Results 1 to 3 of 3

Thread: Acquiring Protectorates (and other diplomatic tips)

  1. #1

    Default Acquiring Protectorates (and other diplomatic tips)

    Hi all,

    There has been some discussion over in the Fourth Age: Total War forums that should be of interest to anyone playing RTW.

    Here's the thread: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-protectorates

    A lot of people (myself included) have spent a good deal of time shaking our heads at the seeming silliness of the AI, especially when it comes to diplomacy. A chief frustration has been how to gain things such as military access and protectorates - the holy grail of RTW diplomacy.

    Since that thread began, I've successfully gained 2 protectorates playing as the faction of Dale.


    The main factors seem to be the following:

    1. Play on Medium campaign difficulty. Higher than that, and you'll notice the AI throws armies at you with ridiculous regularity. Fortunately, Medium difficulty seems not to be too easy; many mods (including Fourth Age) are in fact balanced around Medium campaign difficulty.

    2. Have an overwhelming military force. You don't need to go crazy here, but you should outnumber your target handily. I've found that between 2 and 3 stacks focusing on the enemy are enough to get them to cave.

    3. Have a lot of money. This is often a corollary of point #2. But money greases the wheels of RTW diplomacy like nothing else, so you're likely to have better luck no matter what your diplomatic goals if you are rich.

    4. Beat the foe in the field, and besiege their towns. Ensure they have no enemy forces roaming around, and put on the pressure by besieging their cities (and blockading ports, if applicable).

    5. Be patient. Don't necessarily assault all the enemy's settlements right away. Wait several turns, and let their forces dwindle away. The faction may approach you with a diplomat seeking a ceasefire. That is often the chance to counter-offer with a Become Protectorate demand, coupled with an offer of a lot of cash. If that fails, starve out a few of their towns, and keep waiting. From time to time, lift the siege of their capital and send in a diplomat to make an open-ended offer of Map Information, to see what the AI wants. If they counter with an offer of Ceasefire, try for protectorate again.

    6. Be prepared to be generous. If you just took a few towns off the AI, be prepared to hand some of them back (along with cash) as part of the protectorate deal. And be prepared to hand over a lot of money. For my first protectorate, I handed over around 92,000. For my second, around 113,000. In both cases, I basically handed over my entire treasury. It's possible I could have gotten the protectorate by offering less cash, but I wanted to be sure. You'll get it all back next turn with interest anyway.


    So, why is this worth it? The protectorate faction's lands count as your own for the purposes of victory, which is nice provided you can keep them. And, as I explain my experience in the linked thread, protectorates are a great source of income. ALL of the money you offered them as part of the protectorate deal will be returned to you, as well as a big chunk of the AI's own treasury. In my case, after my second protectorate my income from diplomacy/tributes alone was around 250,000. And you'll continue to get extra cash from them as tribute on a regular basis. Gaining a protectorate can be a financial game-changer. Even if the protectorate should fall apart in a few turns, you are likely making much more money off the deal than you would have made just by taking those towns. And if the deal does fail, it'll be easier to beat that faction into submission a second time.

    My own (limited) experience, though, suggests that the protectorate factions are fairly passive. If you maintain a position of strength, you won't invite a betrayal. Keep an eye on your client kingdoms to ensure they don't get any ideas about turning on you. If you see them massing troops in the field or near your borders, try bribing them (which doesn't count as an act of war). If your client kingdom is at war with another faction, great - offer them some money and demand they attack their foe. If it looks like they're losing, help them out. Try to think of your client as a buffer between you and other factions, and use money, military strength, and foreign wars to keep yourselves in good relations.

    One big threat to protectorates is when your client makes alliances with other factions, and then those other factions go to war with you. In such situations, the client may drop its alliance with you, destroying the protectorate. So you must carefully observe the diplomatic situation. If your client has allied itself with a faction that is neutral to you, you want to stay on that faction's good terms. Maybe that means funding the neutral faction's wars elsewhere. Maybe it means gifting your protectorate some lands to create a buffer between you and the neutral faction (since neighboring factions tend to end up at war).


    I hope this will be of interest to those of you who want to explore these aspects of RTW. I've played the game since release, and only recently have I played around with diplomacy in this way. It's a lot of fun, and opens up a whole new way to play.

    Have fun, and good gaming
    One of the most sophisticated Total War modders ever developed...

  2. #2

    Default Re: Acquiring Protectorates (and other diplomatic tips)

    Seems legit. I've never actually tried for Protectorate status in RTW. Though in the XGM mod, the Seleucid's offered me Protectorate status when I was playing as Egypt. To be honest, if some mofo declares war on me, I tend to see red and try to smash as much as their empire as I can in as short a time. Depending on who I am playing as and who my enemy is, this often leads to them feeling my wrath and being wiped out. I imagine, though, going for Protectorate status would be something to attempt if you're taking a more leisurely approach to the game? Perhaps?

  3. #3

    Default Re: Acquiring Protectorates (and other diplomatic tips)

    I think of getting a protectorate as the ideal form of beating that faction. Yes, you can destroy them brick by brick, smash their armies and salt their earth, but forcing them to submit to your overlordship and send you wagons full of gold every turn is better IMO - not least because it often means you can secure a pretty quiet area of the map for yourself. If you destroy the faction altogether, that usually means you end up bordering some *other* jerks who will attack you in a few turns. But with the buffer zone provided by your protectorate, you can take some time to develop or turn your armies elsewhere.

    In my Dale campaign, for example, I have beaten the Chiefdom of North Rhun and the Kingdom of Dorwinion into submission. They have been peaceful client realms for around 60 turns, and guard my eastern and southern borders. In that time, I've made tremendous money, built up my infrastructure, and secured alliances and military access to keep other neighbors (the Beornings) off my back. After clearing the nearby Orc-holds, I have just begun to push westward over the Misty Mountains to send my spears against the upstart Kingdom of Adunabar. If I can keep my protectorates, victory is just 10 settlements away.

    If the AI demands that *you* become its protectorate, it's rarely a long-term thing. I've found that if you agree, they'll attack you pretty much immediately anyway. A rather cheap trick, then, is to counter-demand a bunch of money - like 10,000 - in exchange for agreeing to become their protectorate. They'll give you the cash, attack you (which cancels the protectorate), and now you've got even more money to prosecute the war.

    I'd say yes, if you can get protectorates, it can make for a more leisurely game - although I guess that depends on your position, and your definition of 'leisurely'. In my case, the euphoria of having 2 protectorates is only matched by the anxiety about the prospect of losing them, so I'm constantly checking the diplomatic screen, monitoring my clients' realms for troop buildup, and trying to ensure that I am in good relations with their other allies. If my clients were at war with anyone else (they aren't), I would probably be fighting alongside them, sending troops through their lands and helping them win more territory (which would expand *my* realm and wealth as well).

    The trick seems to be, to some extent, *not* doing the things that you usually do in order to "win" the game. If you quickly seize settlements, blitz through a faction's territory, and don't consider any diplomatic dealings with them, then you won't get a protectorate. Since a lot of us, I assume, have spent a good deal of time trying to figure out how "best" to "win" the campaign, we haven't been in the best position to explore this side of the game.

    Of course, you need a lot of money, too, so some factions you play may be in a poor position to exert that kind of hegemony.
    One of the most sophisticated Total War modders ever developed...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •