cherryfunk]

In my Bosporan campaign, as I mentioned in another thread, the Bosporans are doing very well economically, pulling in 15-20,000 denarii each turn. As I get further along and learn just how much the more advanced buildings cost, I'm not as worried about the economy being too strong, because even with all that money I still have to save up for some of the bigger upgrades. I have enough money to keep upgrading, but not enough that I can just buy everything I want.

However, I just captured the Colossus of Rhodes, which gives my naval trade a 40% bonus, and my economy really went through the roof, now averaging 35,000/turn (and this is with a rather modest 17 regions in my kingdom). Pergamum itself is bringing in 10,000 each turn.

I never really liked the Wonder bonuses, they feel a bit too 'gamey' for my tastes -- why would owning a giant statue boost naval trade throughout my entire kingdom? I could see it being a bonus for Rhodes, but there's no way it should have that big an impact across all my regions. Or why would controlling the Tomb of Mausolos at Halicarnassus reduce building construction times 800 miles away in Tanais?




It just makes no logical sense, and it makes no gameplay sense either, not when I was already making so much money. At least in this campaign, it feels like a cheat.

So what do others think? Should the Wonder bonuses be reduced, or eliminated altogether? Or do you prefer them the way they are?

[dvk901]

In my Bosporan campaign, as I mentioned in another thread, the Bosporans are doing very well economically, pulling in 15-20,000 denarii each turn. As I get further along and learn just how much the more advanced buildings cost, I'm not as worried about the economy being too strong, because even with all that money I still have to save up for some of the bigger upgrades. I have enough money to keep upgrading, but not enough that I can just buy everything I want.

However, I just captured the Colossus of Rhodes, which gives my naval trade a 40% bonus, and my economy really went through the roof, now averaging 35,000/turn (and this is with a rather modest 17 regions in my kingdom). Pergamum itself is bringing in 10,000 each turn.

I never really liked the Wonder bonuses, they feel a bit too 'gamey' for my tastes -- why would owning a giant statue boost naval trade throughout my entire kingdom? I could see it being a bonus for Rhodes, but there's no way it should have that big an impact across all my regions. Or why would controlling the Tomb of Mausolos at Halicarnassus reduce building construction times 800 miles away in Tanais?




It just makes no logical sense, and it makes no gameplay sense either, not when I was already making so much money. At least in this campaign, it feels like a cheat.

So what do others think? Should the Wonder bonuses be reduced, or eliminated altogether? Or do you prefer them the way they are?

Uhhh, I didn't even know there WAS a wonder bonus. That screws the economic scheme up bigtime. And I agree.....the only wonder I can think of that should provide a bonus would be 'Pharos Lighthouse'..a building I've added in Patch3. But BUILDING it should have the bonus. I'll see if I can find this and kill it.....unless someone knows offhand?

[Tyr]

I agree, the only reasonalble wonder bonus is that of the Pyramids, which increases the loyalty of egyptian regions under your control. I do think however, they should give some sort of small bonus; to lend some strategic element to capturing them; but nothing as inflated as in vanilla.

[dvk901]

I agree, the only reasonalble wonder bonus is that of the Pyramids, which increases the loyalty of egyptian regions under your control. I do think however, they should give some sort of small bonus; to lend some strategic element to capturing them; but nothing as inflated as in vanilla.

I've searched every file I can think to search in, and cannot find the control for this. The only thing possible (so far) would be to remove them....at least the ridiculous economic ones. I'v found WHAT is given for a bonus, but not how to change it.

[Tyr]

Though I disagree with the unhistorical, abnormal bonuses of wonders, i'd rather have them in the game; than not at all. On a side note; there was a 'proper wonders on the battlefield' mod, so that if you fought by a wonder it would actually appear. I was wondering if you have heard of it, or if it was possible for it to be implemented at all?

[dvk901]

Though I disagree with the unhistorical, abnormal bonuses of wonders, i'd rather have them in the game; than not at all. On a side note; there was a 'proper wonders on the battlefield' mod, so that if you fought by a wonder it would actually appear. I was wondering if you have heard of it, or if it was possible for it to be implemented at all?

If you can find it, I'll have a look at it.

[Elrond]

I think that wonders should have bonuses but only small ones

I wont start making my campaigns untill patch 3 has been released, i am busy anyway trying to fight the changes that are being made to the website (see questions and suggestions subforum)

[Tyr]

If you can find it, I'll have a look at it.

Okay, Ive found it, but I read over it and it actually doesnt seem worth it; you have to remove some resources from the game , and even then you still see two of the same wonders (The actual one you are fighting next to, and one in the distance). So sorry to bring it up, could of been a good addition; but its not all I thought it was.
If you want to know what I mean anyway just out of curiosity:
http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=46085

[dvk901]

I removed the Halicarnassus Mausoleum on the maps. This bonus was the worst of them all in 'gutting' game play. The others aren't near as bad.

[Tyr]

I removed the Halicarnassus Mausoleum on the maps. This bonus was the worst of them all in 'gutting' game play. The others aren't near as bad.

That seems like using a sledge hammer to crack a nut, is there no way the bonuses can be edited? If no is the answer, then maybe you could use a trade resource to 'add' a mausolem building in the same place. That way you could have what it is and a description of it, yet no bonus.

[dvk901]

I'm thinking I'll try to add the Mausoleum as a building later, like I did the 'Pharos'. The bonuses for these wonders is 'hardcoded' (of all things), and you can nothing about them. Why CA did that is beyond me, but this particular bonus for the Mausoleum totally disrupts the whole economic scheme in the area. I tried to think how to negate it, but the bonus applies to ALL buildings and ALL trade for the faction that takes it. It's hardly fair to have such a bonus for a faction that's in that area and can only take it, and if you took it later on and were already having too much money, this would skyrocket income out of sight.
I didn't want to remove it, but this one was ridiculous.

[Tyr]

Did some probing over at the guild, this is what I found:
http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showth...hlight=wonders
Hope it can be of some help; so all wonders can still be ingame.